Review of Grizzly G0694 Lathe

[Wm Babbitt]

Aloha...
I am a 68 year young Hawaii woodworker/turner who has been turning intermittently for over 50 years. Being a tool junky I try to stretch my budget to get the most value for every expenditure and design, make and refurbish tools to add to my collection. I currently own 5 wood lathes - two older 14" Grizzly's, one of which I have added a electronic variable speed drive. An older Jet model 1438 which I recently acquired via CraigsList. About 6 years ago I designed and built a bowl lathe (see images) because I got tired of leaning over the bed to hollow a vessel.

Recently purchased the Grizzly G0694 monster and have turned a couple of bowls...one on the outboard and two over the bed. The woods were mango, koa, and macadamia nut. All pieces were mounted with faceplates and the tail stock was used whenever possible. The following is my impression of this lathe and experience with the Grizzly support staff.

First the good points:
The lathe is sturdily built and very solid. The size and weight of the tool rest and tail stock eliminates vibration and gives the lathe a real solid feel. The outboard system is also very solid and gives a firm rest for the tool. The power is more than adequate even at the slowest speed. I turned a 36" segmented bowl on the outboard without even a hint of stalling. The spindle has a through opening to attach a vacuum system (haven't done this yet) and the headstock, spindle and bearings are tight and solid. The three speed belt system is relatively easy to change and I have not experienced any slippage...except when I forgot to release the index pin!

Now the shortcomings:
The bolt down system is a pair of flimsy angle iron straps at each end of the cabinet. Not a major item...just a hassle to modify. The index pin is located outboard and easy to forget to release before starting the lathe. Also, the reverse switch is right next to the speed control and I have inadvertently reversed the lathe when reaching to adjust the speed.

The most annoying feature is a high pitched whine from the VFD which is continuous even after the lathe is turned off. The only way to stop this noise is to disconnect the power to the lathe! I contacted Grizzly's support staff and after being transfered to 3 "specialists" I was told that this is normal for all VFDs (?????) and I would have to live with it. They offered to ship it back for a refund if I would put it back in the crate (it was destroyed during the shipping). After hours of setting up and bolting to the floor this was not an option. I've attempted to improve this by installing a switch on the front panel to disconnect the power and it stills takes 20 seconds for the whine to stop. Their engineer tried to tell me that this was due to the pulsating DC generated by the rectifier and that all VFDs make this noise. since I have an AC Tech VFD that is absolutely quite I found this hard to believe.

I have purchased several Grizzly tools including a large mill, metal lathe, dust collector/vacuum and two other wood lathes. My experience has been good until this time. I feel that the Delta VFD (VFD022E21A) Inverter is either malfunctioning or poorly made and that Grizzly should have made some attempt to correct without having to ship it back. My other thought is that the lathe is wired incorrectly because of the whine continuing after turning off the lathe.

Thoughts, comments and suggestions are welcome especially if someone knows the source of the noise and hopefully how to fix it.

Mahalo Nui Loa

 

[john lucas]

Most of the Variable Frequency Drives I've been around are silent except some of them have an internal fan that makes very soft fan type noises. I have been on a machine that has the whine you are talking about and found it very annoying. I can't for the life of me remember what machine it was. I just remember the Whine and how irritating I found it.

 

[Gretch Flo]

noise

Bill-is it possible to hold the phone near the whining machine so they really know how bad it is??? Gretch

 

[waltben]

I've an older model Stubby that makes a small amount of noise, but nothing objectionable. It's enough to be a good reminder that it's got power to it, so I'd rather it making it than not. The muffin fan that cools the VFD started going bad a year or so back and that made a lot more noise. After replacing the fan, everything's back to where it was before.

 

[Rob Wallace]

Bill:

Sorry to 'hear' (no pun intended!) that you are having problems with the VFD and the Grizzly lathe in general.

It is a pile of horse puckey they are feeding you with respect to VFD units whining. It is true that there likely is some oscillation being generated in the VFD unit; identifying the actual cause of this in the field without the unit being on a test bench is very difficult. You are clearly not happy with the lathe in its present condition, and Grizzly has the obligation to either allow you to return the lathe (and pay for re-crating, etc. as well as shipping) or resolve the situation which corrects the malfunctioning parts. They are avoiding the latter obligation by telling you that it's a "normal" condition when it isn't. Maybe it is normal for their VFD units to whine (Perhaps these guys just don't know any better?), but it does appear that they do not want to deal with your problem.

Short of returning the lathe for a full cash refund (which I would do), I would demand that they send you a new VFD unit that has been bench tested and confirmed that no whining exists. It is bad enough that you have to deal with the hassle of doing all of this communicating with the company about a brand new tool at all, and having to bring what should be a complete, properly working tool to standards that you can live with; you should not have to spend the time working on a new tool just so it will perform in an acceptable manner. Their expectation that you have to do all of this on a new tool is just ludicrous.

Having been to the Grizzly showroom in Muncy, Pennsylvania, and having spent time carefully inspected their line of woodturning lathes (although I have not used any of them, nor do I care to), I will not recommend ANY of their lathes to anyone - whether a newcomer or an experienced turner (...and I have said so right on my Woodturning Links Web Page for several years!). Unfortunately, the situation you describe is yet another example to avoid Grizzly as a source of woodturning lathes altogether.

People should vote with their wallets and just say no to Grizzly wood lathes. Although the low price may be enticing to some, the long-term hassle of having to deal with these sub-standard machines is a false value. What you saved in initial cost, you are now paying many times over in hassle and disappointment. You should not have to 'settle' for what you get, particularly if you expect a machine to work properly "out of the box". There are better options for affordable lathes out there, with a much better track record of performance and customer service.

Good luck with this situation. Caveat emptor.

Rob Wallace

[P.S. - Your homebrew bowl lathe is very impressive! I am intrigued by the direct drive (through the Lovejoy shaft connection) spindle.... is there any bogging down during heavy cuts? Very well-designed and well-built! Now I'd like to try THAT lathe!]

 

[Wm Babbitt]

Grizzly G0694 Review

Thanks for the feedback...

I bought the lathe because I wanted the 3HP motor and the HD outboard turning capability. Also, living in Hawaii makes shipping a major factor and Grizzly shipped it for $375. If it wasn't for the whining noise I would be satisfied. Yes, I held the phone next to the lathe and they agreed that the noise was loud but had no solution except to ship it back.

Walt, when the fan went bad did it make the whining noise? This noise doesn't sound like a bad fan.

My "homebrew" lathe has proven to be good at turning bowls less than 16" in diameter. It is underpowered for larger pieces and bogs down because of the 1HP 3 phase motor is too small for larger bowls. The direct drive works well but limits the high end speed to about 1800 RPM. I don't make smaller bowls on this lathe so this isn't a major factor. It has sufficient torque at the lower speeds to rough in an out-of-balance block. The sliding bed and adjustable leg is great although it takes some trimming when relocated. I'm in the process of designing a larger bowl lathe based on some of the features of the VB36 and Vega lathes and plan to power with a 3 or 5 HP motor and VFD/step-pulley system. Time and money will dictate my progress.

Rob, when you come to Hawaii to thaw out I'll chuck a nice piece of koa for you.

 

[Gil Jones]

The Delta 2hp VFD on my PM3520B (VFD015S21U) makes NO noise at any power setting. If it has a fan inside the box, it is either a stealth fan, or it is not running.
Luck...
Gil

 

[n7bsn]

Rob
As others have noted, the whine is not normal in VFD's. It may be normal in how Grizzly did their lathe design though.

Think of "old" style TV's with their fly-back transformer and how some made noise and some didn't.

Think about some of the early PC's and how their switching power-supplies also whined.

Normally this is a design issue, sometimes a materials issue, both usually are a result of trying to do things "cheaper". But neither of these usually are a sign of a possible impending failure

TTFN
Ralph

 

[Bob Hadley]

Once upon a time, I too was the owner of a Grizzly lathe. Their prices are so low, the pictures in their catalogs so nice, it’s just too good to be true. And so it is.

My particular experience with Grizzly weaned me of low cost tools for good. Their use of cheap switches, the lame connectors, the self-disintegrating belts and crappy hardware remind me of the old saying: it looks good from far, but is far from good.

The way I see it is you can either sell it - as is - and take a bath. Or live with it and over time start upgrading it with a real motor (Baldor), an industrial grade VFD (Hitachi, etc.). Bt in the end you’ll still have a machine that has mystery metal castings and spindles, headstock bearings probably from some dirt-floor bearing factory in central China and, come to think of it, a stupid green paint job.

 

[rjones]

I do not have a clue, everyone I have been around is queit. except that dvr nova, had do a demo on one that made a realy bad whine. One thing ( like I say I do not know) you might check , phone lines make sure they are not too close, and make sure your power is right. mabe get an electrician to check the amp load, and that is grounded good, could be some sort of feed back. be great if something simple like that fixed it.
Good luck

 

[Wm Babbitt]

Review of Grizzly G0694

Contacted Delta re: the inverter and received this very helpful advice:

"Hi William,

My name is Chris Allyson and I am one of the technicians here at Delta Products. Sorry to hear you have been having issues with your lathe. With the VFD-E drive there are really two things that could be causing noise as you state. One is a component issue, ie. the fan or possibly the carrier frequency setting in the drive. The easiest check is to remove the fan from the drive. If you look at the bottom of the drive you will see the fan. Please power down the lathe before removing the fan. There are spring clips on either side of the fan. Just pinch them in and pull down carefully to remove the fan. After re-powering up the lathe listen to hear if the noise issue is gone. If it is then you may need a replacement fan or you can also set parameter 3-08 to a 2 (fan ON when the AC motor drive is running and OFF when the AC motor drive is stopped). If the noise is still there without the fan installed and the drive is not running then you may need more repairs or a replacement drive.

Hope this helps as a starting point to look at a couple of things. If you have any other questions feel free to e-mail me or call me at 919-767-3108.

Thanks and regards,

Chris Allyson"

Now this is customer service...Grizzly take note!!!

 

[Wm Babbitt]

SUCCESS!
I REMOVED THE FAN AND THE LATHE WAS COMPLETELY QUIET!!!

For a minor item the Grizzly people put me through a lot of hassle. I hope they have the courtesy to overnight ship a replacement and bench test it to insure that it works properly.

"There is no such thing as a problem
without a gift for you in its hands.
You seek problems because you need their gifts." Richard Bach

My gift was getting to meet all of you. Thanks to all who have given input...is this a great community or what!

 

[Bill Boehme]

I am an electrical engineer and I have some experience with various types of variable speed drives for various types of motors. The type of drive that you have is very likely to produce a high pitched whine depending on how the controller has been set up. The lower cost drives often have their PWM circuitry designed for a frequency of about 1 - 2 kHz (kilo Hertz) which is right at the most sensitive range of normal human hearing and can create a real nuisance. Better quality drives have provisions for adjusting the PWM frequency to a higher frequency where it is much less likely to be a nuisance. Something in the range of 3.5 - 5 kHz generally is much less annoying. The only downside is that the controller might need to be derated to a slightly smaller HP motor. It could be that your controller might not be adequate for the motor used if the PWM frequency is changed. The best controllers can be operated at frequencies of 8 kHz or even higher.

Something that would be worthwhile is to determine whether the noise is actually coming from the controller or from the motor. I suspect that it is coming from the motor. Sometime the PWM frequency will happen to be right at a mechanical resonance in the motor and sometimes there is something in the motor such as loose laminations in the field windings or perhaps excessive radial play in motor bearings or between the motor arbor and the bearings being excited by the PWM frequency. It might be necessary to physically remove the VFD from its mount on the lathe in order to isolate the source of the noise. Most of the lathes that I have seen with electronic drives seem to be reasonably quiet.

BTW, I have a Baldor drive and motor and they make virtually no sound.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Somehow, I missed seeing that your problem has been resolved. Glad that it was something simple. The Delta Electronics drive is used on several different lathes and seems to work quite well. The Grizzly tech support people out to be taken out behind the woodshed.

 

[Bob Borzelleri]

Hi Willian...

I happened upon your review of the Grizzly G0694 and read through to conclusion of the fan issue. Glad that was resolved (or am I assuming facts not in evidence?).

If the fan issue is history (or even if it's not), I'm interested in your current view of the Grizzly lathe. Any additional thoughts?

Thanks

...Bob

 

[Wm Babbitt]

Grizzly G0694 Review

Aloha Bob...
Concerning the fan issue, Here is a copy of the email I sent Grizzly:

Received the replacement fan and once again removed the VFD to install it. Turned the lathe on and the whine was still there...not quite as loud as the first fan but very noticeable.. I removed the VFD again and bench tested both fans. They both emitted a quiet whining noise but not anything as loud as when it is installed in the lathe. It appears that the cabinet acts as an amplifier .

I am currently running the lathe without the fan. Chris at Delta sent me the following:

To answer your question in regards to the drive staying on shortening the life it does not. If you want the fan to stop when the drive (lathe) is stopped then you can program parameter 3-08 and set it to a 2 (fan ON when the AC motor drive is running (ie-lathe is running) and OFF when the AC motor drive is stopped). I have attached a copy of the VFD-E series drive manual. You may still need to talk with Grizzly as they may have password protected the drive from any parameter changes.

Since I don't have the keypad to change the parameters, I have asked Grizzly if they would send me one...so far no reply.

Overall the lathe is powerful, stable and accurate. Tailstock aligns properly and the banjo-tool rest are very stable. The outboard tool rest alignment is rather cumbersome but when set is OK. I have made a cap to go over the speed control and index pin when I have the spindle locked so I don't inadvertently turn the lathe on with it locked. Made from PVC with rubber grommet (see attached). For the price it has performed well except for the annoying fan problem. I installed a switch on the front of the cabinet to turn of the power to the VFD when I am not using the lathe.

Would I buy it again? Probably yes even though I had to solve Grizzly's fan/VFD issue.

Hope this helps...

William