Round nose scraper

[John Torchick]

I have one in the set I purchased several years ago. I pondered its use and found that I could use it to do a decent job on pen blanks. I thought there might be some other uses for it. So........I did a search and came up with a Youtube video by Mike Waldt. It showed the RNS to have some versatility that I was not aware of. Mike cut coves and also showed how it could be used for platters and shallow bowls. He also showed how to use it to for a scraping cut and, by turning it at about 45 degrees, create a surface that needs little or no sanding. It was an excellent video with good camera angles along with his explanation of what he was doing and why. Will do a search on the forum to see what else is available.

 

[Martin Groneng]

I have about 5 RNS and have used them for over 30 years just as Mike uses them. I find the 1/2 inch best as there is less "cut surface" and thus less chance for a snag. Most of them have been "reground" to facilitate whatever is needed at the time of use. A great tool especially for inside of bowls and if used with caution, sanding can start at 220 or 240 or often even 280. Surely beats a 3/8 bowl gouge for final clean up cuts. Try it, you might like it, but be careful!

 

[odie]

Is this the video you speak of?

View: https://youtu.be/dfQHvGySWww

 

[John Torchick]

odie, that's it. Found it to be very informative.

 

[Jim Silva]

I'm pretty sure scrapers were the very first turning tools and there's a reason they've hung around so long. Pooh-poohed by many as "tools for amateurs", they're incredibly versatile when used correctly. Not always the most efficient wood removal tool for all occasions but nearly always workable.
I'm sure Reed will chime in on this soon as he's a big scraper proponent, IIRC.

 

[hockenbery]

There are quite a few turners who excell primarily with scrapers.
Many of them use scrapers more on the 1/4 wide size.
Myron Curtis a frequent demonstrator at AAW symposiums is an accomplished archictual turner using mostly small scrapers. Here is a 30 th anniversary profile
http://www.woodturner.org/?page=30YearCurtis&hhSearchTerms="Myron+and+curtis"

One is several American woodturner with articles
https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/aaw.site-ym.com/resource/resmgr/journals/15-03.pdf

 

[odie]

I've found scrapers to be very good for bringing a roughed bowl to round, and for general profile shaping. After that, gouges take over the refinement duties.....with the exception of when a raised burr on a scraper can be used.

-----odie-----

 

[john lucas]

Although scrapers work for things like cutting coves I would much prefer a good spindle gouge. sanding a cove to keep the top corners sharp is tricky and when you use a scraper you have to sand a lot more. yes you can shear scrape to clean it up. When I do use a scraper for cutting coves I cut from the high point to the low point. scraping uphill like he did on a couple of cuts just tears up more grain.

 

[odie]

scraping uphill like he did on a couple of cuts just tears up more grain.

Glad you brought this up, John......because there were several places in the video that seemed like obvious poor choices of tool and technique. I refrained from speaking out, because I didn't want to appear like I was critiquing him.......but, since you did, I guess I can too. This is a problem with many youtube videos on woodturning. Yes, they are free, and some of them give good advice. Some give not so good advice.....and some are downright dangerous! Someone new to turning might not see the problems, and might actually set back their learning process, instead of expanding their usable knowledge base.

If anyone is listening.......my advice it to get professionally made videos. You are much less likely to get poor advice that way.

-----odie-----

 

[Martin Groneng]

The video is not that bad as a whole, but as both John and Odie point out, there is some examples of BAD uphill scraping. My point is Do Not cut uphill as all that does is create extensive tear out. Always cut downhill.

 

[John Torchick]

My take on videos on Yutube is to watch them and experiment with the methods and tools presented. I have lots of wood and need to learn what can be done and what cannot be done. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.........I would think that some things as tear out would depend on the type of wood. Trying to think of a contrast in woods but drawing a blank.

 

[odie]

My take on videos on Yutube is to watch them and experiment with the methods and tools presented. I have lots of wood and need to learn what can be done and what cannot be done. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.........I would think that some things as tear out would depend on the type of wood. Trying to think of a contrast in woods but drawing a blank.

John......there is a reason why the direction of the cut is important for eliminating tear out. You are sort of correct in assuming some woods are more resistant to tearout than others, but the best direction of the cut has the wood fibers represented by the grain direction actually helping to support the cut. Going against the grain does not support the cut, and is more susceptible to tear out than going the best way. In the video, he was spindle turning, but the principle of supporting the cut with the best direction is exactly the same as in bowl turning. When John Lucas mentioned going uphill in the spindle turning shown in the video, the cut wasn't being supported by grain underneath the cut, and it's much more likely to tear the grain, because the cut isn't supported going uphill like that.

This is my own drawing, and I have it pinned to the wall behind my lathe. It's been a good reference for teaching my son......and, I refer to it from time to time, myself. The red arrows show the best direction of the cut. The original drawing I made it from was shown in an old vhs tape by John Jordan. Anyone is welcome to copy my drawing, if they'd like.

-----odie-----

 

[John Torchick]

odie, interesting picture. Thanks. The different directions remind me of routing- inside is one direction and outside is another direction.

 

[odie]

odie, interesting picture. Thanks. The different directions remind me of routing- inside is one direction and outside is another direction.

You are exactly right, John!

My drawing is for a bowl, but it's easy to see why one direction is better than the other. On a bowl, the grain goes from one side to the other, and perpendicular to the spindle. On spindle turning, the grain is parallel to the spindle. In both cases, the principle applies in the same manner.

-----odie-----

 

[John Torchick]

You are exactly right, John!

Thanks for that statement. My wife would never believe it!

 

[Martin Groneng]

Great picture for a "side grain" bowl, Odie. Now you need one for an "end grain" bowl!! Got to be specific.

 

[odie]

Great picture for a "side grain" bowl, Odie. Now you need one for an "end grain" bowl!! Got to be specific.

Martin.......that opportunity is available for someone who wants to present their drawing to the forum!

-----odie-----

 

[john lucas]

John I found this video a few minutes ago. It is interesting. Doesn't necessarily answer the question about round nose scraper but does introduce the V shaped scraper in a use I had not seen. Ernie Conover has taught a lot of students and knows what he's talking about.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bwdCKgmMfU

 

[Derek Lane]

Martin.......that opportunity is available for someone who wants to present their drawing to the forum!

-----odie-----

Not a drawing but Mark Sanger explains cut direction on the inside of an end grain bowl in this video have a look at 5:10 in the video

 

[Tom Albrecht]

There are quite a few turners who excell primarily with scrapers.
Many of them use scrapers more on the 1/4 wide size.
Myron Curtis a frequent demonstrator at AAW symposiums is an accomplished archictual turner using mostly small scrapers. Here is a 30 th anniversary profile
http://www.woodturner.org/?page=30YearCurtis&hhSearchTerms="Myron+and+curtis"

One is several American woodturner with articles
https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/aaw.site-ym.com/resource/resmgr/journals/15-03.pdf

Don't forget Richard Raffan

 

[Martin Groneng]

Yes, Richard is an "old scraper" man. I first turned with Richard about 25 years ago, when about 10 of us "turned" on the then "new record lathes" for about 3 full days and in that time we blew the motors on 3 machines and found there was much needed improvement on the product. Thus, Record went back to the drawing boards and did a whole lot of work improving their machines to become a better usable lathe that one could count on to last. There are many in use today.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Is there anybody around that uses one of those "arm rest tools" that Conover used in the video? I have not seen one of those in a long time, but it sure looks like a handy idea.

 

[hockenbery]

Is there anybody around that uses one of those "arm rest tools" that Conover used in the video? I have not seen one of those in a long time, but it sure looks like a handy idea.

I use one for chasing threads.
Conover video is a great overview.
I like his aftermarket tool rest mod for the lathe.

 

[John Torchick]

John, great video! Thanks! Ernie has opened up a lot of possibilities for me. He uses the round nose scraper and the pointed scraper which I have in my HF set for log ago. I have always thought of getting some of the HF screwdrivers to make some tools. His was interesting for hollowing. So much wood, so little time! I need to come back and watch Mark's video also.
BTW, I have never seen the arm rest before. Most useful, I would say.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

I use one for chasing threads.
Conover video is a great overview.
I like his aftermarket tool rest mod for the lathe.

Al, did you make your arm rest tool?

I didn't catch the "aftermarket tool rest mod".

 

[hockenbery]

Al, did you make your arm rest tool?

I didn't catch the "aftermarket tool rest mod".

I bought mine from craft supplies a long long time ago.
I got the arm rest with thread chasers. It may have been a set three.
The big advantage is when doing inside threads you leave the tool rest parallel to the lathe so you can test fit the thread without moving the tool rest same as Ernie testing the fit. My rest has loop so it can hang over a shoulder until needed.
Be simple to make if you can make a 90 degree bend and grind/polish the bottom corners round so the don’t catch when sliding and leaving a flat in the middle so it doesn’t tilt.

The arm rest won’t support a long overhang makes it ideal for sizing lid fits like Ernie did


The banjo and tool rest are ONEWAY.

 

[John Torchick]

Tom, I saved the magazine as a Bookmark for future reference for bracelets. Might try to make a few to sell or give away.

 

[john lucas]

I picked up a use arm rest support along with a couple of thread chasers. I don't use it. At least not for chasing but might have to try it for making jam chucks. I think it is probably very useful for turning the inside threads on things like bone or ivory. For the woods I use I don't have any trouble just using the chaser.

 

[robo hippy]

I really need to redo my scraper video....

So, uphill/down hill: When roughing it doesn't really make much difference because the important part is removing bulk as efficiently as possible, and getting to the final shape. For finish cuts, yes, you get way better surfaces if you are cutting down hill. With shear scraping, it is a bit different as the cuts are so fine you can generally go in either direction and get the same surface.

You can use scrapers on spindle work. Mike is doing a scraping cut, which does leave an okay surface. His 50 degree angle is a bit on the pointy/acute side to me. If you use a scraper for a peeling cut, you get a much better surface. I wouldn't try a peeling cut with a 50 degree scraper, though a 70 or 80 degree scraper works pretty well, and leaves a nice surface, sandable at about 150 to 220 grit. A better surface is achieved if you use a skew for the peeling cuts which leave me with a 220 or so surface ( yes, this will be another video). Where this type of cut comes in really handy is for us mere mortal skew users who are not up to Richard Raffen and Al Lacer levels. Especially if we are making wavy type shapes, we get tool marks which are a pain to sand out. If you use a blunt scraper or skew for a peeling cut, you can remove all of the tool marks and have a surface that is much less like a washboard.

Shear scraping with a round nose scraper: I recently posted a video about shear scraping, almost 2 months ago. If I am shear scraping with a round nose scraper, ALWAYS have the handle down, not up/elevated. Yes, standard way to use a scraper, for a scraping cut is to lift the handle. When doing shear scraping, since you are not doing a scraping cut, this is not a safety issue. If you raise the handle when you do a shear scrape, it becomes a safety issue. The reason for this, as I explain in my video is that with the handle raised you can get on the high side of the round nose, and you get the same catch that you do if you are on the high side of a skew chisel. The tool is unbalanced. By keeping the handle low, you can not get on that high side, so there is no catch risk.

The best cutting edge for a shear scraper is a burnished burr. I do need to send Mike a few burnishing rods... That burnished burr is also excellent on the 80/25 degree NRS for both bowls and spindles, and yes, they actually use it as a peeling cut on bowls (Sorby hard wood NRS tool video). Freaky, but it does work really well.

The cheater bar that Ernie uses: You may need one on a long bed lathe. If you have a sliding headstock, and have it all the way down on the end, you just set your tool rest to 90 degrees to the bed and you don't need a cheater bar/extended secondary lever.

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

The cheater bar that Ernie uses: You may need one on a long bed lathe. If you have a sliding headstock, and have it all the way down on the end, you just set your tool rest to 90 degrees to the bed and you don't need a cheater bar/extended secondary lever.

Reed, Think you missed it. Bet you watched with the sound off - I do that a lot..
He used an arm rest so he can do the test fit without moving the tool rest.

if a sliding head stock let you test fit a box lid while leaving the tool rest in front of where you cut i’d buy one

 

[John Turpin]

I really need to redo my scraper video....

No need. I've watched it a half dozen times and still learn something from it each time. It is excellent.

 

[robo hippy]

Al, I had not watched that one in a long time and skimmed through it. Since I don't use jamb chucks, or hand chase threads, I don't have that tool. I can see the use for it, but think I would still prefer the stability of the tool rest to a secondary lever.

John, I have figured out a lot more about scrapers since I made that video. The big Ugly is the only one I use for roughing. Main thing I want to cover comes from a comment Dave Schweitzer of D Way made after the last Oregon Woodturning Symposium, I had a lathe in my booth and was doing a lot of turning. He said several people commented to him that what I was doing with scrapers was scary. My reaction is pretty much 'Oh heck, it is just a scraper.' and then had the after thought that maybe that what I say when I see some one like Richard Raffen demo with the skew.... which is a four letter word...

robo hippy

 

[John Torchick]

a four letter word

Ouch?