Truing (facing off?) end grain and making shallow recess

[Jamie Straw]

I want to try Ruth Niles' approach and make a shallow recess for the stopper when I turn my first stopper in years. Cannot remember for sure (a) best way (tool and technique) to true to the end of the cylinder ("facing off" it's called?), and (b) what options (tool and technique) I consider for creating a shallow (1/8") recess just the size of the stopper base. I have a vague memory from Bonnie's class of laying the skew flat on the tool rest, parallel and close to the end, and dragging the skew across from the center out, so I tried that. Worked OK. All memories are vague!

 

[hockenbery]

Not sure there is a "best way" depends on the tools you have.
The skew works fine,

I have a square scraper ground on the left side it works well Forstner bit does the job.
A small gouge is a bit tricky but will do it.
A gouge with the Ray key grind works well

There must be a dozen other tools and ways

 

[Jamie Straw]

Skew and spindle gouge available. Forstner bit recess was to big in diameter. Bad day -- the hole for the threaded mandrel was too big too -- stubby bit must not have been mounted right, it's the same one I used to use. Gouge tricky, yes -- catch tore things up. Off topic: Pulled up a video just now, Mike Waldt turning a goblet. For the bowl, he started a divot with the skew, and used a spindle gouge to dive into the wood. Hmmmm, couldn't see how he was holding it for that first approach. Looked like a plunge.

No more lathe work tonight, trouble with back. Will be glad when the AAW meeting rolls around next week.

 

[john lucas]

I assume your cutting end grain on the stopper. Using the spindle gouge you should be cutting from the middle out for a recess. I hold the tool so the flute is pointing toward about 10 oclock and the stick the nose of the tool in the middle and go toward the outside (left side). I typically use the toe of the skew to do something like that but it depends a lot on the shape. Since I tend to turn most of my stoppers with my Thompson detail gouge I simply use that if I want to face off the bottom or cut a recess in it.

 

[Jamie Straw]

10 o'clock, ok, yes!

I assume your cutting end grain on the stopper. Using the spindle gouge you should be cutting from the middle out for a recess. I hold the tool so the flute is pointing toward about 10 oclock and the stick the nose of the tool in the middle and go toward the outside (left side). I typically use the toe of the skew to do something like that but it depends a lot on the shape. Since I tend to turn most of my stoppers with my Thompson detail gouge I simply use that if I want to face off the bottom or cut a recess in it.

Perfect, that's the kind of detail I was looking for. BTW, want to compliment and thank you for your Turning Beads video -- I watched it again Sunday and practiced with my finally-nicely-sharpened spindle gouge, and it was so helpful. Love your home-made beading tools too. Beat-up screwdrivers are plentiful in my husband's tool collection, may try making one myself.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Better luck tonight...

Did better tonight, using your description and watching a little video by Mike Waldt. Have to make a draw-bar now, mandrel was working loose while I was sanding. Also want to get a stopper-mandrel that is straight, for putting in a Jacobs chuck instead of using the Morse-taper mandrel. Starting a shopping list.

 

[Mark Wollschlager]

Are you using Ruth Niles stopper mandrel?
If not, it is a nice tool.
It is threaded for a drawbar, and it will 'thread' the stopper blank very nicely if you drill a 11/32 hole.
I usually grab the {mostly ) squared off blank in a chuck, round it with a skew and drill the 11/32 hole with a drill in a jacobs chuck.
I flatten the end by slicing with the skew. It leaves a super fine finish, no sanding required.
I usually do a bunch of these at a time.
The I set up the mandrel with the drawbar, screw the blank on and turn the stopper.

 

[Hy Tran]

Skew and spindle gouge available. Forstner bit recess was to big in diameter. Bad day -- the hole for the threaded mandrel was too big too -- stubby bit must not have been mounted right, it's the same one I used to use. Gouge tricky, yes -- catch tore things up. Off topic: Pulled up a video just now, Mike Waldt turning a goblet. For the bowl, he started a divot with the skew, and used a spindle gouge to dive into the wood. Hmmmm, couldn't see how he was holding it for that first approach. Looked like a plunge.

No more lathe work tonight, trouble with back. Will be glad when the AAW meeting rolls around next week.

To drill a hole in end-grain (as in goblet), one way: Use the tailstock to mark a point, then, use the point of the skew (it's either the heel or the toe, I can never remember--the pointy end) to make and enlarge a divot. You can use a spindle gouge (not spindle roughing gouge, but spindle gouge or spindle detail gouge) to drill the hole. Poke the gouge straight into the divot, and push straight in. You don't need the tool rest for this; just push straight in. The wings will cut. You can practice doing this to the depth of the wing, or maybe a bit more, to get a feel for it.

Some turners turn a handle, drill a hole, then, glue a drill into the handle (pointy end out). They drill by just shoving the bit into the end grain of the goblet.

Once you've drilled to desired depth, you nibble your way from the hole outwards towards the rim.

Note to take whatever I say with a huge chunk of salt; I have fewer than 6 lifetime goblets (but I do have many miniature end-grain blanks where I discovered that insides should always be smaller than outsides

 

[hockenbery]

I drill with the spindle gouge like Hy says. I make the little divot with the spindle gouge.

Three things I do are to set the tool rest a bit low, twist the gouge a quarter turn as it drills, and clear the shavings after the quarter twist.

With the tool rest a bit low I can use it to guide the point into the divot hole then have the gouge not touching the tool rest as it drills. Don't want it binding I push straight in twist a quarter turn pull it out to clear the shavings and push in again and give a quarter turn as it begins to drill. And repeat until the hole is at depth.
If you don't clear the chips the gouge will bind and if you loose control of the tool bad thing will happen.

I mark the depth on the gouge with a pencil line or a piece of tape.
The twist lets the gouge work efficiently if the tip is not at center.

On something like a goblet I sort of drill and hollow at the same time with an end grain hollowing technique I learned in a Raffan demo. It is important to leave some of the drill hole to continue to depth. The hole gives the bevel something to rest on so it cannot skate backward. This hollowing on the way out clears the chips



Al

 

[Dean Center]

Q1: Facing off the end of the blank
A) With a skew, with the edge straight up and the long point facing directly away from you, with the handle low and the skew slightly over the spinning blank. Line up the point with where you want to enter the blank. (for me, usually 1/32-1/16 or so from the farthest edge of ghost image) and slowly lift the handle. The point will enter the wood without any bevel engaged, this is called 'swinging in from space'. Continue slowly lifting your handle hand as syou also slowly advance the point forward toward the center of the end of the blank. The point will scribe something of an arc on the end of the wood. You'll need to very slightly (a couple of degrees) aim the skew toward the headstock, but you'll learn this with experience. If your 1/32-1/16 didn't face off the whole edge, do it again.
B) With a fingernail ground spindle gouge, with the flute horizontal aimed toward the tailstock (this is flute "closed") align the bevel of the tool where you want to enter the wood with the point. Then it's exactly the same as what you do with a skew--lift handle, enter from space, slowly lift and advance, with the point moving in an arc toward the center.

Q2: I use a Forstner bit to cut the recess. A drill press is nice and allows you to batch process, but not required. You can do it with a drill chuck in the tail stock very nicely as well. I can't remember having any trouble finding the right bit, so I don't think it's some bizarre size. The point on the Forstner gives your regular bit for the mandrel a centering point. BTW, I use a 5/16 bit for my mandrels, unless the wood is super hard.