U flute bowl gouge

[Dale Miner]

Thanks for taking the time to make that video, Ian.....:cool2:

Your great job of explaining the danger involved was enlightening.

ooc

For the original post, Henry Taylor are OK. Reasonable steel, they tend to be short. I have tried the u flute gouges and I prefer parabolic or some people call them v shaped flutes. I do own some u shaped flutes too.

On to the sideshow. Mr mouse gets a good debate out of this every year or so and it is fun to watch. First off, it is our responsibility to read manuals, get training, and understand how this wood turning thing works. If we don't we only have ourselves to blame for failure. Can you use a srg on a bowl, sure you can there is an edge there. You can use an Axe too, understand the relationship between the steel edge, grain and rotation and the rest is cake. Not one poster here put up a warning about the misuse of the tools they suggested. I scrape the outside of bowls with no tool rest, but the danger there is perhaps more apparent. Challenging who can take a bigger shaving than the other is a base argument not relevant to the quality of the work or versatility of the tool. Woodturning and this forum for that matter is about the relationship between the edge and the wood and the final work not retraining for Michael.

David,

Trust me, no intention to retrain Mr Mouse. I am of the opinion that he prefers to keep an ongoing on line argument going just for the sake of argument. For all I know, he might use bowl gouges and just puts out his spin about roughing gouges to keep an argument going. If he wants to use rouging gouges, axes, sharpened spoons, etc. it makes no difference to me.

But, it has not been that long ago that my learning curve was at the starting point. His videos caused me to try things that I now feel are unsafe for a beginner to attempt and while possible for an experienced turner, why bother. For me, and I feel most of the others that reply to his post in opposition to his premise, keeping a beginner from getting hurt is the reason we reply. I can't recall anyone supporting his roughing gouge on bowl assertion.

I agree, this thread has gone away from the discussion of U-flutes, but the yank on the steering wheel was by Mr. Mouse. My reply and probably those of others were done to caution beginners that using a roughing gouge for bowls is not the tool of choice for most turners, and has a higher likelyhood of injury. The purpose of my reply was not to point people in the direction of taking the largest cut.

As to the original question about U flutes, the ones I use are Thompson. My first bowl gouge was a home made tool of 4340 with a flute made with the edge of a 4.5" grinder. That flute was more U shaped than anything else. Wouldn't hold an edge very long, and a look for commercial tooling only found the Thompson's and I think P&N, The powdered metal stock in the Thompsons caught my fancy, and those are the ones that reside in the tool rack. I use V and U flutes, but prefer the U. Probably due to learning with a flute of that shape.

 

[robo hippy]

I liked Dell Stubb's story about his first gouge, a piece of galvanized pipe with a bevel, and half the top cut off........ For sure, a U gouge....

robo hippy

 

[hughie]

I liked Dell Stubb's story about his first gouge, a piece of galvanized pipe with a bevel, and half the top cut off........ For sure, a U gouge....

robo hippy

ho ho , been there and done that. But I prefer a U to a V probably for the same reasons. My first gouge was a homemade from drill steel and a bull nosed end mill, in fact I still have it in the rack.

 

[Dale Miner]

I liked Dell Stubb's story about his first gouge, a piece of galvanized pipe with a bevel, and half the top cut off........ For sure, a U gouge....

robo hippy

That is the first video I watched, and was the motivation for making my home made gouge. The quenched and tempered 4340 held an egde better than galvanized pipe, but not as well as HSS or powdered metals do.

 

[hockenbery]

Sharpened pipes to turn spheres pop every couple of years as people "invent" it from the geometry of holding a circular edge on a sphere.

 

[odie]

For the most part, I'm one who doesn't mind that discussion takes twists and turns in other directions. Sometimes great information and thought gets presented that way.....

Can we define a U shape as a flute that is vertical at the sides, and a regular bowl gouge has a flute that is close, but not vertical? Much of this discussion is a product of what we've learned to use, and how we've learned to use it. If that is true, then there is no one best way to achieve great results when looking it from the spectrum of many experienced turners. However, there is bad advice.....and, for someone new to turning, using a SRG for bowl turning is not good advice to follow. It can be done, but not without some pretty clearly defined dangers involved.

I learned on a regular deep flute bowl gouge, and that direction was inspired by some experienced turners via books and commercial videos. Since I'm satisfied with the results I'm getting, and because it involves expense, I'm not willing to invest in an experiment. I see no reason to bother with the U shaped flute.....but understand that others might very well benefit from the U flute bowl gouge.

For the original post, Henry Taylor are OK. Reasonable steel, they tend to be short. I have tried the u flute gouges and I prefer parabolic or some people call them v shaped flutes. I do own some u shaped flutes too.

On to the sideshow. Mr mouse gets a good debate out of this every year or so and it is fun to watch. First off, it is our responsibility to read manuals, get training, and understand how this wood turning thing works. If we don't we only have ourselves to blame for failure. Can you use a srg on a bowl, sure you can there is an edge there. You can use an Axe too, understand the relationship between the steel edge, grain and rotation and the rest is cake. Not one poster here put up a warning about the misuse of the tools they suggested. I scrape the outside of bowls with no tool rest, but the danger there is perhaps more apparent. Challenging who can take a bigger shaving than the other is a base argument not relevant to the quality of the work or versatility of the tool. Woodturning and this forum for that matter is about the relationship between the edge and the wood and the final work not retraining for Michael.

Side-stepping a bit, I'd like to reinforce the basic truth that David makes in the (bold) comment above. When I first began turning bowls, big long shavings, and very aggressive cuts were very impressive. I spent a great deal of effort to learn all the related things to make those big cuts. After a time, one learns that big aggressive cuts are not what is important at all.....with the possible exception of producing very simple shapes. Turning complex shapes isn't about speed. It's about how sharp the tool is, and how well the tool is applied to the wood. Like many experienced turners, I was once focused on speed, but have learned to "slow down and smell the roses"! This is the point where a turner really starts to make very advanced improvements to his abilities and style......not to mention that his horizons have been extended much further than he ever realized before.

I have a 16" swing and a 1 1/2 HP motor. I believe I could do everything I do now with a 1HP motor on a 20" lathe!

It is also my belief that big aggressive cuts disturb the wood grain below the surface. If that disturbance is close enough to the final finished surface, it will result in wood grain that doesn't have the resilience it would need to have for eye appeal in the final sanded, or finished product. Smaller refined cuts eliminate the possibility of any of this......

Of course, all of the above is my opinion only.......take it for whatever you feel it's worth.

ooc

 

[hockenbery]

For the most part, I'm one who doesn't mind that discussion takes twists and turns in other directions. Sometimes great information and thought gets presented that way.....

Can we define a U shape as a flute that is vertical at the sides, and a regular bowl gouge has a flute that is close, but not vertical? Much of this discussion is a product of what we've learned to use, and how we've learned to use it. If that is true, then there is no one best way to achieve great results when looking it from the spectrum of many experienced turners. However, there is bad advice.....and, for someone new to turning, using a SRG for bowl turning is not good advice to follow. It can be done, but not without some pretty clearly defined dangers involved.

It is also my belief that big aggressive cuts disturb the wood grain below the surface. If that disturbance is close enough to the final finished surface, it will result in wood grain that doesn't have the resilience it would need to have for eye appeal in the final sanded, or finished product. Smaller refined cuts eliminate the possibility of any of this......

There are sort of 3 flute shapes on bowl gouges and lots of in betweens.
U pretty much as you described rounded bottom straight vertical side walls doesn't take a side grind well
V narrow rounded bottom and slanted side walls - glazer gouges made it popular
Parabolic which is sort of a v with u bottom. - best for the Ellsworth grind

Aggressive cuts disturb the surface a lot. When you cut away 3/4 inch of wood it always tears the fibers ahead of the cut.
I never use the roughing cut to closer that 1/4". To the surface Because the readout can go that deep.
On soft and punky woods it can be deeper.

Purpose of the roughing cut not riding the bevel is three-fold
1. quickly shape the work removing waste wood.
2. comfortable on out of round pieces especially 1/2 log blanks as the bevel is off the wood it doesn't get a bounce from uneven surfaces
3. Leaves a round curved surface for the bevel riding finish cuts

Aggressive bevel riding cuts can remove a. Lot of wood too. Less tear-out but there is still needs to be a progression from big to small shavings.

Probably the most difficult cuts to master is a 1/64" bevel riding finish cut from bottom to rim following the curve. Leaves a smooth surface with any sharp bowl gouge.

Al

 

[Dale Miner]

For the most part, I'm one who doesn't mind that discussion takes twists and turns in other directions. Sometimes great information and thought gets presented that way.....

Can we define a U shape as a flute that is vertical at the sides, and a regular bowl gouge has a flute that is close, but not vertical? Much of this discussion is a product of what we've learned to use, and how we've learned to use it. If that is true, then there is no one best way to achieve great results when looking it from the spectrum of many experienced turners. However, there is bad advice.....and, for someone new to turning, using a SRG for bowl turning is not good advice to follow. It can be done, but not without some pretty clearly defined dangers involved.

I learned on a regular deep flute bowl gouge, and that direction was inspired by some experienced turners via books and commercial videos. Since I'm satisfied with the results I'm getting, and because it involves expense, I'm not willing to invest in an experiment. I see no reason to bother with the U shaped flute.....but understand that others might very well benefit from the U flute bowl gouge.




Side-stepping a bit, I'd like to reinforce the basic truth that David makes in the (bold) comment above. When I first began turning bowls, big long shavings, and very aggressive cuts were very impressive. I spent a great deal of effort to learn all the related things to make those big cuts. After a time, one learns that big aggressive cuts are not what is important at all.....with the possible exception of producing very simple shapes. Turning complex shapes isn't about speed. It's about how sharp the tool is, and how well the tool is applied to the wood. Like many experienced turners, I was once focused on speed, but have learned to "slow down and smell the roses"! This is the point where a turner really starts to make very advanced improvements to his abilities and style......not to mention that his horizons have been extended much further than he ever realized before.

I have a 16" swing and a 1 1/2 HP motor. I believe I could do everything I do now with a 1HP motor on a 20" lathe!

It is also my belief that big aggressive cuts disturb the wood grain below the surface. If that disturbance is close enough to the final finished surface, it will result in wood grain that doesn't have the resilience it would need to have for eye appeal in the final sanded, or finished product. Smaller refined cuts eliminate the possibility of any of this......

Of course, all of the above is my opinion only.......take it for whatever you feel it's worth.

ooc

Odie,

For the most part, folk learn how to accomplish the woodturning goal with a certain arsenal of tools. No doubt, the goal can be accomplished with other tooling, but what is learned and or found best suited to a turners methods, is the best way for that turner. For me, learning on a U flute no doubt stacks the deck for me in favor of a U. I have a technique that is somewhat different than most turners. Works for me. You have a skill set that you are comfortable with, no real reason to reinvent your wheel.

As to effciency of one tool over another for roughing; It is not really a matter of being able to take a heavier cut as much as the force needed to take a similar cut.

Perhaps others methods are different from mine, but I start by splitting a short log section down the middle just to one side of or through the pith. That half log is then cut into a blank on either the bandsaw or with a chainsaw depending on the size of the piece. The blank is mounted between centers so that tweaking mounting of the blank to get as much symetry as possible in the grain pattern can be done. From there, a good deal of wood needs to be removed from the ends or corners of the blank to get near to the final shape. It is this interupted cut that gives the most abuse to the body and takes the most time. Less force required to cut the wood during that part of the process equals less abuse to the body. The size of the cut is a matter of personal technique and other factors, but less cutting force is easier on all parts of the machine, including the body. I am an aggresive turner, roughing an 18" blank on a 2 hp Powermatic uses all of the 2 hp.

You mention your feeling that taking heavy cuts disturbs the wood below the surface. It probably does, but I don't think it does to a great depth. When there is still an inch or more of wood to be removed to get to the desired profile of the rough out, a cut of 3/8" seems unlikely to have an effect on the wood that is 5/8" away from the cut. Typically for me, the final shaping of a roughout is done with cuts of 1/8" or less. On the second turning, the final several cuts will be much less than 1/8", sometimes just a few thousandths. Cutting force for final cuts is not an issue. For those final finishing cuts, a 1/4 horsepower motor would probably suffice.

For me, there is a very distinct difference between roughing and finishing.

I have used a large forged pattern spindle gouge on the outside and inside of bowls when the cut from a bowl gouge wasn't to my liking. Sometimes the extra shear helps, sometimes not. But a forged pattern spindle gouge puts the cutting force nearly straight above the point of contact between the gouge and the rest. If a roughing gouge were used for this cut, the point of contact would be about half the width of the gouge away from the cutting force. That distance has a tendency to make the gouge want to roll into the cut. If the top of the wing rolls into the cut, a catch occurs. For a light finishing cut, the tendency to roll is fairly manageable. During a heavy interupted cut, not so manangeable.

Enough rambling, gotta get to shop and do some metal spinning.

 

[odie]

Odie,

For the most part, folk learn how to accomplish the woodturning goal with a certain arsenal of tools. No doubt, the goal can be accomplished with other tooling, but what is learned and or found best suited to a turners methods, is the best way for that turner. For me, learning on a U flute no doubt stacks the deck for me in favor of a U. I have a technique that is somewhat different than most turners. Works for me. You have a skill set that you are comfortable with, no real reason to reinvent your wheel.

As to effciency of one tool over another for roughing; It is not really a matter of being able to take a heavier cut as much as the force needed to take a similar cut.

Perhaps others methods are different from mine, but I start by splitting a short log section down the middle just to one side of or through the pith. That half log is then cut into a blank on either the bandsaw or with a chainsaw depending on the size of the piece. The blank is mounted between centers so that tweaking mounting of the blank to get as much symetry as possible in the grain pattern can be done. From there, a good deal of wood needs to be removed from the ends or corners of the blank to get near to the final shape. It is this interupted cut that gives the most abuse to the body and takes the most time. Less force required to cut the wood during that part of the process equals less abuse to the body. The size of the cut is a matter of personal technique and other factors, but less cutting force is easier on all parts of the machine, including the body. I am an aggresive turner, roughing an 18" blank on a 2 hp Powermatic uses all of the 2 hp.

You mention your feeling that taking heavy cuts disturbs the wood below the surface. It probably does, but I don't think it does to a great depth. When there is still an inch or more of wood to be removed to get to the desired profile of the rough out, a cut of 3/8" seems unlikely to have an effect on the wood that is 5/8" away from the cut. Typically for me, the final shaping of a roughout is done with cuts of 1/8" or less. On the second turning, the final several cuts will be much less than 1/8", sometimes just a few thousandths. Cutting force for final cuts is not an issue. For those final finishing cuts, a 1/4 horsepower motor would probably suffice.

For me, there is a very distinct difference between roughing and finishing.

I have used a large forged pattern spindle gouge on the outside and inside of bowls when the cut from a bowl gouge wasn't to my liking. Sometimes the extra shear helps, sometimes not. But a forged pattern spindle gouge puts the cutting force nearly straight above the point of contact between the gouge and the rest. If a roughing gouge were used for this cut, the point of contact would be about half the width of the gouge away from the cutting force. That distance has a tendency to make the gouge want to roll into the cut. If the top of the wing rolls into the cut, a catch occurs. For a light finishing cut, the tendency to roll is fairly manageable. During a heavy interupted cut, not so manangeable.

Enough rambling, gotta get to shop and do some metal spinning.

(See the part highlighted in bold above.)

All true enough, Dale......

What you are saying about a roughing cut being generally a good distance away from the final surface does cover many bowls in progress.......but, that is an unknown. Sometimes, it could be an issue. Many times, it's not, and sometimes it is. Usually I have a "game plan" for a finished bowl, but more times than not, that plan is changed during the final shaping stage. This is mostly due to what is revealed as the bowl progresses, and sometimes just because I change my mind! I can never say just where the finishing cut will be in relation to the where the roughing cut is.

Small roughing cuts don't risk any undesirable results, and there is no real favorable results in huge cuts, other than some self satisfaction that a person can do it. It isn't a matter of saving much time, because it all boils down to a difference of only a few minutes.......

ooc

 

[hockenbery]

One thing I do in the roughing is to have the tool and machine do the work.
I try work in all the turning so I don't have to hold the tools so much as guide them

When I get the cutting force going into the tool rest the lathe is doing all the work.
I try never to take a cut that slows the machine significantly.

My roughing cut with a side ground gouge cut with the tip and lower wing with the bevel,off the wood a bit and with the angle the flute about 45 degrees the gouge is pulled along into the cut and my job is to steer it and pull it back a bit to take less wood.

Al

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... It is also my belief that big aggressive cuts disturb the wood grain below the surface. ....

Thanks for the gem, Odie. It is good to run across a pearl of wisdom now and then. Even if it is something that we may intuitively recognize after a bit of experience, I don't recall this fine point being discussed anywhere.

... Aggressive cuts disturb the surface a lot ...

And they don't necessarily need to be aggressive to cause deep damage. Earlier this week I started working on a small vase from a piece of box elder. There are some nice red streaks in the wood, but the wood was on the ground for a while and some of it has a tendency to pull fibers out even using very light cuts and very sharp tools. Even with the light cuts, some of the pits were probably 1/32 inch deep and it took quite a bit of sanding to get to a smooth surface.

Then yesterday, I started working on a piece of highly figured soft maple. I can see right off the bat that I might have to start sanding at a grit that is coarser than 400. Is there such a thing as 40 grit sandpaper (gravel paper perhaps)?

Most of my cuts after knocking off the corners are finishing cuts. Why? Well, let's see:

1. I'm doing this as a hobby and not for income so I am not in a pants-on-fire hurry.
2. More time spent turning is ... uh ... well, more time spent enjoying what I do for a hobby.
3. Finishing cuts are more important than roughing cuts so I spend my time honing my skill in making finishing cuts. Who cares what my roughing cuts look like -- all roughing cuts wind up in the trash or in the shrub beds.

.... Probably the most difficult cuts to master is a 1/64" bevel riding finish cut from bottom to rim following the curve. Leaves a smooth surface with any sharp bowl gouge.

OK, now you've gone from preaching to bragging.

Do I get partial credit for making it a quarter of the way before losing the bevel?

.... You mention your feeling that taking heavy cuts disturbs the wood below the surface. It probably does, but I don't think it does to a great depth....

I generally turn harder woods like mesquite where my guess is that roughing damage has almost zero depth, but then in the past few days, I can't seem to avoid pulling and tearing fibers regardless of how careful I try to be.

 

[hockenbery]

And they don't necessarily need to be aggressive to cause deep damage. Earlier this week I started working on a small vase from a piece of box elder. There are some nice red streaks in the wood, but the wood was on the ground for a while and some of it has a tendency to pull fibers out even using very light cuts and very sharp tools. Even with the light cuts, some of the pits were probably 1/32 inch deep and it took quite a bit of sanding to get to a smooth surface.

Then yesterday, I started working on a piece of highly figured soft maple.

Most of my cuts after knocking off the corners are finishing cuts. Why? Well, let's see: .....
[*]Finishing cuts are more important than roughing cuts so I spend my time honing my skill in making finishing cuts. ......

Bill,

You hit on two problem woods known for tear out. Punky and figured.
We all struggle with these woods......
To get a clean cut the fiber being cut needs a supporting fiber behind it to cut cleanly. With straight grained wood on a open bowl this is foot to rim on the outside and rim to bottom on the inside.

1. Punky With punky wood spaces between the fibers cause some pull out instead of cutting. Need to strengthen the wood. fill-in the spaces.
For minor punky i spray with water swells the fibers I get a clean cut.
Sealing with extra thin shellac or lacquer can stiffen the fibers to give me a clean cut
for falling apart punky a product like polyall2000 will plasticize the wood and I can cut and shape the plastic wood.
I experiment with different cuts to see which gives the smoother surface. Bevel riding, pull with the handle way down, shear cuts.
I try really light shear scraping but this sometimes makes the surface worse.

2. Figured wood the grain is going in different directions so while you cut one fiber cleanly the next ones you lift and tear because they go in a different direction.
Birdseye maple the little eyes are like endgrain stuck in the face grain. Often they are harder and can pull out instead of cut
With straight grain wood I turn some hollow forms from a quarter log to get the log curvature at the top. This makes the grain run 30-40 degrees off straight or on the bias giving some of the same problems as figured wood. Cutting one side smoothly lifting the fibers on the other side.
These woods I use sharp tools, light cuts. I also experiment with the different cuts. Often shear scraping produces the best result.


I also experiment with speed. A faster speed and slower feed rate usually help.

That whole idea of using the finish cuts from the get go gets us practiced up for the finish cut.
In most classes and workshops I have the students do finish cuts the whole class.
Some students I find experimenting with the non bevel riding roughing cut on their own

I suppose this counts for hijacking the hijacked thread-

Al

 

[odie]

Originally Posted by odie
.... Probably the most difficult cuts to master is a 1/64" bevel riding finish cut from bottom to rim following the curve. Leaves a smooth surface with any sharp bowl gouge.

OK, now you've gone from preaching to bragging.

Do I get partial credit for making it a quarter of the way before losing the bevel?

Of course, Bill......

That sounds like something I would have said in the past.......must have been awhile back, though. For purposes of communication clarity, I mentioned 1/64" bevel. It could be longer, or shorter......but the point was that the bevel was much shorter than you normally see other turners using. This short bevel is part of a double bevel, or on occasion, a triple bevel. (The second and third bevel's only purpose is for clearance around a curve, and the short bevel is where the cut stabilizes.) There is more to the equation, though.......because the flute presentation is altered several times in alternating directions as the cut progresses around the curve, and through to the base of the interior. This is where the flute presentation gets really crucial, because a small error in judgment will result in a very big and dangerous catch!

I hope others here don't consider my input as "preaching or bragging". I consider my input as nothing more than trying to communicate to other turners what I believe or think is true, as seen from my own limited perspective. Much of the time, my beliefs are rejected by others......and, I really don't care one way or the other. At another time, I believe I mentioned that the act of trying to explain my thoughts to others gives me a more solid understanding of my own beliefs. That, I've discovered, is a very important thing to my personal progress, and is my ultimate purpose in attempting difficult explanations. If I can, or do help anyone else in the process, that's a good thing, too! :cool2: I am also here to absorb input from others, and allow some of that input to influence me in altering, or changing my own thinking and/or procedural application......and that seems to happen with frequency.......very cool!

ooc

 

[David Wilkins]

Plucking and tearing, if you really start to look at shavings the story starts to be told. First off, let's assume it's sharp enough. The next thing to look at is how aggressive your cutting, and thirdly the tool presentation. If you look at the shavings, and more specifically how they come off the piece and break, they will indicate if you need to change tool presentation or sharpening angle. If you familiarize yourself with hand planes the theory is part of planes 101. Lee Valley have a nice study on types of shavings that will also help differentiate what we look at in scraping cuts, vs roughing vs finishing. Skewing the tool angle for planes as well as turning tools has an impact on the quality of cut. If you watch the YouTube video regarding the srg on "bowl" work earlier in this thread, the mistake was not tool choice, if I presented a bowl gouge the same way, the result would be similar. Equally dangerous would be a parting tool, unlikely to get pulled in, especially a diamond shaped one, but the corners would fly. Skewing that srg with the handle away would have resulted in an OK cut, using a bowl gouge would have allowed any reasonable turner to refine the results to a decent standard. The difference is how much easier it is to find the sweet spot with a bowl gouge, and the consequence if you don't.

 

[robo hippy]

For me, definition wise, a "U" shaped flute is not U shaped at all, but a segment/arc of a circle where the curve stays the same all the way through. A parabolic flute has a curve in the bottom, then a different curve up the sides. A V flute has a smaller curve in the bottom, and straight sides/no curve in the sides of the flute.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

Al, I forgot to mention the interior of the box elder hollow form. I know that other turners are always saying to not worry about the interior, but this is the roughest surface (if you can call something that rough a surface) that I have ever seen. Most of the problem was due to the condition of the wood, but it is as rough as a corncob on the inner surface. I am surprised that it didn't pull a few holes in the wall. I had decided to use a couple Easy Wood carbide hollowing tools because they had worked wonderfully on a piece of post oak burl that was as hard as nails. Lesson learned: forget about the EWT on soft slightly punky wood. I suppose that I could have set up my Steve Sinner hollowing rig with the Rolly Munro carbide cutter, but that would have been a sight to see -- a six inch diameter HF being hollowed with a five foot long pole made of two 1⅛ inch bars welded together. I am not sure if the bar would even fit in the hole.

It just now occurred to me that I bought a few Trent Bosch hollowing tools a few years ago when I took a class from him. I haven't used the tools since the class. That's pretty sad -- having so many tools that I can't remember what I have. WAIT -- what am I saying ... there is no such thing as too many tools. You guys don't forget to declare me the winner when I croak. Deal??

 

[Bill Boehme]

Let's not get too pedantic over a few letters of the alphabet. I don't think that anyone ever intended for the shape of some letters to imply a rigorous definition of the precise shape of a gouge flute. If we're going to get carried away on this matter then we need to specify the font style, serif or sans, kerning and all of the other frou-frou that goes along with getting carried away.

 

[Dale Miner]

WAIT -- what am I saying ... there is no such thing as too many tools. You guys don't forget to declare me the winner when I croak. Deal??

Bill,

I think best way to declare winner is by using tonnage as a measure, not count.

 

[Breck Whitworth]

I prefer the u shaped for hollowing a bowl

I am primarily a bowl man and have found that for me the u shaped flute is better for me personally for the finishing cuts for the inside of a bowl. I use a Thompson 3/4 deep v gouge for roughing the outside of a bowl, but the u-shaped seems to me to give an easier smooth cut from the side through the transition to the bottom. I use it for the roughing and the finishing cuts that require an undercut on a recessed rim on a bowl. Just my 2 cents, I think it has a lot to do with what you learned on and have gotten good with.