Walnut stumps - worth the effort?

[Brian Hahn]

Someone I know just had a bunch of black walnut trees logged off from their woods and I'm welcome to the debris. I plan to get a couple of loads of crotch wood.

The real question is the stumps. We don't have the equipment to pull the stumps, so it seems like I'm limited to chainsaws. Is the stump wood worth the effort? How deep will I need to go to get the really good wood? I don't mind sacrificing a couple of chains if necessary.

The terrain is ridge top and the fairly steep hillsides down into the valleys. The ridge top and valleys are accessible by truck. Other conditions are starting to come into play as well. A rain this morning made the ground "slicker than snot", the season's first snow has already dropped a couple of inches, and next week is rifle deer season.

 

[arbud]

yabetchya

Brian, If the stumps are of good size then they are worth the effort. They are also worth renting a backhoe to remove them. They are a very desirable commodity. It's quite possible that you could recoup your investment by selling one or two of them.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Think hydraulics. Not just the kind that can give you a lift so you can lop off the spreading roots, but water under pressure to undercut what you can and then water under pressure to knock the dirt ahead of your sectioning cuts. If you have lots of water close by, it sure beats shovelling.

I'd get a good set of bypass loppers into play early, then an axe, saving the chainsaw for the roots that really need it. With luck, you'll be working in real soil rather than adobe like northern California, where a bulldozer is the only answer.

 

[Brian Hahn]

hmm....

Thanks, I suspected that they might be worth a little effort.

Michael, I like the idea of using water to cut away the soil. Might not be practical in this case, but something to remember for the future. For cutting tree roots I like to use a cutter mattock. The cutter end cuts almost as well as an axe and the rocks don't dull the blade, but it's heavy enough that it wears me out pretty fast.

Complications are setting in already. We've just had about 6 inches of snow and the temperature is supposed to be in the single digits tonight. Looks like winter is making an early sortee into the area.

Depends on the weather the next couple of weeks, but I'll atleast try to hack off some stump chunks with the chain saw. I can always go back later, it's not like they will turn into mush from the frost or dry up and blow away!

 

[Ken Grunke]

Brian, I have the feeling we're gonna have a real winter this year, so if you can't get out there with a chainsaw, I'd at least go slap some Anchorseal on the stump ends to minimize losses from cracking. Then cover them up with something to keep off the direct sun.
We also got a few inches of snow over the night, and tonight's supposed to get down to the single digits F. here in the Richland Center area--probably not too far from you, relatively speaking!

 

[DennisM]

Woth the effort in a flash

Someone I know just had a bunch of black walnut trees logged off from their woods and I'm welcome to the debris. I plan to get a couple of loads of crotch wood.

The real question is the stumps. We don't have the equipment to pull the stumps, so it seems like I'm limited to chainsaws. Is the stump wood worth the effort? How deep will I need to go to get the really good wood? I don't mind sacrificing a couple of chains if necessary.

The terrain is ridge top and the fairly steep hillsides down into the valleys. The ridge top and valleys are accessible by truck. Other conditions are starting to come into play as well. A rain this morning made the ground "slicker than snot", the season's first snow has already dropped a couple of inches, and next week is rifle deer season.

Brian;
I was also blessed with a friend that had logging done on his property and have ended up with a load of black walnut. Couple of things in this particuliar case. First, the loggers will cut the tree as low as there is good wood. The black walnut was cut to ground level. The key was they stopped cutting up the trunk at the point that the white sap wood began to be more of the log than the dark heart wood. They also left the crotches.
I have taken to discarding the sap wood and working in the dark heartwood. Plenty of wood for 8 inch bowels. The crotch wood is absolutley wonderful.
Second key was that my friend showed up at midday with an all terrain vehicle with a chart behind. Couple of trips up and out of the gulley and I had enough black walnut for a year or more.

Also saw a couple of deer - but they were running away from me. The wood didn't run - it just begged to come home with me.
Enjoy!

 

[S. Clark]

The real question is the stumps. We don't have the equipment to pull the stumps, so it seems like I'm limited to chainsaws. Is the stump wood worth the effort? How deep will I need to go to get the really good wood? I don't mind sacrificing a couple of chains if necessary.

The terrain is ridge top and the fairly steep hillsides down into the valleys. The ridge top and valleys are accessible by truck. Other conditions are starting to come into play as well. A rain this morning made the ground "slicker than snot", the season's first snow has already dropped a couple of inches, and next week is rifle deer season.

I had a neighbor across the street that sold the root burl from their walnut tree for $1200. The purchaser cut down the tree and remove the burl using carbide tipped chainsaws and a rented GradeAll to hoist the entire root section. He paid my son $100 to dig a 2' deep trench around the perimeter of the tree so that he could get down to the roots with the chainsaw. Using one carbide chain he was able to free the entire section. He told me that sometimes it requires two chains. He came prepared.

This guy resale's the burls to a mill that makes veneer from them. He said that he'd probably get $8k for the burl!

I got a lot of good crotch wood and some nice root sections and all I had to do was walk the stuff across the street. This was a win-win for everyone except the tree.

 

[underdog]

Durn,

I know a guy who wanted some help with some walnut trees..

Heck with the trees, I think I'll go dig up the stumps! I've had a lot of practice in my yard...

 

[Bob Hadley]

Here are a couple of photos from a burl excavation I did in 2000. The trees were nor more than 20 inches diameter. The smallest burl weighed maybe 2,000 pounds. The biggest was maybe 4,000.

Not all the burls yielded 100% good wood.

The burl hunter than I hooked up with paid for the back-hoe and brought his crew of three guys and they worked two days. The deal was a swap. I got all the logs and a burl and they took the rest. Of 15 trees on the property (scheduled to be cleared for condos) only 6 had intact wood. The rest were rotted or bug infested. On an old neglected orchard such as this one, it is a roll of the dice.

A burl hunter might not be the best option if you know the wood is good and have the resources to get the heavy equipment to excavate and to remove the burl.

BH

 

[Brian Hahn]

Wow!

Bob,
That's some nice burl there. Thanks for the posting. I'm definitely going to be looking at the stumps real close now.

Around here just about all the land is in crops. The areas that are too hilly or too rocky to plow are woods, which is also considered a crop and harvested periodically. With wood being so plentiful, the local mills are only interested in straight lumber. I know of one "mill" that handles figured wood like crotch boards and quarter-sawn oak, but his cutting is done by another mill and he just dries the stuff. Some of the loggers I know are aware of the value of burls and have special buyers for them.

So far, I've only seen the area that was logged once about 6 years ago. It's a mature woods and some of the walnuts were BIG. I'll be having Thanksgiving dinner with them (my brother-in-law's family) and expect I'll get more information. But right now it's gun deer season, and I can hear the rifles popping outside at I type!

Great input so far! Thanks to all!
- Brian Hahn

 

[DennisM]

Who buys the burl?

Told my friend about this story of the value of black walnut stumps. His reply was, "I can get the stumps out, but who should I contact about selling them to?" Location is central Illinois.

2 black walnut, 5 hard maple and 5 black cherry were logged earlier this month on his property and are accessable.
Any contacts names or numbers that might be interested in purchasing the burls would be appreciated.

 

[Bob Hadley]

Ask the manager/owner of your local hardwood dealer if they know any walnut burl hunters. They may even want them. At least they would know who is in the market.

BH

 

[Mark Mandell]

Dennis,

Your friend can post what he's got on the Woodweb Classifieds on their home page at http://www.woodweb.com/

Make sure he puts in his location and he can attach pix at well.

Mark

 

[DennisM]

Burls / Stumps

Thank you for the link and the information. I will pass it on to my friend.
I must admit that I am a bit confused. I had been under the impression that burls are in the main trunk of a tree. What I have been learning from this thread is that the root section of the stump is also highly prized. I have walked by stumps that had been pulled out of the ground as a subdivision was cleared. Now it seems like that was a mistake.

Can you all provide additional information on the in's and out's of using the stumps. What trees are worth the effort, how do deal with the dirt on the chain saw blade, how far down is it worthwhile to go, etc.
Many thanks

 

[Bob Hadley]

Developers usually dig up and discard walnut burls to expedite foundation work. It is simply not worth their time to fuss with properly digging around, pulling, cleaning and inspecting a bunch of heavy root balls that may or (more than likely) may not be worth something.

Sure you can saw the stump! That should be excellent wood for turning. If they have been stumps for a long time (year or more) I recommend you take a crow bar to whap the base. If it sounds hollow, it is rotted out and you do not want to cut into it unless you want to learn a new and really bad smell.

It's possible to chainsaw right at ground level, but people rarely do it to avoid dulling their chain. The only way to prevent this is not to saw at ground level.

Don't saw the stump away if there’s any chance you want to extract the root ball/burl later... you'll need it for a grab hold.

 

[MichaelMouse]

It's not uncommon when using your firewood gathering permit, to find that the loggers, even in this day of shredders, have left the burls and crotches behind. Not worth the cartage to them. They're payed by grade and BF or by the pound if pulp, and would rather get an extra log on the truck than that two foot chunk of wild wood.

I've gleaned a lot of good turning stock in this manner, because it was worth the cartage to me. Have a talk with jobbers or piececutters in your area about places recently logged, and pay a visit. Either that or let it be known that there may be a six-pack or so in the offing if they roll those lumps into the back of their pickups and bring them to your house. Beer works best on the guys, followed by a bowl or two for their wives. Money is in third place at best.

I remind my firewood man that I like big ugly lumps that they normally leave in the woods, and he generally brings a cord or three of oversize and overstressed. He's even been know to split load from two sites to give a variety of my preferred species.