Waste block

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Glenn Lefley, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    So I am going to try putting a waste block on my maple blank tommorrow. Never did this before.

    1. Should i use titebond original or titebond 111 i have both. I am going to use a maple waste block. I heard kraft paper glued in between layers helps for removal.

    2. Is it okay to glue a cheap piece of regular computer printing paper in between as i dont know where to get kraft paper.

    3. Or is it better to use 5 min epoxy? Its a 9" bowl blank.
     
  2. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Glue blocks are useful when you do not have the wood to give up for a tenon.

    Paper joints are not a good idea for bowls unless they are quite small like your 9" bowl.
    The idea is that the paper tears to release the joint. It will not withstand a catch or a heavy cut.
    I use paper joints only with spindles and us brown grocery bags.

    The best glue block joints are made Joining slightly concave surfaces. Beads of glue along the edge spread out into the recess space making a strong joint.

    I use thick CA for my glue blocks. When done the CA will break with a chisel
    Note with the CA little twist when the glue block makes contact spreads the glue out for a good bond.


    If you might get a catch either of the titebonds would be a better choice,and you will have to turn the glue block off, cut it off with a handsaw or part it off.

    Lyle Jamieson has two excellent videos on making glue joints


    View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rbZXEBIHVOU



    View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y8b35iq4LTA
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  3. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Kraft paper is a brown paper sack. Glue is able to soak into the cheaper paper better than the printer paper. Also the brown paper is easier to split. I would opt for the cheaper yellow glue. There is no need for Tightbond III If you don't have a brown paper sack, then try newspaper. I've heard that you could also use medium CA glue without the paper. It's nearly impossible to get the mating surfaces perfectly flat so it is better to have the two surfaces slightly concave by a hair because the most important thing is to have a solid wood-to-wood contact at the outer edges. If the center parts were touching and preventing tight contact at the edges there is a high probability that the glue joint will pop loose before you are ready for it to do so. :D
     
  4. odie

    odie

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    I've been using nothing but glue blocks since last century. I am almost exclusively a faceplate turner these days! :)

    Titebond 1 & 2 is fine, although I've been using Titebond 3 for quite some time. All are excellent for this purpose.

    Al makes a good point that using waste blocks means minimal waste on your wood. This is an important aspect for me, since I purchase wood, and much of it is KD 2" and 3" surface planed. I don't have the luxury of wasting any of it.....(Well, other than to eliminate major defects! :() On taller air dried seasoned roughed blanks, I still prefer wasting as little wood as possible in nearly every case.

    I did use newspaper between waste block and the main piece at one time. It does work, but you still have to deal with the foot needing to be turned......well, unless sanding or planing flat is ok with you. Since purchasing the mega jumbo, and jumbo jaws for a stronghold chuck, it is my main method of mounting the finished piece after parting off the waste block. This gives you an unobstructed access to the foot while you're shaping it.

    I use 2x4, 2x6, and 2x8 construction lumber for my waste blocks.....hand picked for as few defects as I can find. Small knots and defects are ok. Large knots, splits, and other defects are removed. The waste blocks are cut into squares with the corners cut off......octagon shape. Once mounted, they are easily brought to round.

    Waste blocks attached with Titebond does not work well for anything but KD wood, and roughed seasoned bowls with a LOW moisture content. I've heard others mention other glues that are not effected by high MC, but don't remember what they were using off hand. (I'm sure we'll hear from them soon enough!) My methods are tuned to ONLY using Titebond to attach waste blocks to bowl blanks that already are at a low MC......and, it works very well indeed! :D

    It's been ages since I used any epoxy for attaching a bowl to waste block. Glenn, you'll be fine using Titebond, as long as your wood is low MC. Epoxy will work, but isn't necessary for this purpose. For larger bowls (My largest is around 14 1/2" diameter and about 5" tall), the simple solution is to use a larger 6" waste block......for plenty of glue surface area. I almost never find it necessary to use the 8" waste blocks, but have a few of them on hand for those rare times when it's appropriate.

    Clamping can be problematic, unless you have the right set-up for getting even pressure in the center, as well as the outer edges. I have a modified bearing press for this. The hydraulic jack is discarded, and I've added a large screw. If clamping on the outer edges is desired, then C-clamps can be of help there.......

    -----odie-----

    Glue press.jpg
     
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  5. Mark Wollschlager

    Mark Wollschlager

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    No matter what glue you use, be sure it is fully set before you start.
    Overnight is ( 99%) a sure thing.
    CA glue, even with an accelerator can stay fluid for a while after you clamp up.
    I have been to classes and demos where the teacher was gluing waste blocks and turning within a very short time.
    They were successful almost every time, but most were small box or ornament blanks.
    You do not want to be in the 'throw zone' when you spin it up the first time or cut into the joint area.
    Don't forget eye protection.
     
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  6. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    I should have mentioned one thing. Since reading Odie's post. A lot of my woods are burls. These are not kiln dried and will have to be twice turned. The reason i want to use glue blocks is i was using a screw chuck but only have medium chuck jaws, so i was getting vibration on bowl blanks. 12 "
     
  7. Mark Wollschlager

    Mark Wollschlager

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    I have been using hot melt glue with burls lately.
    Low temp or dual temp sticks with a low temp gun.
    The burls are not flat surfaces so I am making shaped waste blocks.
    I use bowl blank cutoffs for wedges to secure the ares that do not sit flat on the waste block.
    The hot melt is not pretty, but it has worked for me.
    Clean up is a little tedious, but I have had not problem with unexpected release.
    Same suggestion applies about waiting for the glue to set before spinning the piece up.
     
  8. john lucas

    john lucas

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    Just about any paper will work for paper joints with the exception of water color paper. For whatever reason that just doesn't work. I have used everything from typing paper, newspaper and brown paper sacks. Even used colored construction paper. It does extend the drying time of the glue so let it sit overnight. If your wood is wet I use Polyeurethane glue for the glue blocks. Lots of great info above so I hope I filled in anything not answered.
     
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  9. odie

    odie

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    Not sure I'm understanding, or you aren't Glenn........:confused:

    A large percentage of my bowls are twice turned from woods with high MC. Are you wanting to use a waste block at the first turning, when the MC is high? If so, the Titebond glue isn't a good adhesive for this. For roughing bowls, in preparation for seasoning, I'm using a Stronghold chuck. After the roughed bowl is seasoned, then attaching the wasteblock, using Titebond glue. This is when the MC has stabilized, and the MC is low. Many of my turnings are burls and a good percentage of them start with high MC.

    If you intend to use a waste block when the MC is high, then as I mentioned previously, there are adhesives that do work, but I only mount for the initial first turning, using a Stronghold chuck. (See John Lucas' post above this one for his suggestion using polyurethane glue when the MC is high......thanks John.)

    -----odie-----
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  10. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Here is what I often do which wastes very little thickness:
    1. Mount the piece between centers with the top side towards the headstock (I used to use a screw chuck, but not much any more)
    2. Adjust it so that it is balanced and the top side is perpendicular to the bed
    3. Turn the exterior shape and make a very shallow tenon that will be larger than the foot
    4. Mount the piece in a chuck and bring up the tailstock to help hold it
    5. Turn the interior
    6. Reverse chuck using your preferred method and put the final shape on the foot
    Here's a little outline drawing to illustrate what it would look like. The lines in red show the initial exterior before reversing it and finishing the foot. Do't take thew relative size too literally. I've exaggerated it a bit for clarity (hopefully). Also, it would have been more work than I wanted to do in order to make it more realistic. In actuality, I would only rework the bottom in the vicinity of the foot and not the entire exterior as implied in the sketch. One important point is that I make sure that the center of the bottom won't bottom out in the chuck.

    Bowl Blank.jpg
     
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  11. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval

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    Mark, I hosted Guilio Marcolongo last month. He relies on hot glue a lot. I learned a trick from him. Denatured alcohol breaks down the glue, making the clean up very easy... I never really trusted it before, but I do now, and I might use it more.
     
  12. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval

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    Bill, excellent explanation, I'm impressed with the drawing. I have to submit drawings with some of my articles for the magazine, may I ask what program you used? Thank you.
     
  13. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval

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    Last century! I want the secret to eternal youth!! Drill went for only $63!
     
  14. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks.

    The program is DeltaCAD and is a bargain at forty bucks. I've been using it for nearly 25 years and I think that it is the easiest to learn and use 2-D CAD program out there and it is amazing powerful. I've used it to make some really complex engineering drawings. It now runs on both Windows and Macs.

    However, a word of warning ... Like all CAD programs, you can't just pick it up and use it without first spending time reading the manual and going through the tutorial. Becoming proficient will require using it a lot. If you took a drafting class in school that will be a big help in understanding the basics. If not then it will require additional study.
     
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  15. charlie knighton

    charlie knighton

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    I took an auto cad release 12 once upon a time....I wonder what release they are up to now?????
     
  16. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Ditto on great drawing. I use this process most of the time.
    Another level of detail is Midway through the roughing I align the grain.
    I also fine tune the grain alignment before the finish cuts.

    This method works with any scroll chuck with jaws bigger than the foot.
     
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  17. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    Charlie,

    Back around 2000 AutoCad stopped using a version number and changed over to the current year
    as a release number. The newer versions have an extensive menu selection on each side of the display
    and you need to use it on a regular basis to become proficient. They are also moving towards a yearly
    lease type program for there software releases and you usually need the latest version of windows to
    support the newest releases.
     
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