Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by odie, Jan 11, 2014.
I fell off my rickety shop stool from laughing when I saw the "also available as ... " part.
think I have figured it out
keep politics out of discussions here, not the place for it.
post deleted -- Admin
Purely a matter of my perspective, I didn't see any politics in my post, only humor intended. I thought that I had made that very obvious but apparently not.
Apologies for the post.
For me, the artistic part is to uncover what is hidden in the wood. The art is the wood itself.
Different people need different things to make their lives work for them. My business card says Wood Lathe Artist on it. I call myself that cause I believe it. Years ago I worked for a firm and did a bunch of the building fixing. the gals in the computer room started calling me The Incredible Mr. Dunn. Seems every drawer that squeeked I could fix. But I decided I liked that moniker. So, I am, The Incredible Mr. Dunn who also is a Wood Lathe Artist. I have zero doubt in both.
Yet most of my turned work is pure form. It sells. I take pride in what I do. You should take pride in what you do. Regardless of what you choose to call or not call yourself. It does not matter if I or anyone else agree with what a person calls themself. They do it cause it works for them. If someone turns a ball and calls it art? Great. is a simple pure form bowl art? I am going to probably side with the person if they say yes. Simple form is not so simple to do.
Betty mentioned Bert Marsh. Bert liked the ogee form. A very old form. But almost no one dislikes the form. Its very pleasing. Bert was not the first to use it in turning but it became associated with his name cause he did so much of it. Is his pieces art? Again I side with those who say yes.
I do lots of Hawaiian Calabash bowls. I have gotten pretty good at them. Yet consider myself a serious student of the form. They look simple yet are tough as nails to pull off. Are they art? I side with those who say yes.
Think I will head out and turn one. Cheers.
Couldn't agree more, Kelly.....and, thanks for your thoughts. A big chunk of applicable philosophy here......
I, too, consider my bowls art......and, I am an artist. As with you, it doesn't matter how others perceive me. What is important is how I see myself, and how that effects my performance as the person I believe myself to be.
As with you, I too......am a believer in the simple, but well executed curve, or form. Someone once told me how easy and simple lathe turning is, because they learned all about it in a high school shop class! Although, I would have to agree that just about anyone can make a bowl, and on the very first try.......it's only those who have put in the blood, sweat, and tears, who have, or can consistently cross the threshold between craft, and art.
You mentioned simple shapes made from simple (artistically flowing) curves.......they look so simple to those who don't know any better.......but to do it with gracefulness and artistic transition is something that takes more than desire. Call it what you will, but that certain talent, combined with the perseverance to learn all that is frustratingly hidden within the total completed effort are the only things that will yield those results that the observer will recognize as something that is special......or, art, if you will.
I'll add that embellishment can, and does confuse the issue of whether the underlying turning is done with a finely honed skill. It has a certain "camouflage" effect, in that it will serve to focus attention elsewhere. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with embellishment, or even lots of it. It has it's place among the overall residual skills that can enhance a turning.....but, embellishment in, and of itself, is not a turning skill.
I sometimes use the skew chisel to rough up the surface of my turned sculpture, while the wood is on the lathe. There's no necessity for the surface to be rough other than to embellish the surface ..... as in the tall spindle-turned example attached.
The wood is air-dried butternut, turned, the surface "embellished" on the lathe, carved, embellished area bleached, then finished with oil. The entire spindle-turned piece is about 5' long x 4" diameter.
Betty Scarpino, Editor, American Woodturner
Have you seen the bowls done with an arbortech and disc sanders? Excellent forms and you'd never know they weren't done on a lathe. I was amazed...
I have seen some bowls done with a chain saw and sanding discs.
Hard to tell they were not done on a lathe.
This has been a very interesting thread. Hopefully it continues.
The innovative spirit thrives!
Every so often, this issue comes up.
The AAWâ€™s purpose and charter is to promote the â€œPROCESSâ€ of woodturning. There is no limitation as to the end product or the significance of the turning process in the end result. This approach has created a wonderful atmosphere of diversity and curiosity not seen in other crafts. Each person brings their unique talents to the table. What a great deal for us! I do not know of anyone that does not appreciate a well-crafted vessel or bowl. Bill Luce comes to my mind as the best. I do not know anyone that cannot appreciate J. Paul Fennel's carved vessels. (Isaak P. can also play a country hoe-down if he chooses.) There is no conflict with anything on show and tell tables across the world with the AAW or its purpose.
The moment you suggest what is acceptable, may lose forever what is possible. I cannot wait to see what someone comes up with next, can you?
I am not a "real form" artist, but consider the finding and bringing out the wood's natural beauty is my "art". My art is also in the finish. Perfection is my goal with no scratches, and smoothness of the surface (altho I just bought a texturing tool) .
On my craft show tables, especially one that has bug holes, I have 2 signs. one is "nature's art", and the other is "If it don't hold soup, it's art". Don't know who coined the last phrase, sorry. Get's a lot of laughs, Gretch
I'm going to memorize this pearl of wisdom.
Iâ€™ll try a little re-set.
As it was mentioned, many years ago, the definitions have been as simple as (wood turned on a lathe). Now after years of evolution the answer, as you would expect, is not as straight forward,
I had originally asked at what point a â€œwoodturningâ€ transforms into something else but I immediately got the â€œyou can define artâ€ type of responses. I then asked, a similar but what I thought to be an easier question. What is your definition of a â€œwoodturningâ€. Only one person seemed to be able to answer this.
I am not, nor would I ever try to define art. I do believe that there must be some sort of (personal) criteria for a piece to be categorized as â€œxâ€ or â€œyâ€ I wasnâ€™t looking for a carved in stone answer, rather peoples personal interpretations.
Bill, whatâ€™s your definition of a â€œwoodturningâ€, Mark, whatâ€™s your definition of a â€œwoodturningâ, this is what I was asking..
Mine is quite simple, Ed:
"Any object made, in whole or in part, using a wood lathe and containing wood." [Caveate: No, a table that has round legs is not a woodturning within my definition ]
Your next question: "How can you tell?" Next answer: "Either it's obvious or the maker says so."
Take a look at this: https://www.google.com/search?q=Bar...%2Fartworks%2Fhepworth-pelagos-t00699;952;820
It is, quite literally, a woodturning because the original wood ball was produced on a lathe. The artist, British sculptor Barbara Hepworth, was not, however, a woodturner; she hired one to make the ball that she then carved.
But, compare that with this one by Andi Wolfe: https://www.google.com/search?q=and...www.twistedturner.com%2Faaw2005oz.htm;800;582
Andi is a turner without question. If you look at the piece carefully (not in the photo of course, but in person) you can see the shape of the bowl that it was carved from.
Now that wasn't so hard, was it?
Now I just need a few more people to answer to get a broader perspective.
So Ed (Edward?),
Whilst other members are chewing over their definitions, a question for you:
How/what does Edward Weber define a "woodturning"?
I would add to Mark's and assembled items with a majority of parts turned on a lathe.
This sort of takes most tables and the house with turned columns out if the wood turning.
It leaves in a the Piecrust candle table all of whose parts: top, center support column and three legs off the support column are turned.
Then there is the issue of materials.
Mine is not too far from yours.
A majority (51%) turned on the lathe.
A majority (51%) wood
A clarification on "majority" 51% of what? Time, surface, weight,
Time eliminates just about anything glued together: most pens, segmented etc has more work done off the lathe than on.
Surface eliminates most painted, stained, and carved pieces.
Florida state fair is coming up soon. George Dinsemore and other organizers have over the years defined 15 categories for the woodturning competition.
One of which is "other than wood"
Even with these some interpretation is left to the maker and juror. The juror has the option of moving a submission to another category.