What other turners aren't telling you, and how that relates to "innovative spirit"!

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by odie, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,125
    Location:
    Dalworthington Gardens, TX
    Home Page:
  2. hu lowery

    hu lowery

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    485
    Location:
    Roseland LA USA
    think I have figured it out

    keep politics out of discussions here, not the place for it.

    post deleted -- Admin
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2014
  3. hu lowery

    hu lowery

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    485
    Location:
    Roseland LA USA
    noted!

    Purely a matter of my perspective, I didn't see any politics in my post, only humor intended. I thought that I had made that very obvious but apparently not.

    Apologies for the post.

    Hu
     
  4. Brian McInturff

    Brian McInturff

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    303
    For me, the artistic part is to uncover what is hidden in the wood. The art is the wood itself.
     
  5. KellyDunn

    KellyDunn

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    Hawi, Hawaii
    Home Page:
    Different people need different things to make their lives work for them. My business card says Wood Lathe Artist on it. I call myself that cause I believe it. Years ago I worked for a firm and did a bunch of the building fixing. the gals in the computer room started calling me The Incredible Mr. Dunn. Seems every drawer that squeeked I could fix. But I decided I liked that moniker. So, I am, The Incredible Mr. Dunn who also is a Wood Lathe Artist. I have zero doubt in both.
    Yet most of my turned work is pure form. It sells. I take pride in what I do. You should take pride in what you do. Regardless of what you choose to call or not call yourself. It does not matter if I or anyone else agree with what a person calls themself. They do it cause it works for them. If someone turns a ball and calls it art? Great. is a simple pure form bowl art? I am going to probably side with the person if they say yes. Simple form is not so simple to do.
    Betty mentioned Bert Marsh. Bert liked the ogee form. A very old form. But almost no one dislikes the form. Its very pleasing. Bert was not the first to use it in turning but it became associated with his name cause he did so much of it. Is his pieces art? Again I side with those who say yes.
    I do lots of Hawaiian Calabash bowls. I have gotten pretty good at them. Yet consider myself a serious student of the form. They look simple yet are tough as nails to pull off. Are they art? I side with those who say yes.
    Think I will head out and turn one. Cheers.
     
  6. odie

    odie

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,420
    Location:
    Deep in the woods
    Couldn't agree more, Kelly.....and, thanks for your thoughts. A big chunk of applicable philosophy here......:D

    I, too, consider my bowls art......and, I am an artist. As with you, it doesn't matter how others perceive me. What is important is how I see myself, and how that effects my performance as the person I believe myself to be.

    As with you, I too......am a believer in the simple, but well executed curve, or form. Someone once told me how easy and simple lathe turning is, because they learned all about it in a high school shop class! Although, I would have to agree that just about anyone can make a bowl, and on the very first try.......it's only those who have put in the blood, sweat, and tears, who have, or can consistently cross the threshold between craft, and art.

    You mentioned simple shapes made from simple (artistically flowing) curves.......they look so simple to those who don't know any better.......but to do it with gracefulness and artistic transition is something that takes more than desire. Call it what you will, but that certain talent, combined with the perseverance to learn all that is frustratingly hidden within the total completed effort are the only things that will yield those results that the observer will recognize as something that is special......or, art, if you will.

    I'll add that embellishment can, and does confuse the issue of whether the underlying turning is done with a finely honed skill. It has a certain "camouflage" effect, in that it will serve to focus attention elsewhere. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with embellishment, or even lots of it. It has it's place among the overall residual skills that can enhance a turning.....but, embellishment in, and of itself, is not a turning skill.

    ooc
     
  7. Betty Scarpino

    Betty Scarpino

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    361
    I sometimes use the skew chisel to rough up the surface of my turned sculpture, while the wood is on the lathe. There's no necessity for the surface to be rough other than to embellish the surface ..... as in the tall spindle-turned example attached. :)

    The wood is air-dried butternut, turned, the surface "embellished" on the lathe, carved, embellished area bleached, then finished with oil. The entire spindle-turned piece is about 5' long x 4" diameter.

    Betty Scarpino, Editor, American Woodturner
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Brian McInturff

    Brian McInturff

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    303
    Odie,
    Have you seen the bowls done with an arbortech and disc sanders? Excellent forms and you'd never know they weren't done on a lathe. I was amazed...
     
  9. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    4,304
    Location:
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:
    Brian,
    I have seen some bowls done with a chain saw and sanding discs.

    Hard to tell they were not done on a lathe.

    Al
     
  10. Brian McInturff

    Brian McInturff

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    303
    This has been a very interesting thread. Hopefully it continues.
     
  11. Jerry Bennett

    Jerry Bennett

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    12
    The innovative spirit thrives!

    Every so often, this issue comes up.
    The AAW’s purpose and charter is to promote the “PROCESS†of woodturning. There is no limitation as to the end product or the significance of the turning process in the end result. This approach has created a wonderful atmosphere of diversity and curiosity not seen in other crafts. Each person brings their unique talents to the table. What a great deal for us! I do not know of anyone that does not appreciate a well-crafted vessel or bowl. Bill Luce comes to my mind as the best. I do not know anyone that cannot appreciate J. Paul Fennel's carved vessels. (Isaak P. can also play a country hoe-down if he chooses.) There is no conflict with anything on show and tell tables across the world with the AAW or its purpose.

    The moment you suggest what is acceptable, may lose forever what is possible. I cannot wait to see what someone comes up with next, can you?

    Jerry
     
  12. Gretch Flo

    Gretch Flo

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,222
    Location:
    Haslett, Michigan
    My art

    I am not a "real form" artist, but consider the finding and bringing out the wood's natural beauty is my "art". My art is also in the finish. Perfection is my goal with no scratches, and smoothness of the surface (altho I just bought a texturing tool) .
    On my craft show tables, especially one that has bug holes, I have 2 signs. one is "nature's art", and the other is "If it don't hold soup, it's art". Don't know who coined the last phrase, sorry. Get's a lot of laughs, Gretch
     
  13. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,125
    Location:
    Dalworthington Gardens, TX
    Home Page:
    I'm going to memorize this pearl of wisdom.
     
  14. Edward Weber

    Edward Weber

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Wilton, CA
    I’ll try a little re-set.
    As it was mentioned, many years ago, the definitions have been as simple as (wood turned on a lathe). Now after years of evolution the answer, as you would expect, is not as straight forward,

    I had originally asked at what point a “woodturning†transforms into something else but I immediately got the “you can define art†type of responses. I then asked, a similar but what I thought to be an easier question. What is your definition of a “woodturningâ€. Only one person seemed to be able to answer this.
    I am not, nor would I ever try to define art. I do believe that there must be some sort of (personal) criteria for a piece to be categorized as “x†or “y†I wasn’t looking for a carved in stone answer, rather peoples personal interpretations.
    Bill, what’s your definition of a “woodturningâ€, Mark, what’s your definition of a “woodturningâ, this is what I was asking..
     
  15. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,542
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Definition

    Mine is quite simple, Ed:

    "Any object made, in whole or in part, using a wood lathe and containing wood." [Caveate: No, a table that has round legs is not a woodturning within my definition :D]

    Your next question: "How can you tell?" Next answer: "Either it's obvious or the maker says so."

    Take a look at this: https://www.google.com/search?q=Bar...%2Fartworks%2Fhepworth-pelagos-t00699;952;820

    It is, quite literally, a woodturning because the original wood ball was produced on a lathe. The artist, British sculptor Barbara Hepworth, was not, however, a woodturner; she hired one to make the ball that she then carved.

    But, compare that with this one by Andi Wolfe: https://www.google.com/search?q=and...www.twistedturner.com%2Faaw2005oz.htm;800;582

    Andi is a turner without question. If you look at the piece carefully (not in the photo of course, but in person) you can see the shape of the bowl that it was carved from.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  16. Edward Weber

    Edward Weber

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Wilton, CA
    Now that wasn't so hard, was it? :)
    Now I just need a few more people to answer to get a broader perspective.
    Thanks
     
  17. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,542
    Location:
    New Jersey
    So Ed (Edward?),

    Whilst other members are chewing over their definitions, a question for you:

    How/what does Edward Weber define a "woodturning"?

    ;)
     
  18. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    4,304
    Location:
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:
    I would add to Mark's and assembled items with a majority of parts turned on a lathe.

    This sort of takes most tables and the house with turned columns out if the wood turning.

    It leaves in a the Piecrust candle table all of whose parts: top, center support column and three legs off the support column are turned.

    Then there is the issue of materials.

    Al
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  19. Edward Weber

    Edward Weber

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Wilton, CA
    Mine is not too far from yours.
    A majority (51%) turned on the lathe.

    A majority (51%) wood
     
  20. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    4,304
    Location:
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:

    A clarification on "majority" 51% of what? Time, surface, weight,

    Time eliminates just about anything glued together: most pens, segmented etc has more work done off the lathe than on.
    Surface eliminates most painted, stained, and carved pieces.

    Florida state fair is coming up soon. George Dinsemore and other organizers have over the years defined 15 categories for the woodturning competition.
    One of which is "other than wood"

    http://www.floridastatefair.com/pdffiles/comp-woodturning2014.pdf

    Even with these some interpretation is left to the maker and juror. The juror has the option of moving a submission to another category.

    Al
     

Share This Page