When a "push" is a "pull" .....

Discussion in 'Newbie' started by Regis Galbach, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. Regis Galbach

    Regis Galbach

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Mount Juliet, TN
    I was watching an excellent instructive live demo this morning at Tennessee Association of Woodturners. As a new turner, sometimes I take things a bit too literally. We were supposed to duplicate this 2nd turning when the demo was complete so, I was intently watching. When Jeff showed using a push cut across the outside of the bowl I was trying to make that cut in my head and it simply wouldn't work. Then *light came on* I realized that I stand on the opposite side of the tool as I'm left handed. So taking the gouge through the exact same move, at the exact same angle to me was a pull cut. I chuckled to myself after "almost" making myself even more obviously a newbie.
    I am struggling a bit using some of the tools left handed. It gives me the most problems cutting inside a vessel. I have started practicing cutting right handed and maybe that's the solution, if I live long enough.
    I've even considered standing behind the lathe and running it in reverse. One person suggested getting lathe when the headstock moves so I could stand at the end ($3,000 upgrade).

    Well, maybe I'll find some left handed youtube turners to watch or .......in a few years make some for the next generation..LOL

    Thanks Jeff Brockett and TAW for some excellent instruction and help.

    Regis
     
  2. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    4,310
    Location:
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:
    Sounds like you have it.

    In the push cut the handle is behind the cut and Pushing is done by the handle not the turner.
    The nose leads the cut.
    In the pull cut the handle is in front of the cut with the sideground gouge and the pulling is done by the handle not the turner. The nose trails the cut.

    Bottom. Line what matters most is how the cutting edge moves across the surface timcut and shaped nit how or withnwhat hands you hold the tool.

    Many turners learn to switch the lead hands when the they turn. It makes it easy to see the shape develop.
     
    Bill Boehme and Regis Galbach like this.
  3. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,136
    Location:
    Dalworthington Gardens, TX
    Home Page:
    Although I'm right handed I can also turn left handed when necessary. However, a push or pull cut is all about how the tool is presented to the wood as Al said and not whether you use the tool as a righty or a lefty.

    When I'm doing a push cut, generally it's the nose of the tool that is doing the cutting or sometimes the wing but still right next to the nose. And as AI said, the cutting edge is ahead of the handle because the tool is being pushed along. The tool is normally used level when making a push cut.

    Whenever I'm doing a pull cut it's like Al said, the handle leads the cutting edge as the tool is being pulled towards you ... and, the cutting is being done with the wing of the tool. There are various ways of using the tool to make a pull cut: tool level, handle dropped down about 45 degrees, and handle dropped 60 degrees or more to do shear cutting. You can also do shear scraping with the handle low by rolling the tool until the flutes are facing the wood, but only the lower flute touches the wood.

    My preference is to use a pull cut with the handle dropped low when I can, but others might prefer the handle level or using a push cut. Sometimes getting the cleanest cut works better using the technique that you don't prefer. :D

    I hope this is a little more clear than mud.
     
    Regis Galbach likes this.
  4. Regis Galbach

    Regis Galbach

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Mount Juliet, TN
    I like to try to visualize a cut before making it because I've not yet learned any automatic ways yet. These descriptions have definitely helped me, regardless of what side of the tool I stand on.
    No, it's not mud, I actually understand what you 2 are saying.
    Thanks,
    Regis
     
  5. John Torchick

    John Torchick

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,135
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    I'm fortunate to be ambidextrous for most things. Working in R&D for two appliance manufacturers dictated you learn or widen your vocabulary by a number of words and phrases.
    Interesting thread and posts. Will reread later to gather details of the techniques.
     
  6. Barry Crowder

    Barry Crowder

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    DFW, TX, USA
    I think the push vs. pull issue has been covered, but I thought I'd add one more little tidbit. I find pull cuts to be a challenge my small (10") lathe because there is often something in the way when I try to get the handle low like it needs to be to do a proper pull cut. The width of the tool rest, the position of the banjo locking arm, and the tool post locking lever often get in the way. The obstruction is small, but it's enough to matter in many cases.

    If I try to do a pull cut without proper clearance of the handle, I sometimes end up with a bad angle on the wing, and get a catch. As a result, I tend to use push cuts more often.

    I suspect that a different toolrest design will help. It's on my list of things to do.
     
    hockenbery and Regis Galbach like this.
  7. john lucas

    john lucas

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Cookeville TN USA
    Push and pull is not really a good description. When I learned the handle down bevel rubbing technique I learned it as a pull cut. In other words I was pulling the gouge toward me. Later on I learned that I could do this exact same cut with the handle down flute forward but I'm standing behind the gouge and pushing. When I first started making hand mirrors I did a push cut from outside to middle. Later I wanted the middle to be thicker than the outside and so I needed to cut from the center out to be cutting downwill with the grain. I started the push cut with the nose of the tool in the center and I guess it's still kind of a push cut but I am pulling my hands toward me.
    Left handed, right hand, you eventually learn to use either hand. Like the basketball player said when someone asked if he could shoot with both hands. He said yes I'm amphibious..
     
    Bill Boehme and Regis Galbach like this.
  8. Regis Galbach

    Regis Galbach

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Mount Juliet, TN
    John,
    Now THAT is a quote that I must remember!

    Thanks again everyone for all the tips and help. Maybe next year I'll even get something in the gallery here..
    Regis
     
  9. John Torchick

    John Torchick

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,135
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    "Like the basketball player said when someone asked if he could shoot with both hands. He said yes I'm amphibious.."
    Wonder where he went to school.
     
  10. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,136
    Location:
    Dalworthington Gardens, TX
    Home Page:
    So, the coach put him on the water basketball team... :D
     
    Regis Galbach likes this.
  11. odie

    odie

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,424
    Location:
    Deep in the woods
    it seems as though when using a push cut, the best cut is closer to the nose than when using the same gouge in a pull cut. I guess there is a good reason for that, but I don't exactly know what it is.......:confused:

    -----odie-----
     
    Regis Galbach likes this.
  12. robo hippy

    robo hippy

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,867
    Location:
    Eugene, OR
    I kind of scratch my head about the pull/push cuts. I see demonstrations of both and some times the only difference I can see is which side of the handle you are on when making the cut. My push cut uses mostly the nose to cut, and the handle is pretty much level, though many drop the handle and cut more or less with the wing. I don't think I had seen a pull cut where the nose is doing most of the cutting though.

    robo hippy
     
    Regis Galbach likes this.
  13. odie

    odie

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,424
    Location:
    Deep in the woods

    robo.......I have used the nose on a pull cut in a very limited way.....by pulling the nose around the surface of a bead on the rim. Other than that, I can't think of a time when there is any advantage to using the nose of a gouge in a pull cut.

    -----odie-----
    1469 quilted maple (2).JPG
     
    Regis Galbach likes this.

Share This Page