When is it turning, and when is it carving?

[rightuppercut]

I know there are very talented people who frequent this forum. Many of these people enhance thier turnings with beautiful carvings and the like. But with the recent footed bowls contest, it seems to me, in some cases, the turning aspect got thrown out the window. I know enhancements make a turning pop out and say "look at me", but I thought we were The American Association of Woodturners, not woodcarvers. I think if you spend more time carving than you do turning, well you can take it from there. I am not saying these are not beautiful pieces of art. They are. And I wish I had just some of the talent that is displayed here. I guess I've opened a can of worms here, but I think a line should be drawn as to whether it is a turning or a carving. 0031713 G

 

[Paul Stolarik]

Turning vs. Carving

I have asked myself that question quite a lot when looking through the member galleries. I can tell you that for myself I am a turner not a carver. My design was relatively simple compared to some of the other entries, and I found the carving portion to be very tedious. I have all the respect for those that can carve, paint, and do all the other sorts of embellishments that people do on their turnings. I enjoy looking at their artwork. For me, I guess the difference would be whether the carving is an enhancement to the turning or was the turning simply a tool to make the carving easier. I am sure this thread will get a lot of action, since in my short time turning this seems to be a subject that many people have a very passionate opinion on.

 

[Brian Hahn]

Does it matter?

A shape is created on the lathe. I think that is called turning.

The turning is then used as a base for further work. More wood could be removed via carving; the color could be changed; the piece could be disassembled and reassembled, etc. It seems to me, once a turning, always a turning. (unless it becomes designer firewood ).

People also turn non-wood materials like polyester pens and alibaster bowls. Those things are normally accepted as turnings because they were done on a wood lathe.

My question is: Why does it matter?

 

[George Guadiane]

I know there are very talented people who frequent this forum. Many of these people enhance thier turnings with beautiful carvings and the like. But with the recent footed bowls contest, it seems to me, in some cases, the turning aspect got thrown out the window. I know enhancements make a turning pop out and say "look at me", but I thought we were The American Association of Woodturners, not woodcarvers. I think if you spend more time carving than you do turning, well you can take it from there. I am not saying these are not beautiful pieces of art. They are. And I wish I had just some of the talent that is displayed here. I guess I've opened a can of worms here, but I think a line should be drawn as to whether it is a turning or a carving. 0031713 G

I have to say, that this has to be an individual thing, and that if the idea is to have a turned thing with carving, you have to decide for yourself where to draw the line. The time it takes is often only relative to your experience at it. My first (successful) turning took many times longer than anything comparable I would do now...
SO, a carver might labor over the turning part and ZIP through the carving part.
Bottom line, while I have my personal preferences, I think we can make room for everyone.
As to the contest, as in all other "art," the rules are either specific or general. You have no way of knowing whether these items were presented in the spirit of the contest and/or the letter of the "law" (rules) or not. I assume that everyone who submitted items read the rules and believed that they were, and/or intended to be in compliance. Take MY entry for instance. I took the "easy" way out by using the cutoff from a segmented project that defined what my feet should look like, for me.
I have made it my business to only comment in a positive way on pictures posted on the site, and to not post about the things that I don't care for (PLEASE, I don't mean that any of the pieces that I fail to comment on are "not to my taste," I don't have time to comment on everything - not that anyone really needs my comments - I just respond to those things that really "speak to me").

 

[Brujo]

Why does it matter?

A lathe is just a tool, one of many that most people on this site use to end up with a final desired result. In my opinion the amount of time the piece spent on the lathe has little bearing. For example if you are into segmented work, you will spend much more time on the table saw, miter saw, and sander than you ever do on the lathe. Is it still wood turning...of course? I see no difference between segmented embellishments and carving/texturing.

This discussion and the many others like it seem to me not to be about woodturning but about art. The most common uses (I have seen for a lathe) are making containers and other utilitarian objects such as candlestick holder’s spoons, peppermills, etc. Aiding in the construction of architectural objects and creating art. Granted there is overlap between all of these categories (and this is a blatant simplification of the issue) but these type of discussions seem to pit against each other those who want to turn utilitarian objects and those who want to create art.

Just because an object can be considered a carving, mixed-media, or painting does not mean that it can not also be considered woodturning. I think if it was put on a lathe for any amount of time it is still wood turning. I consider this tread very similar to artists who do not consider some woodturning sculpture because it was mostly made on a machine. As an art or craft grows in popularity all will bring their own unique interpretation of it.

I do not think this site should be a place where we put labels on peoples work by saying what it is or isn't...but a place where people interested in working on the lathe can come and share ideas, experiences, and techniques so that we can all grow a little in the discipline we have chosen.

I have to ask this... What is the point of bring up a discussion that has very little chance of increasing anybodies knowledge, but has a great chance of making people choose sides and becoming a divisive issue?

If your goal is to be a photo of the day or win the various contests I can see this being a problem. For example I'm farily sure I will never win either considering I generally do not embelish my work and stick to natural edges and smoothe lines. Doing this type of work is what i like to do even though it does not always make a spectacular piece to take a picture of to enter in the contests. Do I think the carvers and other embelishers have an advantage over me...hell ya I do. Don't hate them for it respect them for taking a art/craft to the next level. When I'm in a gallery looking at turnings the few I've come home with are always the ones I couldn't of made myself.

 

[dkulze]

I have to chime in on the "what does it matter?" aspect that Brian mentioned.

In art and craft (and pretty much everything else too), when there is an innovation, change, or addition to the style, it's often considered somewhat heretical and can create a controversy on whether these changes are legitimate. Just look at the impressionist and cubist movements in painting, adding sound or color to film (the "talkies" were considered a stunt and a dead end), power tools in woodworking, Andy Warhol's industrialization of art.

For me, the only time it matters is if you are setting up a contest or gallery with specific expectations or limitations. Under those circumstances, it seems legitimate to define what is "A" and what is "B". An example would be the footed bowl challenge, where you have to make a bowl with feet. An unfooted bowl, though a turning, would not qualify. A footed bowl that touched the lathe for 5 minutes and is fully carved after that would.

What does it matter if it is a "turning" or a "carving" beyond those criteria? It's all art or craft and it's all attractive or not. Seems to me that that's what matters.

Dietrich

 

[john lucas]

Deitrich and Brujo stated my thoughts much better than I could. I think it only matters in a contest. Then the rules need to be spelled out clearly.
someone brings up this argument or something similar every so often. I remember when painting a piece got really nasty comments. That seems to be much more acceptable now. I think carving and texturing will follow the same route.
For me personally it's all about the piece. Not how I got there and quite often not even what wood I use. Everything works together to produce the work and that's all that counts for me.

 

[GA Darling]

Well, I guess I'll throw my thoughts in here. After reading the rules for the contest, I didn't see where carving was not allowed. Each bowl entered fulfilled the requirement of being footed in one way or another. Each bowl fulfilled the requirement of at least some portion being turned.
That being said, not all of the entries were to my liking. However, each and every entry showed thought, skills, and talent. What more could one ask for?
I'm just glad I didn't have the job of picking a winner.

GA. Darling

 

[Vernon Oberle]

what about ugly wood?

Sometimes you get a piece of wood that is so plain or so b*** ugly that it screams for you to do something to it to make it a keeper. Some wood is so figured that to carve or paint it would be a terrible sin. I think part of it is adding different skills to your personal tool kit. I like to try new and different things so that I don't get bored with just doing bowls or something else. Whatever you do adds to your personal perspective and lets you look at every shape or style with an open mind.

Vernon

 

[GeorgeH]

I am both a wood turner and wood carver. IMHO, if it's turned on the lathe it's a turning. If it's carved with a carving knife it's a carving. If it's turned on a lathe and carved it's a carved turning. I've done some carved turnings but never tried to turn carving ... it's one of those "don't put the cart before the horse" issues.
Frankly, if I were judging "turnings" I'd eliminate items with carved elements. That's because I'm judging turning designs/skills, not carving designs/skills.
I would, however, entertain the idea of a "Carved Turnings" category in a turning competition. Much the same as in wood carving competition where they often make a distinction between traditional carving methods and power tool/machine carving.

 

[almather]

I'll chime in, somewhat in the opposite direction. Several years ago when I first joined and received my first magazine I was turned off. I saw very little turning, or so I thought. My thoughts were that this was an association of post-turning artists. Most turners are first shaped by a saw of some kind, then we move to the lathe and than on to what? In my mind, if I see a turned piece that has been major-ly transformed by carving or some other means it is not longer a turning, it is a carving. Yes, turning had a part in it, like my saw has a part in most of my work. I am doing a little post-turning work, and if I develop that in a significant manner I think I will label myself a carver, or whatever, instead of a turner because I would view my turning to be an important element but not the the predominant aspect of my work.

I do admire the carving, piercing, etc. I just think the organization is a little mis-named as represented by the work often presented. Maybe some like ". . . woodturners and post-turning artists"?

Al

 

[George Guadiane]

I'll chime in, somewhat in the opposite direction. Several years ago when I first joined and received my first magazine I was turned off. I saw very little turning, or so I thought. My thoughts were that this was an association of post-turning artists. Most turners are first shaped by a saw of some kind, then we move to the lathe and than on to what? In my mind, if I see a turned piece that has been major-ly transformed by carving or some other means it is not longer a turning, it is a carving. Yes, turning had a part in it, like my saw has a part in most of my work. I am doing a little post-turning work, and if I develop that in a significant manner I think I will label myself a carver, or whatever, instead of a turner because I would view my turning to be an important element but not the the predominant aspect of my work.

I do admire the carving, piercing, etc. I just think the organization is a little mis-named as represented by the work often presented. Maybe some like ". . . woodturners and post-turning artists"?

Al

Your post cleared up an underlying puzzle for me, I couldn't put my finger on it. Why qualify these things so rigidly?
I am, in MY mind a turner who does some unusual low tech segmenting. To my knowledge there are not many (if any) taking my approach yet. How would I be identified? Malcolm Tibbits turns everything he uses as far as I know, how do we identify HIM?
Why call yourself anything but an artist, artisan, craftsman (woman/person)? Why not just bask in the glory of appreciation of those that like your work and leave the rest behind? Why not allow that everything is part of something else. I have cut down a tree or two for the wood, am I a lumberjack who turns wood??? Who cares?
In one of my "clubs," we have this saying: "Take What You Like and Leave The Rest." Works here too.

 

[dkulze]

Having made my statement earlier regarding "why does it matter", I gotta throw in a small comment toward Al's side. I'm not a turner who does alot of carving, painting, or dyes on my pieces. Just not my particular style. So it is a little frustrating for me also to have what often feels like a majority of articles in the AAW magazine focus on heavilly carved work and on how to carve and alter your work. I end up feeling kinda gracious when an article focuses more direction on a aspect that is primarilly on the TURNING of the piece.

To use an analogy that matches with my earlier ones, this would be kinda like subscribing to a magazine on black and white film making that kept running articles on creative use of color to highlight your black and white film (Sin City, etc.).

Nuf said.

dietrich

 

[Paul Engle]

I whole heartedly agree with nuturner, some of us could no way compete with others in say just the turning aspect, but to add skills way up the chain like carving, texturing and so forth ... no contest. it would be gracious to seperate those who can from us who can't so we compete with our peers not with those who rank above us due to skill , monetary ( better /more tools and stuff ) . Certain elements should compete with each other. Those of us on budgets or just for fun should not be subject to compete with those intense turners with resources to outclass us before we even get some wood home to turn. Of course the argument is made for " don't compete with those guys then" if you are a " casual sunday turner" so hozabout a contest for the casual turner like some of us?

 

[Brian Hahn]

And where does segmented turning fit in?

Brujo and ByGeorge mentioned segmented turning and Malcolm Tibbetts. Technically, segmented turning is a whole lot of flat work with a little turning at the end.

So is it really a turning?

Or does the fact that it has been around for a long time (decades at least) make it acceptable?

And if time makes something acceptable, then carving on turning is a shoe-in. It has been around for centuries.

 

[rightuppercut]

Of course it is

Of course segmented turning should be considered turning. The final form is turned on the lathe with turning tools and techniques. But when you take the piece from the lathe and change its form, it then becomes a carving.

 

[Jake Debski]

Gonna put my foot in it I just know it.

Those that can, DO...........period. I look to them for inspiration and ideas. "Jeez I can't do that, but maybe if I work at it...............someday." It's important to remember some of us will never get to that level, does that mean we shouldn't try to get closer and while trying we can certainly enjoy the journey. A turner is a turner, some are just better at it than others. "And so it goes."

 

[George Guadiane]

Brujo and ByGeorge mentioned segmented turning and Malcolm Tibbetts. Technically, segmented turning is a whole lot of flat work with a little turning at the end.

First of all, my segmenting takes MUCH less time than the turning part... That's the reason I do it that way.Second, Malcolm segments, turns and segments again. I too had difficulty accepting his work as "turning," but after sitting through several of his demos last October, I had to come off of that high horse. His turning, from what I gathered is AS significant as any other part of the process, AND, if you look at his work with understanding of his process, you can see the turning. Beyond that, his stuff really is just cool IMHO.

 

[George Guadiane]

Let me see if there is any more space in "it" for me to join you

Those that can, DO...........period. I look to them for inspiration and ideas. "Jeez I can't do that, but maybe if I work at it...............someday." It's important to remember some of us will never get to that level, does that mean we shouldn't try to get closer and while trying we can certainly enjoy the journey. A turner is a turner, some are just better at it than others. "And so it goes."

Like surfing (I surf),I think that turning is a really personal thing... SOME of us (like me) don't EVER want to do some of the stuff we see, no matter how much we admire it. So, we will never TRY to get to that level.
As a rule, I don't like contests, because of the stress it causes. I have no trouble entering and not winning, BUT... Last year, I unexpectedly won a carving ribbon for a nice but small and simple piece. SEVERAL people let it be known that I should not have won (after the time and technique that THEY had put in). One even wondered if I "knew one of the judges or something." Kind of took some of the shine off...
The problem seems to come when others feel that they have been slighted in some way.
In my mind, it's not about better or worse than others, it's about your best and doing better and/or being satisfied. Like with surfing, my advice is:
If your not having fun, get out of the water and make room for those of us who are.

 

[GeorgeH]

... SEVERAL people let it be known that I should not have won (after the time and technique that THEY had put in). One even wondered if I "knew one of the judges or something." Kind of took some of the shine off...

If your avatar is any indication of the kind of work you're capable of, you'll never need to "know" any of the judges. You've already got more talent than I'll ever have.
Getting back to the point at hand, I stand by my original comments. To the point of "segmented" turning; it certainly qualifies as "turning". Just because you cut out and glue up the pieces for the raw material from which to turn the finished article (I do it a lot with odds and ends from which I make blocks for turning interesting pepper mills) doesn't disqualify it as a turned piece. Whatever you do to the raw material, if you turn it throughout its length as the last step prior to applying a finish, it's turning.

 

[GA Darling]

As I continue to read this thread it's quite clear there are as many opinions on this subject as there are turning or carving styles. The only way I can see to solve the problem is to make someone sit down and write very specific rules as to what will be accepted for a contest.
To me this would take the fun out of entering the contest. A contest among other things is supposed to be fun.


GA Darling

 

[Kenneth Hertzog]

I usually don't comment on the contests because I don't enter into them. In this case I looked at each object and wondered how they could have put them on the lathe for more than just a few minutes. I thought that they were very nicely done. The other question was in the rules. Maybe what they should have said was they must start on the lathe and be able to be chucked back into the lathe when done. I know that any piece that I would have entered would have met this rule. ( but it would not have been near as nice)
ken

 

[George Guadiane]

The other question was in the rules. Maybe what they should have said was they must start on the lathe and be able to be chucked back into the lathe when done.
ken

Then someone would have to define chucked back on. Is jamb chucking acceptable... Jumbo Jaws... Double sided tape?
By the way, it's hard to tell your skill level and artistic comprehension if you don't post pictures.

 

[Kenneth Hertzog]

George
If you want to see some of the things I do go to the shave brush currently on page 2 of the main forum. I posted 5 of the shave brushes I have turned from acrylic and one from Oak. I currently use the oak one. I do about 5 high end craft shows a year as well as custom work for others. how many pictures would you like to see. I specialize in small craft items just because there is no pictures doesn't mean I don't own a lathe.
ken

 

[George Guadiane]

If your avatar is any indication of the kind of work you're capable of, you'll never need to "know" any of the judges. You've already got more talent than I'll ever have.

Getting back to the point at hand, I stand by my original comments. To the point of "segmented" turning; it certainly qualifies as "turning". Just because you cut out and glue up the pieces for the raw material from which to turn the finished article (I do it a lot with odds and ends from which I make blocks for turning interesting pepper mills) doesn't disqualify it as a turned piece. Whatever you do to the raw material, if you turn it throughout its length as the last step prior to applying a finish, it's turning.

Thank you NutTurner! I'm not thinking of myself as "better than" anyone else (and I know you didn't imply that). I just want to do my best, and I want to see the best from others... as with surfing, SO LONG AS THEY ARE STILL HAVING FUN.

 

[George Guadiane]

George
If you want to see some of the things I do go to the shave brush currently on page 2 of the main forum. I posted 5 of the shave brushes I have turned from acrylic and one from Oak. I currently use the oak one. I do about 5 high end craft shows a year as well as custom work for others. how many pictures would you like to see. I specialize in small craft items just because there is no pictures doesn't mean I don't own a lathe.
ken

I looked, QUITE NICE. A thing doesn't have to be big or fancy or posted on the site to be good... It just needs to be done to the best of your ability or desire. I can see that you are not satisfied with average work.
Oh, and I really did figure you had a lathe

 

[john lucas]

I got stuck in traffic on the way home and got to thinking about this carving thing. Turners have been carving almost since day one. Look at any bedpost. Many have carved flutes, spiral carving, pineapple carving and other things.
How many collumns have you seen that have carved leaves on the top. These are copies of greek columns that were carved stone of course.
Lots of early furniture had turned elements that were also carved. Look at a Cabriole leg. Although it could be totally carved many were started on the lathe and then the upper part is carved. How about a pie crust table. The top is often turned and then carved.
One argument is that carvers have more tools, skills etc. I disagree. You don't need lots of tools or even fancy tools. See the clock I carved about 8 to 10 years ago. I used a dremel and a woodrasp to do the legs. What sets a good carving apart is imagination. That's what we see in the intries for this contest. Imagination.
Now the argument over skill levels has some merit although that argument carries forward to all levels. I have a lot of skills now but when I look at the top guys and gals I am truely humbled. It's kind of like gunslingers of the old west. No matter how good you are, someone is always better. That's life and I guess we have to find out where we fit in.

 

[George Guadiane]

I got stuck in traffic on the way home and got to thinking about this carving thing. Turners have been carving almost since day one. Look at any bedpost. Many have carved flutes, spiral carving, pineapple carving and other things.

NICE Clock! Cool idea.
When you put things in that context, turners are really just inadequate woodworkers. From the times you are talking about, diversity was expected of everyone who had a trade. joinery, turning, carving were all a part of the cabinet maker's bag of tricks. As we have specialized we have lost layers of ability. SO... should we take away points for a deeper interest in the larger discipline or "can't we all just get along?"
Back to the clock: The theme was well considered and carried out.

 

[waltben]

I think the real question is . .

What this organization should really be calling itself. If it's an association of woodturners, then contest pieces shouldn't be judged by carving, coloring, milling, etc., but only by the turning skills and methods used. On the other hand, there is much to be said about the art created by all these other things. I once suggested that we should be named "The American Association of Whatever You Want To Do To Wood", but that isn't totally correct either.

As for me - I'm a minimalist.

 

[George Guadiane]

What this organization should really be calling itself. If it's an association of woodturners, then contest pieces shouldn't be judged by carving, coloring, milling, etc., but only by the turning skills and methods used. On the other hand, there is much to be said about the art created by all these other things. I once suggested that we should be named "The American Association of Whatever You Want To Do To Wood", but that isn't totally correct either.

As for me - I'm a minimalist.

OK, but can you tell me, in this particular contest how the feet could be crated without carving?

 

[john lucas]

by george They could be turned and added as seperate components but then do you call it segmented or polychromatic. I do agree most feet are carved.

 

[George Guadiane]

by george They could be turned and added as seperate components but then do you call it segmented or polychromatic. I do agree most feet are carved.

It really feels odd. What is the REAL issue??? This might sound harsh, I don't know how else to put it out there, but it almost feels like there is a group who is working with the "if I can't do this (or don't want to) then we shouldn't have to deal with it" kind of mindset. This is SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. If it isn't fun don't play.
They threw up a challenge, I was one that took it up. There ARE things that I would chose not to try, this I did. What happens if we just enjoy the work of others and do what we want with our on wood and time (unless you want to turn stone or METAL, then we have to send you to ??? :cool2:

 

[C Edward Moore]

Contests and judging

When we enter a contest we assume that the judging process will produce an absolute BEST selection. WRONG!! Think about it. If we enter a contest to make the best widget and someone's widget is selected, does that mean that by some absolute standard the selected widget is best? No! It means that on a given day someone selected a widget that in their opinion was deserving of recognition.

As a former math professor I observed a situation where someone was given a teaching award. I was puzzled by the selection because I knew of about five people in that person's department who were more deserving of that award than the selectee. It finally dawned on me that the process was not designed to select the best teacher for that year, but rather it identified a teacher who, by some criteria, was chosen to be honored that year.

So, if you enter a widget contest and your widget is not selected, it in no way demeans you, your ability, or your widget. It simply means that someone else's widget was honored this time. So in the acronym attributed to a decorated U.S. Marine, LT Clebe McClary, "FIDO!" "Forget It, Drive On!"

 

[MichaelMouse]

My lathe has a switch labelled ON / OFF. When it's turned to the OFF position, what I do is no longer turning.

 

[Gretch Flo]

right on

My lathe has a switch labelled ON / OFF. When it's turned to the OFF position, what I do is no longer turning.

Michael-I like that!!!!!!I even understood what you said!! Gretch

 

[John Abt]

This a really interesting thread.

I understand some of the frustration felt that a "pure" turner feels if they've lost a juried show to an embellished turning (some folks have called them "damaged" turnings.)

Our craft is diverse enough to allow people of all skill levels to find and express themselves to whatever degree they wish. I'll never become s David Ellsworth, but I sure am going to try and enjoy myself in the process.

As far as juried show are concerned, I can't see any way to quantify the judging process. Even using weighted criteria, in the end it all becomes subjective to the judges involved. My only real suggestion is that some of the competitions split into "standard" turnings and "embellished" turnings. Now we come to discussions of the types om embellishments.

Picture how boring this would all be if we just limited ourselves to turning a piece of wood and doing nothing else (I have no choice myself since I'm still learning tool control). What would this field be without David Ellsworth, Donald Derry, Trent Bosch, Binh Pho and all of the others that have the talent to express themselves and inspire others? Our next discussion thread could wind up being "What actually constitutes a salad bowl?"

 

[Brian Hahn]

My lathe has a switch labelled ON / OFF. When it's turned to the OFF position, what I do is no longer turning.

So does that mean that hand sanding changes the object from a turned item to a hand-sanded item?

And finishing makes it a oiled/varnished item that is no longer a turning?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Brian Hahn]

So the real issue is...

So this is really the quarterly moan about the turning contest!

The rules seem fairly clear:
"3. Any and all bowl submissions will be considered but they should have feet (don't 'cha know)! "
and:
"Let your imagination run wild, this is supposed to be fun!!!"

Seems too many people are loosing sight of the fun part.

 

[George Guadiane]

When we enter a contest we assume that the judging process will produce an absolute BEST selection. WRONG!! Think about it. If we enter a contest to make the best widget and someone's widget is selected, does that mean that by some absolute standard the selected widget is best? No! It means that on a given day someone selected a widget that in their opinion was deserving of recognition.

As a former math professor I observed a situation where someone was given a teaching award. I was puzzled by the selection because I knew of about five people in that person's department who were more deserving of that award than the selectee. It finally dawned on me that the process was not designed to select the best teacher for that year, but rather it identified a teacher who, by some criteria, was chosen to be honored that year.

So, if you enter a widget contest and your widget is not selected, it in no way demeans you, your ability, or your widget. It simply means that someone else's widget was honored this time. So in the acronym attributed to a decorated U.S. Marine, LT Clebe McClary, "FIDO!" "Forget It, Drive On!"

As I posted earlier:"Last year, I unexpectedly won a carving ribbon for a nice but small and simple piece. SEVERAL people let it be known that I should not have won (after the time and technique that THEY had put in). One even wondered if I "knew one of the judges or something." Kind of took some of the shine off..."
Since I don't know their criteria for the assessment that you described, I really can't say more than this. NONE OF US can say, even for a moment, what is in the judges heads and/or hearts. In my case, for instance, I found out from a "reliable source" that one of the judges wanted to give my simple little carving (not a turning) the Best In Show ribbon. Another of the judges made it their business to see that this didn't happen (which is fair, since there were many - in my opinion - pieces that were more worthy. I was surprised to have gotten the blue).
I am almost a "black helicopter" guy myself, I "KNOW" that "they" are "out to get us," but I don't see that "the fix is in" under every circumstance, or that these things ever make sense. We are talking about art and artists. What moves one might not move another.
To that end, win or lose, "FIDO" is a good credo (I wonder if anyone will get that reference) in any eventuality. If you win or "lose," don't let that change your path. Unless there is a really big check attached, it certainly won't change your life.

 

[George Guadiane]

So does that mean that hand sanding changes the object from a turned item to a hand-sanded item?

And finishing makes it a oiled/varnished item that is no longer a turning?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

And you beat me to it