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Which is more important.......

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by odie, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. odie

    odie

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    Knowledge, or experience. I know that many will say it's a combination of the two, but if you could separate them for analysis, which would be the more important to a turner's progress?

    Have a good day, guys and gals.....:D

    -----odie-----
     
  2. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    odie, I find it hard to separate the two. To me, it is a circular pattern- experience leads to knowledge and knowledge leads to experience, etc.
    BTW, I like the hat!
     
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  3. Dave Fritz

    Dave Fritz

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    Thinking like John, can you have experience without gaining knowledge? For me, there really is no substitute for holding a gouge in my hands and working with the wood so I guess experience is more important for me. I'm anxious to hear what others may say.
     
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  4. odie

    odie

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    I suppose I should give my thoughts.......

    For my way of looking at it, I'd venture that a little bit of knowledge, and a whole lot of experience leads to "individuality", and individual progress to a much higher degree than.......a lot of knowledge and minimal amount of experience.

    In other words......time in the saddle is more important to me, than searching for answers someone else might give me. It might take more time to gain knowledge, but the experience in gaining that "hands on" knowledge is golden! :D

    ---------------------------------

    Thanks about the photo, John. It's my effort to develop an online "eccentric old guy personality". (Actually, I left my pick, shovel, and gold pan outside on Betsy the mule!) :rolleyes::)

    -----odie-----
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  5. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    Depends on which of the two turners has deeper pockets or available time to devote to the craft.
    If you have the time to read books and watch video's you can advance your skills.
    If you spend hours on a lathe honing your skills with the different tools you can advance your skills.
    It helps to have the knowledge and understanding of the proper use of each tool and the wood types being cut.
    If you understand why the wood is reacting a certain way to the presentation of the tool you will be able
    to apply this understanding to the other tools and wood types being turned.
    If you have disposable income you can attend hands on training seminars and advance your skills.
    Most people will only retain a minimal amount of knowledge or skills from any amount of training.
    If you don't apply that knowledge or learned skill within a period of time you can forget them.
    Time is the other variable that has the most effect on the outcome.
     
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  6. john lucas

    john lucas

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    Experience. That is why if you ask 10 turners how to do something you get 10 different answers. Just a subtle difference in the grinds you use makes you learn to use them differently than I might. I find time at the lathe is a wonderful teacher. That being said, Knowledge up front speeds up the learning curve tremendously. We have all had those slap your forehead kind of experiences when you finally realize there is a really cool way of doing something. Then you find out later that someone else has been doing it for years. You could have learned from them and saved a whole lot wasted time.
    Tool control I find is something that can only be learned by time at the lathe. Someone can show you a technique but until you really spend the time at the lathe and practice you will never be good at that technique.
     
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  7. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Knowledge
    If you don’t learn anything from experience it was wasted time
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  8. R Henrickson

    R Henrickson

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    Knowledge without experience is at best theoretical. Knowledge, however, can suggest avenues or ideas which can perhaps be useful/interesting IF ACTED ON. I have become aware of things -- 'knowlege 'e.g., types of turning -- some with techniques suggested, others without. It was only when I actually attempted making/doing that I learned something useful. In many cases my approach quickly diverged from how it was originally done.
     
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  9. Hy Tran

    Hy Tran

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    Being able to apply knowledge is most valuable.

    Experience is one (but not the only) way to acquire knowledge. (Don't ask me how I know that)
     
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  10. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    To add, I recall a saying: Experience is the best teacher. For instance, a college friend commented that he learned more behind the schoolhouse than inside it.
     
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  11. Lamar Wright

    Lamar Wright

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    Learning new methods of turning anything else other than making pens (ie Bowls, platters ect.) I think knowledge is the most important for me now. I have to learn knowledge before I gain experience.;)
     
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  12. odie

    odie

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    And what about those who do learn from experience? Not all turners are the same as those who get nowhere by using their own initiative. :eek:

    As I see it, sometimes gaining knowledge by mentoring, or the classroom, is the same as adding a rudder to the directions any individual may take. By adding that rudder, it eliminates possibilities that could have been, and never will be. o_O :D

    "Stick time"......"Time in the saddle".....those old sayings didn't come about by accident!

    -----odie-----
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  13. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    I read it on the internet it must be true!
    Knowledge is based on what you are taught and what you perceive (right or wrong).
    Our knowledge and understanding hopefully improves over time from personal experience.
    The world was flat at one time and it seems there are some that still believe in that today. :eek:
     
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  14. Bob Mezzatesta

    Bob Mezzatesta

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    In my case knowledge enters through my eyes and ears. Experience enters through my hands. My brain forgets faster than my hands. Probably that's just me.
     
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  15. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Odie I thought you might be going hermit on us. To me experience is knowledge and knowledge leads to experience. I cannot see one existing without the other however there is the seeking of knowledge to understand why there is a procedure to accomplish a task.
     
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  16. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Knowledge is fact based and is often confused with belief which may or may not be fact based.
    What changed over time was our collection of facts. The knowledge base (collection of facts) was once small enough to support the “flat earth” belief derived.
    By the third century BC the earth was pretty well known to be a spheroid.
    However people continued to believe the “flat earth” for many centuries by limiting the facts they used.

    Knowledge: the fact or state of knowing; the perception of fact or truth.

    Belief: an opinion or conviction confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof.

    In woodturning we have both Knowledge and Beliefs. It isn’t alway easy to tell them apart.
     
  17. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Kelly,
    Skill building and knowledge building I consider very different but related.

    “Stick time” is essential for skill building. That is the doing. Hopefully anyone getting in a pilot seat has a good bit of knowledge. They at least have to be taught what the “Stick” is.

    Knowing what to do is the knowledge. The wright brothers get a pass on getting in the cockpit without extensive prior knowledge. Most modern day pilots get in the seat with knowledge then try to execute what they know.


    The fundamental question you have is does learning ( turning skills, tool selection, lathe operation, design elements, safety procedures, ...) limit your creativity?
    Who knows.
    I would say It does not. It creates a place to explore from.
    Rather than limit it puts us closer to edge.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  18. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    Knowledge: the fact or state of knowing; the perception of fact or truth.

    As of late that is a lot like throwing a dart at a moving target.
     
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  19. stu senator

    stu senator

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    Then there is creativity, the ability to take knowledge and skill in a field and do something new (combine the two and take it to the next step).

    This includes bringing in knowledge and skill from unrelated topics and combining them with knowledge and skill in a field you are working in to make something completely new.

    Stu
     
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  20. William Rogers

    William Rogers

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    Knowledge. You need knowledge to know what to do. Experience is perfecting knowledge.
     
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