Why such a difference in price? Bionic face shield.

Discussion in 'Woodturning Health & Safety' started by odie, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. odie

    odie

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    You two are the Laurel and Hardy of the AAW forums! Heh,heh,heh........:D

    .....but, your input makes life here interesting!

    ooc
     
  2. odie

    odie

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    For those who have and use a bionic face shield: What if a chunk of wood flew into the front........would it push the shield into your face, or would the bottom reinforcement hitting your chest stop the shield short of your face? (John.....not sure your response was acknowledging that it did.....?)

    ooc
     
  3. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

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    From what Bill has posted it would seem that question would have a lot to do with the impact point and the trajectory angle of the chunk. If it were rising and hit above the center-line, the force would be channeled upwards to eyes and forehead. If the chunk had a downward flight path it would, indeed, push the frame into the clavicle area along with flexing/collapsing into the lower part of the face. Some very complicated force vectors underlying your question, Odie.

    I've been thinking about buying a 3M unit, but I'm not seeing where $600-800 buys me more impact protection that a $60 Bionic. Since most of my turning is done in an open garage with some hefty fans going (or a 1,600 CFM D-C running) and using domestic hardwoods rather than exotics, sanding etm. dust is not a concern for me.
     
  4. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

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    Didja here that, Olie? We's famous! ;)
     
  5. odie

    odie

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    Do either you or Bill own and use a bionic face shield, Mark.....?

    I guess a very simple test would be to press against the bionic face shield.....and see where it hits. I'm guessing it will either be your chest, or your face.

    I have the Airstream, but bought it prior to when 3M had the rights to it.....back then, it was Racal. You wouldn't necessarily buy one for face protection......but more for lung protection.

    I am considering buying a bionic face shield, but another question I need to know: Will a Resp-o-rator be compatible to it's use.....?

    ooc
     

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  6. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

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    I don't, but have seen them in use. Should be no issue with the filter and mouthpiece (which I do have). However, since we're talking about impact protection, I think I'd have second thoughts about more stuff behind the face plate to likely get jammed into my mouth if I got hit. The "scuba-doobie" is good if you're working with exotics and toxic woods, but people forget that the dust gets deposited all over them as well as in the shop atmosphere. To be effective you'd really need to "wear" it before you enter the shop and never take it out until you'd shed your shop clothes and decontaminated yourself. It's another reason I don't work with exotics; plenty of beautiful domestic woods to work with that I don't have to concern myself with anaphalactic shock.

    PS: Of course if we were in California, Jerry Brown would have all us turners in Moonsuits with outside supplied air. After all, we know that virtually everything causes cancer in California, right?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  7. Fred Belknap

    Fred Belknap

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    Odie I just went out to the shop and checked my Bionic Faceshield and it does hit the top of my sternum before it hits my face. I recently replaced the shield part of mine because the old one was pretty much scratched and had bunch of glue spots. My new shield took a hit right in the middle from a small knot or maybe bark and I noticed a few day later that it had a crack like when a pebble strikes a vehicle windshield. I said to myself when that hit the shield, "that would have hurt if it had hit my face". The anti-fog stuff doesn't work to good in this humid weather we have been having. I clean mine with Windex.
    Interesting thread.
     
  8. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    But ... but ... but ... I thought that we were the Three Stooges ... hey, we're a team, aren't we? Well, aren't we?

    I have been thinking about a Bionic faceshield, if I can conclude that it is any better than what I already have in my collection of faceshields. My current ones would all mash my nose flat as the first thing. The bottom edge hits right in the middle of my throat. The thing that I have observed on all of mine is that the headband doesn't have a firm grasp of my head -- not any more firm that something like a baseball cap which takes hardly any effort to cause it to come off. This tells me that with an impact of enough magnitude to cause injury that the headband would just pop loose as the shield impacted my face. The bionic shield seems to have a slight advantage if the bottom extends far enough to get some leverage from the sternum. The thing that I like about the Airstream is that the down position of the visor is a solid stop. That combined with the headband and cradle assembly having a really snug fit on the head would offer some degree of protection better than the average faceshield.

    Odie, if you have a friend who could give you a few b**** slaps in the faceshield to see if the headband will stay put, I think that it would provide a valuable contribution to our research. We are the Three Stooges after all, aren't we? Well, aren't we? I can't hear you.

    On a serious note, we need to also acknowledge that no manufacturer would want to have anything whatsoever to do with what we are discussing here for very obvious reasons. Their faceshields have been certified to meet specific requirements while the type of protection that we are discussing goes well beyond that. The AAW is probably also rethinking their implied endorsement of faceshields.
     
  9. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

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    Odie, Don't listen to him! He's trying to get you to offer your head as a target again!

    I would consider putting a bet on that.;)
     
  10. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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  11. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Wearing a face shield should be a basic requirement.

    Keep two things in mind
    1. A face shield will prevent a percentage of serious injuries. The actual percentage will vary with the type and condition of the face shield
    If every turner wears a face shield there will be fewer injuries requiring a hospital visit.

    2. You can still get serious and lethal injuries wearing a face shield.


    Few safety devices are 100% effective. Their use gives us an edge.
    For example, Seat belts save about 8 thousand lives a year and yet thousands die wearing seat belts.
    Seat belts reduce serious injury and death by about 50%
     
  12. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

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    That's an important caveat that must be made clear to everyone. Turning is a dangerous game, and the bit of plastic hanging off our foreheads, while better than nothing, will not protect us from serious injury in every situation. People should not surrender their safety to a few ounces of plastic. Promote them? Sure, but not without clear information about the seriously limited protection they actually give.
     
  13. odie

    odie

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    Thank you, Fred.......

    This is exactly the answer I was fishing for from someone who actually owns one of these bionic face shields. If the bottom of the visor hits your chest before it hits your face, I'd think that would be a significant safety advantage. Mark makes a good point about the Resp-o-rator, and that the shield may hit there, if I'm wearing it......could be hard on my teeth.

    Someone else in this thread mentioned that the anti-fog coating was good to have.....that may be so. I've had my own face shield fog up on cold mornings here in Montana. The problem goes away once the shop heats up to a comfortable temperature. I may just get the regular shield for now, and might upgrade if I feel I need the anti-fog. I'm also using Windex on my face shield, been doing it for years with no problems there. When the scratches get bad enough, I use the Novus plastic scratch remover.

    I still have the replacement riot shield coming....will try to mount to my current face shield. Don't know if it'll work out, but I had the idea that it could be mounted in conjunction with the supplied shield.......?

    Again, thanks.

    ooc
     
  14. JeffSmith

    JeffSmith

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    I just saw this thread - sorry for getting in late, but there's a couple of points...I've been using a Uvex for about four years now - it's great for me. It's light and visibility is great. I use it mostly while turning using the Trend Airshield only when sanding or doing dusty stuff. I've also got a bubble shield that seems really strong for impact, but is not all that comfortable to wear and fogs almost as soon as I put it on.

    The UVEX coating seems to last a long time. I turn a lot of green wood - maple and madrone mostly and the juices are particularly sticky. I clean with warm water and wipe dry. Seems to have no effect on the coating. The Anti-fog coating on the inside doesn't get anywhere near the cleaning the outside does.

    There is an adjustment on the headband - near the temple area that allows you to move the shield farther away from your face (slightly). Good for glasses wearers and possibly an additional level of room before anything hits your face(?).

    The newer shield is rated to the higher impact level. This is not mentioned in the literature, but you can dig it out with some research. There's a difference between the standard Z-87 standard and Z-87+. The Z-87+ rated shields are marked on the top right with a Z87+ - it's really small, but it's there. I replaced my shield with the new one about 2 years ago...

    All in all, there's probably much stronger shields available, but I find myself grabbing the Uvex in preference to anything else. Since I make a point of staying out of the line of fire whenever possible, and I stop to check the piece if anything starts to sing or act wonky,comfort trumps anything else for me.
     
  15. odie

    odie

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    Thank you Roger......

    I'm thinking that reinforcement under the shield is a great help to holding up under a hit like that.....beginning to think I'm going to get one of these bionic shields........;)

    Have a good day......er, night!

    ooc
     
  16. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Don't know about your resp-o-rator, But there is one at Lee Valley that will fit under Bionic. I have it and it is comfortable except I tend to look almost straight down w/o bending my neck due to gradient lens in glasses so I don't use it at the lathe.
    Anyway you can see it at this link
    http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=62066&cat=1,42207,43647
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2014
  17. Bill Weaver

    Bill Weaver

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    I bought mine maybe 1-1/2 ago and it is more like a welding helment, than any other face shield I have ever owned. I think I paid a little over 42$'s for it from Craft supplies.
    Ode, I do believe it would hit your chest before your face.
     
  18. stu senator

    stu senator

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    Using Uvix

    Just used my Uvex, BionicB-D87+, and did not need it but it was there.

    I was wearing a t shirt with a pocket and had a pocket full of chips but none down my neck.

    In testing I did a upslap to the shield and in hitting the top half of the shield the headband took the load across my forehead. If the slap was really in the up direction it lifted it off my head.

    If I hit the lower half it hit my sternum if my chin was down, or my chin if my head was up.

    As I was hitting myself I did not hit that hard, only enough to get a feel for what would happen.

    A few years ago it saved me from a nasty cut or bruise as a bowl I was reworking (stupid idea) came apart.

    I did not have any one throw blocks of wood at my head, I leave that to others who want to get noticed on U Tube.

    Stu
     
  19. odie

    odie

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    Well, well, well......what a pleasant surprise! :D

    The riot shield came today, and I figured I'd have to do some modifications to mount it to my regular face shield headband and swivel hardware. This is a U.S. military surplus riot face shield that is made to attach to a Kevlar military helmet. There were no modifications necessary. It simply attaches with several spring clips, which did require a screwdriver to spread them wide enough to fit the face shield.....but, is nice and secure. There is a rubber piece that makes a seal between the helmet and face shield....works equally as well for the same purpose on the face shield swivel mechanism. I have no idea what those two rubber circular pieces are for.....:confused: Wish all the modifications I attempt were this easy to do! :p

    The height is almost the same as the original face shield....about 1/2" less. The corners on the sides are cut with a bit more arc, but don't anticipate any drawbacks to that. It's noticeably heavier because the thickness of the plastic is much thicker, and the mounting hardware. I imagine this will absorb quite a strong hit without any trouble.

    Both the Resp-o-rator, and my modified fielder's face guard fit under the riot face shield very nicely.

    I think the bionic face shield would be a pretty good choice, and this riot face shield appears to be equally effective for personal safety. I had been considering buying the bionic, if this modified riot shield didn't work out.....but, it is much better and easier to install than I anticipated.

    Cost for the US military surplus riot face shield was a little less than $15, which included the shipping.

    ooc
     

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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
  20. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    It appears that they act as shock absorbers.
     

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