Why such a difference in price? Bionic face shield.

Discussion in 'Woodturning Health & Safety' started by odie, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. stu senator

    stu senator

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    Yes but it took a very hard knock to get awareness to now use it.

    Stu
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2014
  2. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

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    In my view, when it comes to equipment actually being used to protect us from serious injury, home-grown, cobbled-together experiments are not the direction we should be going. This is not the place to choose to save a few bucks. If riot gear rig (full, NOT parts) gets us as close as the state of the art presently allows, that's what we should be pushing here and on the AAW. How about seeing if the AAW can negotiate a member's discount with manufactures to bring the cost down a bit? That's a win-win for both members and the AAW and may even light a small fire under the manufacture(s) to up their product spec a bit more.
     
  3. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

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    You miss the point, Odie. By posting your "result" here and praising it, you are actually recommending it, and your "don't try this at home" disclaimer will be ineffective to any number of our guest readers. Blaming someone's injury on their own choices after they follow your implied endorsement is irresponsible. When it comes to personal protection equipment, I suggest that you confine your sharing to your opinion on some complete product being marketed rather than based on garage-engineering with repurposed parts. This is a very different area from talking about lathes or which chuck to buy or the shapes of gouges which are all fair game for opinions and anecdotal experiences.
     
  4. odie

    odie

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    My original post here has been removed.

    I changed my mind!.......:D

    ooc
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2014
  5. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Science and arithmetic trump opinion in all the developed countries except perhaps ours.

    Lynne Yamaguchi did an excellent article framing the science.
    See her article in the June journal and check out the aid to assess your own risk
    Here Is the web link again
    http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.woodtu...guchi.pdf?hhSearchTerms="Lynne+and+Yamaguchi"

    I find my favorite bionic shield does not do well for the larger pieces I turn.
    My Airmate seems more substantial and has a hard hat but I don't know its specs.

    I will be looking for a riot helmet and shield that meet the NIJ 0104.02 standard.
    Simple 111 joules is whole lot safer than 4 or 6 joules.

    Also Lynne points out that speed component adds to the energy of flying wood much more than weight does.
    We can all be safer just dialing down the speed.

    It isn't popular to believe in science but numbers don't have bias.
    Be safe and know how safe you are

    Al
     
  6. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I disagree. If it were simply a case of bickering then I would agree, but challenging and debating by stating other positions and ideas are essential components of advancing our understanding. It is basically what takes place in the scientific community where new ideas must withstand peer review.

    If you see any personal attacks or other rule violation it would be better to report it rather than calling it out in a post.
     
  7. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Odie,
    With the face shields and helmets, there are standards that show what forces the gear will withstand.
    There are formulas to determine the force of a projectile coming off the lathe at a specific speed.

    Recommendations on safety gear should not ignore the standards. Opinions on comfort, distortion of vision, cost, what standards are suitable for us .... Are fine

    Opinions that a yard sale helmet and shield will protect as well as helmets and shields meeting the NIJ 0104.02 standard do a dis-service to our members.

    I'm sure you don't want to put out Opinions that lead to people getting hurt.

    Al
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2014
  8. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Odie,
    Seems you did not read
    Lynne Yamaguchi's article or comprehend the information in the web post.

    Recommending unrated equipment is irresponsible.

    When you read Lynne's web post and conduct your own assessment, you may conclude that you turn mostly smaller pieces and have your risks covered with a bionic class face shield.
     
  9. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Odie,
    There are lots of newer turners on this site who come here to learn.

    So in effect all the active posters are teachers. In my experience the less experienced often have valuable ideas to share and can start wonderful threads.

    Readers have to individually assess the merits of various posters.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
  10. odie

    odie

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    Al......

    I did not recommend anything.....only communicated what I do, did and think. I am one who blazes my own trails when I feel the need/desire to deviate from conventional thought. Because of that, I do not rely on "herd think" for definitive resolutions to the directions I may take at any crossroads I may encounter.

    ooc
     
  11. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    So you haven't bothered to read the article or look at the web site?

    We have a teenage neighbor who is proud of his ignorance of math.
    He boasts about failing the math test. When I asked him if he used the available tutoring service, he told me no he knew all the math he would ever need.
    I concluded that he knows all the math he ever will.

    Why put so many limits on yourself?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  12. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

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    For some, Al, the old cliches will always apply . . "Ignorance is Bliss" . . "My mind's made up. Don't confuse me with the facts."

    The hardest thing for a teacher to do is to motivate their students to learn what they have to give.

    It would likely shock your neighbor-kid if he discovered that valuing his ignorance is the result of his instinctive use of algebra which is how we all think. Whether we realize it or not, our conscious and unconscious choices throughout the day are the result of setting up and solving algebraic equations both simple and complex. Algebra class just shows us how to put them on paper. Syllogistic reasoning is, above all, pure algebra.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  13. Sergio Villa

    Sergio Villa

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    If I should deduct my conclusions from what I red in this thread I will reach conclusions very different from those I will get from the many observations I read in this thread and in other discussions and experiences I had.
    It looks to me that there are here only a couple or few people who believe they have the Truth in their pockets and their pockets do not look too deep either.
    Ad majora.
     
  14. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Sergio,
    Face shields, and riot helmets are produced to standards.
    Those standards are facts.
    A block of wood of a given weight moving at a given speed will a specified kinetic energy that is a fact.

    These facts are not something we can debate. We can choose how to use these facts. We can even debate how to use these facts.
    We cannot change the facts or invent our own facts.
     
  15. Sergio Villa

    Sergio Villa

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    I do not dispute the facts. I just notice a certain tone of superiority in certain posts which is out of place in my opinion and this does not help any discussion.
    Discussion is one thing and confrontation that often reaches arrogance is another. It does not matter where the truth is or it is presumed to be.
    This is the basis of any constructive discussion.
     
  16. Gary Barone

    Gary Barone

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    Well I have been watching this aaw forum A year as a member and the problem I think is if we all where sitting in the same we would all have the same goal but here its just words on a page easy to misunderstand intent. when I posted my face shield accident I did not tell the complete story I did not look for guidance and I know face shields can't take the impact from the wood lathe. so I had the bowl in the finishing jaws I was standing in front of it when it came out and went up my arm hit me under the face shield so my opinion is the riot helmet is not full prof. The wood lathe is what it is be aware you will be hit because nobody is perfect
     
  17. Steve Worcester

    Steve Worcester Admin Emeritus

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    Please stay on topic here and try to be adults.

    Keep on topic, keep civil, and no baiting.

    Since I have to be the parent here, I will tell you be nice, or go away.

    If I cant force nice, I can force expulsion
     

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