Wine proof finish

Discussion in 'Tutorials and Tips' started by Doug Nesbitt, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. Doug Nesbitt

    Doug Nesbitt

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    I'm making some communion cups for my church, and would like to know if anyone know's of a wine proof finish that I should use ?

    Doug Nesbitt, Santa Rosa, CA
     
  2. Mike Marek

    Mike Marek

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    Wine Safe Finish

    Doug

    Try Mike Mahoney and ask him about his food safe finish made with California Walnut Oil.

    Mike Mahoney Bowlmaker
     
  3. john lucas

    john lucas

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    Doug sorry your not getting many answer yet. I don't have any real experience. The problem is film finishes that would be waterproof , like epoxy, will eventually break down due to wood movement. At least that's in theory. I've tried a lot of things for outdoor finishes and none of them last.
    However a goblet being small with little wood movement, and stored indoors might go many many years with an epoxy finish and not fail. It is food safe in that even if it chipped off and you ingest it, it's just plastic and will go right through you. OK that wasn't pleasant but I think you get the point.
    I've only made ceremonial type goblets for weddings and such and have used walnut oil. I let it cure as long as possible before use. I can't tell that it imparts a taste but then my pallet is about as dull as it gets. I have only seen one pair of goblets that were about 10 years old. My friends have not used them since the wedding day and of course the finish is good because it was only used and washed once.
    Hope this helps a little and maybe gets this thread rolling with more knowledgeable people.
     
  4. gary rock

    gary rock

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    Doug

    I have turned a chalice for communion in which wine is used. Used Sweet Gum (straight grain), turned, sanded then started the finishing process. Mixed 50/50 polyurethane with minerial spirits, applied 10 coats- letting it dry between each coat. Then moved to 75/25 polyurethane and minerial spirts- 5 coats. Then applied the last 3 coats full strength, steel wooling between coats, the whole piece. I instructed the altar guild, not to immerse the chalice in soapy water, but to wash it with a soapy wash rag then rinse and dry immediately and put up.

    You can also use the bar top epoxy but you must have a lathe or some other device that will rotate at 1 to 2 RPM ( that your chuck would fit on to hold the piece) for 24 to 36 hours for the epoxy to cure.

    Some info to think on.

    Gary:cool2:
     
  5. Jim Rinde

    Jim Rinde

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    The best finish for wooden wine glasses is an epoxy resin. Epoxy resins are cross linked systems and have the best solvent resistance of any readily available coating. Lacquers are not good because they are alcohol base coatings. Drying oils are also not the best as they do not cure as tightly as epoxies. I wrote an article on this and it appeared in
    Woodturning. You can see it at:

    http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/page.asp?p=1568

    It should be helpful.
     
  6. n7bsn

    n7bsn

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    I would agree with Jim, I use Enviro-Tex Lite on all "drinking" vessels
     
  7. Syd Sellers

    Syd Sellers

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    Enviro-Tex Lite 2008

    Hi, I have been doing a bit of digging and I found that my hardware store carries this product but I need your input as to 1) do you cut this with Acetone?
    2) If so what ratio?
    3) Have you ever tried the vacuum dry method with this product?
    4) If you cut it, what is done to the drying/setting time?

    The reason I ask, I am in the middle of making a number of laminated wine goblets and I am using Box Elder sap wood. It is very light in color and I really don't want the Red Wine to stain it. I have also run into a problem with most wood sealing oils and finishes, they all tend to darken the light wood.
     
  8. Jim Rinde

    Jim Rinde

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    Syd: The Envirotex lite epoxy system is very low in viscosity and probably dose not need to be diluted. However if you want a lower viscosity try about 5 %. I have not used this epoxy system, but looked up the product data sheet and MSDS on line. It is a fairly fast curing system so you would have to vacuum it rapidly. With regards to how acetone effects cure time ; it will slow it down, but since this is fast curing I don't know if you could tell.
    With regards to using it for wine glasses, I would not use this product for that application. The reason is the curing agent contains 55 % nonyl phenol which when mixed 1/1 means the cured resin will contain 27.5 % Nonyl phenol. This is a large amount and some could leach out into the wine. For applications not requiring food or drink it should work fine.
     
  9. Syd Sellers

    Syd Sellers

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    Envior-Tex Lite

    To further our conversation about this product, I called the tech support People at Enviro-Tec. Their comment after I told them what I wanted to do with the product was a resounding NO. Do not use this product on a food container of any type.

    So that ends it for me.
    What is my next choice?
     
  10. Jim Rinde

    Jim Rinde

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    Syd: The epoxy resin I use is a very slow curing resin system consisting of Rhino Linings epoxy resin 1403 cured with their curing agent 403. The mix ratio I use is 100 grams resin to 43 grams curing agent or 2/1 by volume. After it cures hard at RT I give it a post cure at 125F for several hours to complete the cure. It is available from Rhino Linings: 9151 Rehco Rd, San Diego, Ca 92121. Ph. 858-576-9900 ext 6093; rhinolinings.com.
     
  11. Syd Sellers

    Syd Sellers

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    Good Safe coatings.

    I have contacted Rhino re their products, so far no response.

    But here is what I have turned up, at least it is used in the food industry.

    http://www.masterbond.com/ EP30HT is the product I think will do what we are looking for.

    Check this out, I have no idea of cost at this point, but it fills our needs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  12. Jim Rinde

    Jim Rinde

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    Syd: The Masterbond product looks good, however, probably expensive. Have you checked out the specifications and MSDS? The extension number I gave at Rhino linings is the sale/order desk and is where you should start.
     
  13. Syd Sellers

    Syd Sellers

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    Masterbond Food Safe Epoxy

    Hi Jim,
    I haven't gotten in touch with Rhino yet, it is a supper Long distance call for me.

    However, the Masterbond company has done their home work, they have a number of products that are FDA approved for the food industry.

    Our Most Popular Food Safe Epoxy Adhesives
    EP42HT-2FGTwo part, food grade epoxy that complies with FDA CFR 175.300 specification. Offers outstanding chemical resistance and a wide service temperature range of -60°F to +450°F.

    EP30HTHigh temperature resistant, room temperature curing epoxy system. Exceptional bond strength and dimensional stability. Optically clear. Meets FDA Chapter 1, Section 175.105 requirements.

    EP30HVHigh performance epoxy adhesive/sealant/coating. Superior physical strength properties. Bonds well to both similar and dissimilar substrates. Conforms to FDA Chapter 1, Section 175.105 specification. Solvent free system. Optically clear.


    As you can see, it shows promise.

    Our Headquarters
    Office Address:
    154 Hobart Street
    Hackensack, NJ 07601 USA
    Contact Numbers:
    Phone: +1-201-343-8983
    Fax: +1-201-343-2132
    Office Hours:
    Monday- Friday
    8:30 AM - 5:00 PM EST


    I hope we have a woodturner in NJ that would like to do some leg work for us????
     
  14. Jake Gevorgian

    Jake Gevorgian

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    I'm very stupid about alcohol proof finishes---lately I use the O.J. Shine Juice, pretty good stuff that is one part shellac, one part boiled linseed oil and one part brandy, err, denatured alcohol. So, that will not work as an alcohol proof finish.

    If it was me, I'd just burnish the wood and not finish it with any kind of finishing application...or maybe apply some bees wax. In my opinion it'd make more sense, since it's for a church, and our lord would definitely choose a cup that isn't too fancy.

    Sorry couldn't help and answer to your question.

    Blessings,
    Jake
     
  15. Syd Sellers

    Syd Sellers

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    Not interested.

    Hi Jim, you were right, the response from them was one of NOT INTERESTED. Also an over tone of "You can't afford it"

    So, they did suggest a few manufactures that might be able to help.


    Royal Adhesives, Epic Resins, Magnolia or Cotronics may be able to better assist you.

    I have requested more info from the first 2

    Lets hope, but from what I saw on their web sites, they have pretty fancy products, but most are black in color.

    We maybe back to Walnut oil....
     
  16. dkulze

    dkulze

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    Here's another vote for doing a simple eurythane finish and then beeswax up the inside nicely. Recoat regularly and should do just fine for a communion cup. Use laquer if you're concerned about the eurythane and, once again, keep the inside waxed. That should prevent bleed through under all but the most egregious of conditions (such as leaving it full for a week between services).

    d
     
  17. n7bsn

    n7bsn

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    em, you do know that beeswax is soluble in alcohol, right?

    Not that beeswax is remotely "un-safe"
     
  18. Syd Sellers

    Syd Sellers

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    Has anyone tried this?

    Circa 1850 Woodturner's Jelly is a gelled modified polyurethane varnish. It creates a rich patina and provides a true hand-rubbed finish that protects against heat, water and alcohol. Circa 1850 Woodturner's Jelly dries quickly - free from dust specks and brush marks. It is ideal for any woodturning projects and all wood furniture.


    This may be the answer to our needs here.
     
  19. Jim Rinde

    Jim Rinde

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    Syd: I placed an order for some more of the Rhino Lining epoxy today. They have an 800 number so you don't have to worry about long distance charges. The number I used was 1-800-747-6966 extension # 7. This gets you to the epoxy division. Ask for the epoxy 1403 and the hardener H403. You need to order 2 units of 1403 to 1 unit of H403. In my case I ordered 2 gallons of 1403 and one gallon of H403. Their minimum order is one pint.
     
  20. Jake Gevorgian

    Jake Gevorgian

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    As an expert sufferer from Food and Drug Administrations (FDA) mistakes, I don't trust FDA's officers and their approval of drugs. My advise is to do more research on the actual components of this particular epoxy EP42HT-2FG and see if there are any elements that may cause kidney failure.
     

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