Wood dust

Discussion in 'Woodturning Health & Safety' started by FRED VON AMERONGEN, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. FRED VON AMERONGEN

    FRED VON AMERONGEN

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    I have never used a dust collection system before.
    Now i have developed mold in my lungs from sanding some moldy wood.
    The doctor says…..â€do whatever you need to do to stop inhaling wood dust!!â€
    i could use some help please, i have no idea what i should buy.
    I did a little research but it is confusing to me.
    Cyclone system or not a cyclone system, how many horse power should the system be, how many microns should the system filter out, etc. Etc.
    Since i live in the country i would be able to put a hole in my shop wall and vent dust to the outside. I need to collect dust from 2 lathes, one table saw and one band saw.
    Obviously i would like to buy as inexpensive system as i can that would get the job done correctly.
    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
    Fred
     
  2. James Seyfried

    James Seyfried

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    Use PPE

    I have dust collecting system and an air cleaner, but when I sand I still use a dust mask or Trend air shield.
     
  3. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree with James. A DC and air cleaner help to keep your shop clean and improve the air quality a bit, but in order to comply with the doctor's orders you will need personal breathing protection. You can use a N100 dust mask or a powered system with a HEPA filter. Don't bother with the cheap paper masks as they only filter out the big stuff. You need something that will filter air down to the sub-micron particle size. This isn't any time to be cheap if you want to continue woodworking.

    I use a 3M Airstream AS400 PAPR unit that I bought from Airware America. It costs around $1000, but it is the Cadillac of breathing protection. I use it because I would not be able to turn wood otherwise.
     
  4. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    Well, this You Tube clip will help explain a bit:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lvwCKfL7Uo

    There are numerous options, and you do want the best you can afford. Collecting at the source is most important, and having the air scrubbers are great for what you miss. If you don't have a dust collection and filtering set up, your lungs do that.

    You don't say where in Oregon you are. I am in Eugene, and you are welcome to stop by and see what I have. There are clubs on the coast, in Portland, Salem, Roseburg, Grants Pass, and Coos Bay. They are great sources of info, and fellow wood junkies.

    There will also be the Oregon Woodturning Symposium in Albany in March. Demos are interesting and there will be vendors.

    robo hippy
     
  5. Richard Coers

    Richard Coers

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    The very best dust prevention is at the source. Use a properly designed system with upgraded bags or pleated filters. Since woodturners don't move as much as a furniture maker, I would suggest an air supplied dust mask.
     
  6. Steve Doerr

    Steve Doerr

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    Fred, sorry to hear about your lung problem, but hopefully the various filter systems that are out there will be able to keep you health and turning. Like the others have said, you really need a combination of systems to really effectively get rid of all of the dust. The air scrubber is important because it helps all of those very fine dust particles that are floating in the air that don't get caught by you main dust collection system. I would also recommend the Trend Pro Air Shield. It is the "last line of defense" that makes sure the air you breath is clean. But, once you take it off you still have a lot of dust in the air. I currently have a two hp single stage system with a pleated filter that has a trash can adapter that makes it a "two stage" system. I also have two lathes (sometimes operating at the same time when my wife is turning), table saw, planner, joiner, band saw & drill press. Since my shop is in our basement, it's really important, to help keep the wife happy, that I collect as much of the dust as I can. Thus, this system just isn't cutting the mustard. I knew I need a good cyclone system, so I have ordered a V-3000 from Onidea. The reason I mention this is that I called them and they were very helpful in picking the size and type of machine I needed based on shop size, tools, etc. HTH and good luck.
    Steve
     
  7. Brent@TurnRobust

    Brent@TurnRobust

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    Everybody has this right for you, you need both shop equipment and personal protection equipment.

    Since you live in the country, you can vent outside and save on bags and filters, but in the winter when your shop is heated you are also sucking out all the warm air.

    Agree 100% with Mr. Boehme on the 3M HEPA Airstream System. The Trend is very good too, but the 3M unit is the Cadillac. We have one here in the shop we use when we grind castings. Cast iron has graphite in and it gets all over when you machine it or grind it. Between the 5HP dust collection system with downdraft table and the 3M unit I feel the guy doing the grinding is very well protected.

    The 3M unit is also less tiring to wear, as the battery is worn on the belt, not the head like in the Trend. Again, Trend is a good unit, but the 3M is REALLY GOOD.

    Good luck with your dust collection system, and like somebody else said, this is no time to go on the cheap.

    Brent at Robust
     
  8. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Dust on a budget

    It all depends on your budget. Onieda will do it all and you pay the price. You can get by for much less. Buy a dust collector at least 1.5 HP or larger if you have longer runs.
    After that it depends on the space you have available. Portable machine to go to each WW machine. Fixed or cyclone if you have the space. Cyclone will stop the larger chips from getting as far as the filter and reduce problems there. Not an issue if you duct out of the shop.
    Duct work should have a large main duct (ideal not required) with smaller (4 inch) branching off to each machine. Ducts can be metal $$$ or plastic $. Thin wall PVS will work and now there connectors available to put this together. I do not ground my pipes any more and there has never been an explosion in a home shop as far as I know. Remember the straighter the line the better and curves should all be gradual(no 90 degree).
    Each machine produces different amounts of ambient dust. Planner and wide belt sander are the biggest producers. Lathe and CMS are most difficult to collect from.There are all types of ideas on hoods for machines and blast gates. Each machine branch will need a blast gate to open or cut off air flow to it.
    There is a book called "Dust Collection Basics" to give you some good basic info.
    This is only the beginning and the other info you have been given on personal gear also will help. A secondary option not mentioned is a aircleaner. These hang from the ceiling and should be running the whole time you are in the shop to clean the air.
     
  9. Kevin Wood

    Kevin Wood

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    Bill Pentz has a good website going into much detail due to the health issues with dust that he had. Lot's of good information on the site. One thing I know he recommends it trying to go to 6" pipe straight to your machines. For many machines it may require re-doing the existing 4" port on your machines. Many things he recommends will depend on the horsepower of your dust collector. If you have like a 1.5 horse DC and use flex hose like many, he recommends getting smooth wall 6" hose which his site references where it can be found. I believe for like a 1.5 horse DC, he recommends keeping the run less than 10 ft in length. He also has instructions on creating your own vent hood to connect the 6" flex hose. I am in the process of changing from 4" flex hose you get from most stores to the 6" smooth wall flex hose which I purchased a couple months ago.
     
  10. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Gerald, my take on what Fred is asking has to do with a serious health issue and not how to build a shop dust collection system. While that is of secondary importance, when the doctor told him, â€do whatever you need to do to stop inhaling wood dust!!â€, this is no longer about putting together a dust collection system on the cheap. In my opinion, the whole discussion about a dust collection system is way off the mark as far as being the primary method of dealing with the problem of inhaling wood dust. When working on the lathe only a portion of the dust generated is captured by the DC system. The remainder hangs around in the air until it gets filtered out by the person's lungs or by an air cleaner. BTW, the first three or four replies all mentioned an air cleaning systems. They are good in reducing the thin layer of dust that eventually settles on everything in the shop, but are useless as far as doing anything while you are standing at the lathe and turning dry wood that is producing lots of dust. Several people have already mentioned the only solution that is effective in addressing his medical issue and that is some sort of personal breathing protection -- the two best options being the Trend Pro and the 3M Airstream.
     
  11. odie

    odie

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    I haven't been using my 3M Airstream helmet very much in the past few years. It works well, but since I'm only doing a tenth of the sanding I used to do, dust isn't the problem it once was.

    The Airstream isn't completely neglected, but I've been using a very convenient alternative.....the Resp-o-rator. This is a very light, effective alternative to powered units......fast to put into use, very effective, easy to maintain, inexpensive.

    http://www.duxterity.com/

    I no longer use the nose clip, because I've learned to breathe through my mouth subconsciously.

    ko
     
  12. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Bill, I am of the belief that the shop is not ONLY about the time we spend on the lathe. We must also protect ourselves at other workstations and slow the ambient dust. That is what I was referring to. Not Every One can afford Onieda to do the system and my purpose was to show both options as he did not specify financial criteria and being a health professional I would rather he have something than Nothing. A complete solution would be not to work in the shop. I think the point was to give as many options as possible.
    For the post on flex hose , most experts recommend limiting the runs of flex to as little as possible because it reduces airflow volume due to turbulence the ribs create. Smooth wall is the best way to go.
    Ya'll Have fun . I will Have my funn later today as we have Cindy Drozda doing a demo at the club today.
     
  13. Terry Vaughan

    Terry Vaughan

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    If you are at the point where the risk of inhaling any dust at all is too great, then you need to cut your coat according to the cloth you can afford. Any form of wearable breathing protection can only be effective while you wear it and a turning workshop can be a dusty place still when you take the mask off. You would have to wear it full time, and even then the dust gets in your clothes.

    It's better in principle to extract the dust at source. The limiting factor is air flow at the point of dust formation, as the dust has to be carried away immediately. Go for the extractor that moves the most air. For any given extractor, the size of the work you can do is limited. If the extractor is small, so must the workpiece be, because it's not really practicable to move the inlet continually.

    You can minimise the formation of dust. Sand wet if possible. Run the lathe slowly so dust is not dispersed. Don't power sand. Use sharp tools. Avoid using dusty wood, dry and spalted for example. Turn, or at least do your sanding, outdoors in a breeze if possible. Vacuum chips instead of sweeping.

    Any filter will let some dust pass, so you have either to take advice you trust and select a filter you are comfortable with or duct the air outside.

    The only way to avoid breathing dust completely is to turn small items in the extractor airflow, at a point where the flow can overcome air movements that would disperse the dust, and send the air outdoors. That still leaves dust from other sources though. Avoiding dust in a workshop is like swimming without getting wet.
     
  14. Ron Rutter

    Ron Rutter

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    Fred. A bandsaw is one of the worst dust makers to me so if you have one deal with that as well. The minimum you should do is vent outside & wear a respirator AT ALL TIMES. To save heat you can introduce make-up air at the lathe. Ron.
     
  15. Steve Worcester

    Steve Worcester Admin Emeritus

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    In this case, I don't think so. I run an Onieda and a Jet 1100 CFM while sanding and still end up inhaling a lot of dust. The proof is in the kleenex in this case.

    The Onieda when coupled with a hose of appropriate size (as big as you can get to the lathe) will get a large percentage, the only way to make sure you are getting clean air, is a mask with a filter and positive air pressure. Trend, 3M or a paint booth quality hood that pulls air from another room are the way to round it all out.
     

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