"Your Time To Turn" - A Woodturning Symposium for the Visually or Physically Disabled

[Steve Russell]

I'm proud to announce that I’m planning a new hands-on woodturning symposium for visually and physically disabled individuals in 2010. The symposium is tentatively planned for late 2010 (October or November) and will be held in The Woodlands, Texas area, just north of Houston, Texas.

Through the years, I have received numerous emails from individuals who are blind and want to learn more about woodturning. Few educational centers will allow them to join a woodturning class because they are blind. Some of these individuals have built their own outdoor decks, build beautiful furniture, frame their own houses, rebuild cars, complete their own plumbing repairs, run tablesaws and bandsaws in their woodshops and are accomplished woodturners now, yet they are sometimes prevented from learning how to turn, or learning more about woodturning because of a limited perception of what a blind person can do.

"Your Time To Turn" will be the first woodturning symposium of its kind that will be specifically designed for the blind, as well as those with physical impairments such as an inability to stand for long periods, those who have a lost an arm or hand, or lost one or both of their legs. Instead of a traditional woodturning symposium where you watch a demonstrator, Your Time To Turn will be a hands-on symposium, where qualified instructors will be present to help guide attendees through the skill building exercises.

Woodturning should be accessible to anyone who has a desire to learn! The necessary skills can be adapted to accommodate many different types of disabilities including paraplegics (witness Oneway’s new 1236SD Sit Down Lathe that features a pivoting bedway, so you can use it whilst seated in a chair, or a wheel chair), those who are without a limb or for those who are blind, as well as many other types of disabilities.

You Can Help: If you know of a blind woodturner, or another woodturner with physical disabilities who is a woodturner, please email me, or visit our club website at http://www.lonestarwoodturners.com for more information. I would also like to start a list of individuals who might be interested in attending (with or without any woodturning experience), or those who would like to volunteer as an instructor, video camera/digital camera operator, or as a demonstrator’s assistant at the symposium.

If you have coordinated, or helped to coordinate a woodturning symposium, or a hands-on teaching symposium before, I would appreciate any assistance you can offer. If you know of any companies who might want to help support this unique learning experience for the disabled with financial donations, or with donations of tools or equipment, please contact me at steverussell2436@comcast.net

The Lone Star Woodturners Association, Inc., (LSWA) is a Texas non-profit educational corporation. Our 1023 application for 501(c)3 tax exempt status is pending with the IRS and should be received in the next few months, well before the start of the symposium in late 2010. Once this tax exemption is received, donations to the LSWA can be earmarked for this symposium and will be tax deductible to the donor, according to applicable IRS guidelines.

Thanks for helping me to assist people with visual and physical disabilities to achieve their goal of learning the art and craft of woodturning. If you have any comments or suggestions on how we might structure this symposium to insure that the attendees receive the best learning experience possible, please let me know. Additional details will be available on our club website as soon as details, dates and demonstrator/instructors are finalized.

Steve Russell
LSWA, Inc. President

 

[george morris]

great Idea!

Steve great idea. i had a little scare last year when I needed a new hip. While rehabbing I bought a adjustable stool so I could turn small turnings and not stress the hip to much. I am 100% now but I could see a real need for what you are doing.
Good luck wish I was closer to help. Love your web site! G

 

[Jerry Hall]

Wheel Chair Setup

Steven,

Here is a link to a simple sitdown jet mini setup that worked very well at our county fair for wheelchair bound turners, and people who needed to sit while turning. I actually liked it myself. The key was the tilting bench resting between two workmates, and a pivot so the lathe could be turned easily for lefties or regulars.
http://picasaweb.google.com/Goldturners/NevadaCountyFair2009#
Let me know if you want more details. The trick was getting people to try it, but once they did there was a great big smile! An armless, wheeled, adjustable height artists chair was perfect for those not in a wheel chair.

Good luck.

 

[Steve Russell]

Thanks George!

Hello George,

Thanks for your kind words about my website. I'm glad you were able to modify your turning environment when you had your hip problems. I think Oneway's new pivoting lathe will appeal to many woodturners who have difficulty standing for long periods, or for those who are in a wheelchair, or need to sit when turning. It's something many of us will consider as we get older. Thankfully, there are some options available so we can continue doing what we love!

Take care and best wishes to you and yours this holiday season.

Steve Russell
President
Lone Star Woodturners
"Your Time To Turn" Symposium Coordinator
A Woodturning Symposium for the Visually or Physically Disabled
http://www.lonestarwoodturners.com/your-time-to-turn.html

 

[Steve Russell]

Great idea Jerhall!

Hello Jerhall,

Thanks for the link to your mini-lathe pivoting setup. This looks like a great option for adapting an existing lathe to work with a chair or wheelchair. Thanks again!

Steve Russell
President
Lone Star Woodturners
"Your Time To Turn" Symposium Coordinator
A Woodturning Symposium for the Visually or Physically Disabled
http://www.lonestarwoodturners.com/your-time-to-turn.html

 

[Dan Henry]

Steve Take a look at the Hunt County Woouturners web sit, we have the plans for a sit down lathe that the club build to help a member that had health problems and could not stand. It accommodates mini lathe like a Jet.

Go to www.huntcountwoodturnes.org and click on club projects.

Building the stand is a straight forward wood working project, the only difficult part is making the tool rest bracket.

Contact me if any one has any questions.

Dan Henry

 

[Steve Russell]

Wow! Thanks Dan!

Hello Dan,

Thanks so much for the link to your club's sit down lathe stand. This is just the kind of information I need and it will help quite a bit! Woodturners are some of the smartest people I have ever met. Congratulations to all of your members who worked on this project. Bravo and well done!

Steve Russell
President
Lone Star Woodturners
"Your Time To Turn" Symposium Coordinator
A Woodturning Symposium for the Visually or Physically Disabled
http://www.lonestarwoodturners.com/y...e-to-turn.html

 

[odie]

I saw this thread the other day, and almost responded......

What doesn't make sense to me is why a blind person would want to turn.....I can't visualize how this could be done without serious concerns for personal safety.

DO NOT GET ME WRONG ON THIS: I'm one who wouldn't think of not allowing a blind person to turn......if that's what he/she truly wanted to do.......but, it just seems like safety is directly related to being able to see what you are doing.

I expect there will be a rush of those who will immediately defend the safety aspects of turning blind.......these handicapped persons are truly amazing in what they can do with a little motivation and belief in one's self. They deserve all the compassion and understanding we can give......but, turning seems like something they shouldn't be doing.

OK......explain it to me......why is safety NOT an insurmountable issue for lathe turning by someone who can't see? I'd be willing to bet the farm that there isn't a single turner here who hasn't had a catch......and if there is, they are lying! If it happens to virtually all of us, what makes anyone think it won't be a serious potential threat to the well being of a blind person?

Now that I've said that, let me remind the reader that I wouldn't think of standing in the way of a blind person who wanted to turn wood on a lathe......all I'm pointing out is it just doesnt seem like this is the right thing to encourage them to do.

I'm sure a blind person could fly an airplane, and be a better pilot than many of those who can see.......but, when all the electronics fail.....and one must fly "by the seat of their pants".......it's not something I would feel comfortable having them do........lathe turning, and flying by the seat of your pants......are things that are related.....they are things that require more than training to do well......there is a connection to one's body and soul that makes the great ones do what they can do. The great turners and best-of-the-best pilots rely on much more than knowledge......and being able to see is among those things they need to possess......

I am fully prepared to admit I'm wrong about this......but, political correctness will not be my reasoning for doing so.

ooc

 

[Dave Peebles]

Hi Steve,

I don't know if you have been in touch with Dennis DeVendra, but he is a very good woodturner from The Columbus Ohio area. He also happens to be blind.

http://blindwoodturner.com/index.html

Best wishes,

Dave

 

[odie]

Hi Steve,

I don't know if you have been in touch with Dennis DeVendra, but he is a very good woodturner from The Columbus Ohio area. He also happens to be blind.

http://blindwoodturner.com/index.html

Best wishes,

Dave

Thanks for the link, Dave........

Follow-up.......

I have been to Dennis DeVendra's web site, and I must admit that I am very much impressed! I have nothing but admiration for his determination to learn woodturning. As most of us have, I've heard how the handicapped learn to hone their other senses to compensate for their loss of other(s). A heightened sense of feel and hearing plays a role in DeVendra's success.....and, he deserves respect for overcoming loss of sight to produce turnings on a lathe.

However, I am not able to say this has convinced me that woodturning is a reasonable, or safe quest for someone who does not see. If he does have an accident, I will not be the one to say "I told you so", but is there anyone here that truly believes this man's safety isn't, at the very least, jeopardized by his lack of sight? The very nature of the lathe means that operator mistakes could, and do cause grave bodily harm, up to and including lethal consequences.......

Now......if we are talking about someone who must sit, an amputee, loss of sight in one eye, hearing, or any one of a number of other physical limitations.......I'd have to give my full support to that person in his (her) desire to learn woodturning. Without considering mental capacity, sight, along with severe loss of motor skills, are about the only things I can think of that would prevent me from recommending lathe use by the handicapped.

Once again, I will not allow political correctness to enter this equation. Either it is safe, or it is not......and "feel good" emotions should not be a part of proper decision making.

ooc

 

[Steve Russell]

Thanks Dave!

Hello Dave,

Thanks for the information and the link to Dennis DeVendra's website. I will be sure to contact him about our woodturning symposium for the blind and physically disabled... I looked around his website and caught his two UTube videos as well, :cool2: they were very inspiring!

Steve Russell
President
Lone Star Woodturners, Inc
"Your Time To Turn" Symposium Coordinator
A Woodturning Symposium for the Visually or Physically Disabled
http://www.lonestarwoodturners.com/y...e-to-turn.html

 

[Robert Manning]

Dennis DeVendra

I had seen Dennis' site a while ago. It seems to me that not having to use vision allows him to position himself outside of the line of fire. Touch has the final word on my own work as to whether the piece is smooth and of fair line. I wish my lathe was quieter so I could use that sense to full advantage. General lathes must be quiet.

I like the man because he seems unstoppable.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Hope we get some direct feedback

from people with serious vision problems who have turned. When I set up the program for wheelchair turners (see my earlier post) I borrowed a wheelchair to test out my setup from a local service center for the disabled. The director, who is nearly blind, asked me if he could participate and learn to be a turner. I quickly expressed much the same feelings as Odie. Now reading this I am having second thoughts and remembering the disappointment on the man's face.

Another friend who is wheel chair bound sometimes and is losing his vision due to kidney disease gave it a try, but couldn't see detail that resulted from his learning proper tool control, so I discouraged him too. Another disappointment. And it may have just been the teacher! Never occurred to me for a turner to use their hands for their eyes. Which is dumb, because I do it all the time in my woodworking and turning now that I think about it.

I am not convinced tho, and sure would like some feedback on how this can be done, and how to teach it to a new turner. Maybe I will put a scarf over my eyes and give it a try. Wish me luck. I will count my fingers first. Then maybe I will talk to my friends again with some new thinking.

 

[odie]

from people with serious vision problems who have turned. When I set up the program for wheelchair turners (see my earlier post) I borrowed a wheelchair to test out my setup from a local service center for the disabled. The director, who is nearly blind, asked me if he could participate and learn to be a turner. I quickly expressed much the same feelings as Odie. Now reading this I am having second thoughts and remembering the disappointment on the man's face.

Another friend who is wheel chair bound sometimes and is losing his vision due to kidney disease gave it a try, but couldn't see detail that resulted from his learning proper tool control, so I discouraged him too. Another disappointment. And it may have just been the teacher! Never occurred to me for a turner to use their hands for their eyes. Which is dumb, because I do it all the time in my woodworking and turning now that I think about it.

I am not convinced tho, and sure would like some feedback on how this can be done, and how to teach it to a new turner. Maybe I will put a scarf over my eyes and give it a try. Wish me luck. I will count my fingers first. Then maybe I will talk to my friends again with some new thinking.

Hi jerhall......

If you'll check my first post in this thread (#8), I think you'll find I stated I wouldn't think of standing in the way of a blind person's desire to turn.

However, I should backpedal a little here, and make a specific circumstantial point. If I were the instructor, and I were responsible for the safety of that blind person.......well, in all honesty, I'd have to disappoint him by denying entry into my class. To my way of thinking, this is just a common sense point. I believe there will be howls of disappointment from some who are reading this, but I've come to understand the powerful emotional appeal of politically correct thinking. Sometimes, PC means you disregard the logical and choose the illogical......strictly because of that strong emotional draw.

Since I have no intentions of ever being a woodturning instructor, it's strictly a theoretical point.

Now I have a question for you.......If you knew you would be legally liable for your decision to teach a blind person to turn......would you do it?

If you hesitated in the slightest to answer that, you must ask yourself if you feel there is a certain real risk to turning blind......or not. Just because a person desires, does not mean it's in their best interest. Also, just because one blind person has beaten the odds, doesn't for a moment mean that we can now give our blessings to all blind persons with a little desire......this is foolish to think this way.

As before, I would not be the one to prevent a blind person to turn......except within the confines of that theoretically impossible circumstance that I, myself, would be held responsible if serious injury were to be the result.

ooc

 

[Jerry Hall]

Hey Odie,

We are on the same page, and I know you wouldn't "stand in the way" of a blind persons or any other's desire to turn. Like me you, would just stand well off to one side:cool2:

I appreciated your remarks, and also the web page of an apparently successful turner who has no vision. So I just got to thinking, back and forth. The experience I had with the joy of wheel chair turners, and my rejection of blind turners was a powerful reflection.

Re any hesitation. I hesitate about lots of things, I do my homework, if I decide to consider something of a problematic nature, I get the best advice I can, learn if possible from someone that has "been there and done that", start slow and easy, evaluate all along, bail if I need to, and hopefully find a path that works. And most important put full faith and reliance in this being a Chapter project and the AAW insurance! Naive, but for me life is to short to hide under the covers. Served me well so far, and I don't have that far to go. I have a hunch that our chapter teaching youth turners is riskier than teaching a courageous adult who happens to be blind. Some young people, until their frontal cortex is fully developed, don't have a very good connection between there eyes and their brain. But in the AAW we teach and mentor the young none the less.

BTW, from my perspective you are a teacher, and a good one, but your venue is this forum. And thanks for that.

And thanks for your concerns and cautions. They are well placed IMHO,

Jerry

 

[odie]

Thank you, Jerry.....

Your post, and message is a good one. It makes me reflect on what transpired here.

On this subject, I've been able to speak my mind in the generic sense. I have tonight asked myself what would I do if someone I knew, who was blind, asked me for some instruction......! I'm human, just like the rest of you......I have feelings and care for those I know.

I guess, in that particular circumstance, I would probably do it. I would likely speak my mind, but I'd do it for someone whom I know personally. I wouldn't, in the case of the hypothetical teaching example.

later, friend......

ooc

 

[Steve Russell]

Thanks to everyone...

Thanks to everyone for all of the emails and words of support that I have received about the symposium. Hopefully, this symposium will go a long way towards highlighting what a blind person can achieve, if someone will just give them a chance and the opportunity to learn. Take care and best wishes to all of you this holiday season!

Steve Russell
President
Lone Star Woodturners Association, Inc.
"Your Time To Turn" - Symposium Coordinator

http://www.lonestarwoodturners.com

 

[Charles Henderson]

Steve, I think what you and your club are doing is wonderful. Thank you all for being thoughtful of those with disabilities.

This discussion hits close to home for me. I belong to the Mountaintop Turners (actually I'm the VP) of Nogal, NM. Our president is Madeleine Sabo, and she is blind. After a terrible infection that happened roughly 2 years ago, she was left with no vision at all. Through a series of surgeries she has regained very little.

Madeleine, before losing her sight, was quite an impressive woodturner. Her husband, Steve Sabo, shared the love of turning with her in their beautiful shop that our club meets in each month.

I, like others in this thread, hesitated at the thought of a blind person at the lathe when she told me she had no intention of giving up. It started with a modification to the tool rest with pins at each end to keep her from falling off the edge. She turns with a small number of tools, and has jigs set up for each of them. Steve will help her with some things here and there. Mostly mounting and sometimes roughing, but I may be wrong about the details.

She is still turning out impressive work. Beautifully designed, finely shaped, and sanded to perfection with no tear-out. Quite frankly, aside from the surface decoration she did before, her work is right on par and still improving.

Madeleine has had some help in her journey. Doug Guthart, shop director for the New Mexico Federation for the Blind of Alamogordo, NM has been a big help to her. Doug came to our club for a demonstration on safety this past October. He talked to us about ways to keep safe in the shop, and how a blind person can be safe in the shop as well. It was pretty eye opening, and as hard as it is to imagine, keeping a blind person safe in the shop is quite doable.

I can't really convey how inspirational and heart warming Madeleine's story is. She has certainly been an inspiration to me. I suffer from a disability that is unseen. I suffer from severe chronic pain, though for roughly half the year (not consecutively) I have relief through 8 different treatments/surgeries. My problems started about 5 years ago (and progressed), just before I discovered turning, and there have been many times I almost gave it up because being at the lathe for any length of time was just too painful. There were only a couple days a month, maybe, that I felt up to operating a chainsaw. I finally received a diagnosis and began treatment a few months after Madeleine lost her vision, almost 2 years ago. It has been a rough road for me, but it is getting better. Sometimes when I think the pain is too much to fight, I think of what Madeleine goes through to keep going, and it gives me a bit of extra strength and motivation to stay at the lathe.

To the question of teaching a blind person to turn, I would have to say that I may. I first would try to put them in touch with someone like Doug Guthart, but if someone like that was not available to help them, then I would do what I could to make my shop accessible to them and seek teaching skills that would help me relate to them. However, I don't teach, so this is theoretical.

One thing I would certainly never do is advise a blind person interested in turning that they shouldn't attempt it. This really has absolutely nothing to do with PC, either. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. Would you want some guy deciding what you can or can't do? Me neither. Give people a chance, and they will amaze you.

I will pass along the information about the symposium to Doug Guthart, and my club.

 

[Steve Russell]

Thanks Charles...

Hello Charles,

Thanks so much for your posting... Madeleine Sabo's story is so inspiring and one that other visually impaired turners need to hear. I'm receiving emails every day from disabled woodturners about their journey to overcome their disabilities and learn woodturning. These individuals have included not only the visually impaired but also paraplegics, those with the use of only one arm and from one quadriplegic who turns beautiful natural edge bowls to name a few.

A common thread in all of these stories is their ongoing fight to change the perception of what a disabled person is capable of doing... None have ever asked for anything more than the opportunity to learn and achieve their dreams. "Your Time To Turn" is being organized for just that purpose, to give disabled individuals the opportunity to learn more about this magnificent passion we call woodturning.

Please pass my contact information on to Madeleine. I would love to speak with her about our plans for the symposium and to see if she would like to demonstrate at our symposium. Thanks again for your posting and for your compassion for the visually and physically disabled. Take care and best wishes to you and yours for a safe, happy and healthy holiday season!

Steve Russell
President
Lone Star Woodturners Association, Inc.
"Your Time To Turn" - Symposium Coordinator
http://www.lonestarwoodturners.com

 

[Betty Scarpino]

Dennis DeVendra / Blind woodturner

If anyone is interested in reading about Dennis DeVendra's experience as a woodturner who is blind, there is an article about him in the Spring issue (this year) of American Woodturner.

He's had a lot of help from his wife, Genia, and also from Bob Rosand. He took private lessons from Bob.

 

[Dennis DeVendra]

Dennis DeVendra - The Blind Woodturner

Thanks for the link, Dave........

Follow-up.......

I have been to Dennis DeVendra's web site, and I must admit that I am very much impressed! I have nothing but admiration for his determination to learn woodturning. As most of us have, I've heard how the handicapped learn to hone their other senses to compensate for their loss of other(s). A heightened sense of feel and hearing plays a role in DeVendra's success.....and, he deserves respect for overcoming loss of sight to produce turnings on a lathe.

However, I am not able to say this has convinced me that woodturning is a reasonable, or safe quest for someone who does not see. If he does have an accident, I will not be the one to say "I told you so", but is there anyone here that truly believes this man's safety isn't, at the very least, jeopardized by his lack of sight? The very nature of the lathe means that operator mistakes could, and do cause grave bodily harm, up to and including lethal consequences.......

Now......if we are talking about someone who must sit, an amputee, loss of sight in one eye, hearing, or any one of a number of other physical limitations.......I'd have to give my full support to that person in his (her) desire to learn woodturning. Without considering mental capacity, sight, along with severe loss of motor skills, are about the only things I can think of that would prevent me from recommending lathe use by the handicapped.

Once again, I will not allow political correctness to enter this equation. Either it is safe, or it is not......and "feel good" emotions should not be a part of proper decision making.

ooc

Hello to all. I just started reading the AAW forums this evening and stumbled onto the thread. I am honored that others appreciate the work I have done. I have not read all the posts yet, but I wanted to jump in here to talk a little bit about woodturning for those who are blind. For some additional information you may want to go to the spring 2009 AAW Journal for an article I wrote about overcoming challenges.

I will not be critical of those who do not know how I, as a blind person, would turn. I would not expect someone who is not blind to fully understand how one who is would turn. As I would not understand totally how a person in a wheelchair would turn, or someone who cannot hear. This does not mean though that I would discourage or infer that someone with the desire should not follow their dreams.

This is why I think the symposium that Steve has mentioned could be a great breakthrough for people with disabilities. It is one thing to say I do not know how that person does what they do. It is another thing to prevent a person to follow their dream. I am not driving a car or flying a plane. I am using my touch, hearing, and mind to create functional and decorative art, just like most of the people reading this forum. I would hope the symposium would break down some of the myths and misconceptions abut woodturning for a person who is blind. From there I would hope that education possibilities would open up for me and other blind turners. Only a few people have been willing to work with me. A couple who come to mind are Robert Rosand and Jean-Francois Escoule. You can read about those encounters on my website www.blindwoodturner.com/articles.html.


I have been turning since 2004. Starting with pens and have worked my way up to bowls and hollowing. I have a full-time job as a manager at a power company in Columbus so I only get to turn on the weekends and on vacations.

For safety I will follow the same rules as any other turner. I always where an apron. I always ware eye protection. I will usually where a full face protection when turning bowls or when roughing out a large spindle piece. I will usually have my hands on the piece while it is turning after it is roughed out. I have started to ware carpenters’ gloves with the middle, index and thumb fingers exposed so I can feel the cuts. I usually have a few splinters or cuts on my fingers, but no major injuries. I know sighted turners who have ended up with injuries as well.


To sum this up, I appreciate a healthy skepticism for anything that may seem out of the ordinary. I do hope that some would be willing to look a little closer and find out for themselves that turning for those who are blind is possible. The next step is to lend a hand like any turner would do for another to help improve our skills

Thanks – Dennis DeVendra – The Blind Woodturner.

 

[odie]

Hello to all. I just started reading the AAW forums this evening and stumbled onto the thread. I am honored that others appreciate the work I have done. I have not read all the posts yet, but I wanted to jump in here to talk a little bit about woodturning for those who are blind. For some additional information you may want to go to the spring 2009 AAW Journal for an article I wrote about overcoming challenges.

I will not be critical of those who do not know how I, as a blind person, would turn. I would not expect someone who is not blind to fully understand how one who is would turn. As I would not understand totally how a person in a wheelchair would turn, or someone who cannot hear. This does not mean though that I would discourage or infer that someone with the desire should not follow their dreams.

This is why I think the symposium that Steve has mentioned could be a great breakthrough for people with disabilities. It is one thing to say I do not know how that person does what they do. It is another thing to prevent a person to follow their dream. I am not driving a car or flying a plane. I am using my touch, hearing, and mind to create functional and decorative art, just like most of the people reading this forum. I would hope the symposium would break down some of the myths and misconceptions abut woodturning for a person who is blind. From there I would hope that education possibilities would open up for me and other blind turners. Only a few people have been willing to work with me. A couple who come to mind are Robert Rosand and Jean-Francois Escoule. You can read about those encounters on my website www.blindwoodturner.com/articles.html.


I have been turning since 2004. Starting with pens and have worked my way up to bowls and hollowing. I have a full-time job as a manager at a power company in Columbus so I only get to turn on the weekends and on vacations.

For safety I will follow the same rules as any other turner. I always where an apron. I always ware eye protection. I will usually where a full face protection when turning bowls or when roughing out a large spindle piece. I will usually have my hands on the piece while it is turning after it is roughed out. I have started to ware carpenters’ gloves with the middle, index and thumb fingers exposed so I can feel the cuts. I usually have a few splinters or cuts on my fingers, but no major injuries. I know sighted turners who have ended up with injuries as well.


To sum this up, I appreciate a healthy skepticism for anything that may seem out of the ordinary. I do hope that some would be willing to look a little closer and find out for themselves that turning for those who are blind is possible. The next step is to lend a hand like any turner would do for another to help improve our skills

Thanks – Dennis DeVendra – The Blind Woodturner.

Hi Dennis.......

You are correct that I do have a "healthy skepticism" for your choice of dreams. Please understand that it doesn't have anything to do with creating roadblocks to your personal growth......it is strictly a safety issue.

Just as it is with "seeing" persons, lathe turning can be a dangerous thing to do.....but, your particular handicap, is one that would serve to increase concern for your personal well being.

You have proven that a blind person can do.....and, worthy of great respect.....from me, you do have that! I'm sure that you are well aware that some blind persons would only injure themselves if they tried to run a lathe. Just because I understand this, doesn't mean you should give up your personal quest, or calling in life.....no way!

I would not be a person well suited for walking a "tight-rope", but if that's what I wanted to do, I would, as you do, feel some sense of degradation, if anyone stood in the way of my desire to do it..........

I do not stand in your way......but do point out only the obvious.

This whole notion of "political correctness" is something that needs to change in our society. We do absolutely NEED to make judgements, be critical, honor our gut-feelings, instincts, and inner "horse sense".....these are some of the things that make mankind special in the world of living creatures......and, political correctness only serves to deny the obvious.

ooc

 

[odie]

Added edit:

Good morning, Dennis.........

I have thought about this thread some in my sleep last night. I guess I must explain a little something to you.

I am not a man without compassion. It may not seem so to you, but I support your efforts to be whatever you wish to be. If we were to meet any other way, I would not have said to your face what I just said because I wasn't looking to question what you do to YOU......I was speaking in a general way......exactly what I think.

You did put me in an awkward position, by coming here and personally confronting me on what I said......and, I felt obligated to respond, further clarifying my thinking on this issue. From the beginning, my thoughts were not intended for you personally.

You are like "the man from LaMancha" who dreams the impossible dream! If you knew me, you'd know that this attitude is one that I have ultimate respect and admiration for......and that, you certainly do have from me!

I wish you the greatest of successes in your life's quest......you're going to run over a few pot-holes along the way, but if your spirit remains strong, you will earn the right to say, "I did it MY way"!........very, very cool! :cool2:

ooc

 

[Dennis DeVendra]

My thoughts

Added edit:

Good morning, Dennis.........

I have thought about this thread some in my sleep last night. I guess I must explain a little something to you.

I am not a man without compassion. It may not seem so to you, but I support your efforts to be whatever you wish to be. If we were to meet any other way, I would not have said to your face what I just said because I wasn't looking to question what you do to YOU......I was speaking in a general way......exactly what I think.

You did put me in an awkward position, by coming here and personally confronting me on what I said......and, I felt obligated to respond, further clarifying my thinking on this issue. From the beginning, my thoughts were not intended for you personally.

You are like "the man from LaMancha" who dreams the impossible dream! If you knew me, you'd know that this attitude is one that I have ultimate respect and admiration for......and that, you certainly do have from me!

I wish you the greatest of successes in your life's quest......you're going to run over a few pot-holes along the way, but if your spirit remains strong, you will earn the right to say, "I did it MY way"!........very, very cool! :cool2:

ooc

I appreciate your thoughts and considerations. What I am doing, on the face, does seem odd or out of the ordinary. I have stated that on the front page of my web site. I was asked to give the keynote presentation last month at The Ohio State University Facility Services award banquet because of my persistence in overcoming challenges. I pointed out that we all have challenges in our life. You call them pot-holes in the road. My article in the AAW journal has the same theme of overcoming challenges. I believe that it takes a strong person, blind or not, to face challenges in our life and then take them on.

Many people think that a person who is blind should not turn. This makes it very difficult for people like myself to get help. I am fortunate that my local turning club, The Central Ohio Woodturners, has provided me support in my efforts. Also other professional turners have lent a hand. Other turning professionals and training facilities have rejected my requests for lessons or assistance. I cannot imagine anyone who wants to turn that has no support system to help them through. I would think this would be more devastating for a blind person because they cannot see the pictures or watch the training videos. I know for myself that I was getting a little bored just turning pens and did not know how to go to the next step. If it was not for a friend, I’d probably not be turning today.

I am still pushing the envelope of my abilities and need additional assistance and training. This is why I think the “Time To Turn†symposium could be a great help in overcoming some of the misconceptions about turning for people with disabilities, including being blind. This may be a good start in gathering best practices for teaching people with disabilities. I have heard more than once from other turners that they would be interested in teaching, but do not know how to get started. Also some may say that it is more dangerous for those with a disability including someone who is blind. I would argue that turning for someone with a disability could be safer. I know when I step up to the lathe I make sure I have all the protections in place. Can you say that about all turners? If anyone gets a catch on a bowl do you think they are quick enough to get out of the way? I know some of the more experienced turners at my club that still have scars on their head from a flying bowl and they can see, hear, and walk just fine.


I am glad that you have spoken your mind. I think we all should feel free to say what we think as long as it is not hurtful to others. Your comments have also given me an opportunity to voice my opinions. Thanks for that. I do not think I have more ability than most others. I think I have the will to move on and a great support system with my wife, friends, and some turners. What I am asking for all turners is to keep an open mind and be willing to help each other not just the ones that are like themselves. This is my hope for the New Year and the outcome of the upcoming symposium.

 

[odie]

I appreciate your thoughts and considerations. What I am doing, on the face, does seem odd or out of the ordinary. I have stated that on the front page of my web site. I was asked to give the keynote presentation last month at The Ohio State University Facility Services award banquet because of my persistence in overcoming challenges. I pointed out that we all have challenges in our life. You call them pot-holes in the road. My article in the AAW journal has the same theme of overcoming challenges. I believe that it takes a strong person, blind or not, to face challenges in our life and then take them on.

Many people think that a person who is blind should not turn. This makes it very difficult for people like myself to get help. I am fortunate that my local turning club, The Central Ohio Woodturners, has provided me support in my efforts. Also other professional turners have lent a hand. Other turning professionals and training facilities have rejected my requests for lessons or assistance. I cannot imagine anyone who wants to turn that has no support system to help them through. I would think this would be more devastating for a blind person because they cannot see the pictures or watch the training videos. I know for myself that I was getting a little bored just turning pens and did not know how to go to the next step. If it was not for a friend, I’d probably not be turning today.

I am still pushing the envelope of my abilities and need additional assistance and training. This is why I think the “Time To Turn†symposium could be a great help in overcoming some of the misconceptions about turning for people with disabilities, including being blind. This may be a good start in gathering best practices for teaching people with disabilities. I have heard more than once from other turners that they would be interested in teaching, but do not know how to get started. Also some may say that it is more dangerous for those with a disability including someone who is blind. I would argue that turning for someone with a disability could be safer. I know when I step up to the lathe I make sure I have all the protections in place. Can you say that about all turners? If anyone gets a catch on a bowl do you think they are quick enough to get out of the way? I know some of the more experienced turners at my club that still have scars on their head from a flying bowl and they can see, hear, and walk just fine.


I am glad that you have spoken your mind. I think we all should feel free to say what we think as long as it is not hurtful to others. Your comments have also given me an opportunity to voice my opinions. Thanks for that. I do not think I have more ability than most others. I think I have the will to move on and a great support system with my wife, friends, and some turners. What I am asking for all turners is to keep an open mind and be willing to help each other not just the ones that are like themselves. This is my hope for the New Year and the outcome of the upcoming symposium.

Hello again Dennis.......

Just because someone hesitates to suggest that lathe turning is a good choice for the average blind person, doesn't imply being prejudiced.......to the contrary, it's strictly based on a common sense about what is an acceptable, and not an acceptable risk factor. (You may indeed, be the exception to the rule!)

This is where "political correctness" takes a place in this exchange. It's very politically incorrect to suggest that any handicap (Is that term ok to use?) is a reasonable basis for any restriction on an individual's boundaries. I don't subscribe to that at all. I do acknowledge that you and other handicapped persons have overcome your physical disadvantages, risen above them, and have found success, in spite of them.......my great admiration goes to you for that.

Would you, at least, acknowledge that some blind persons might get hurt seriously, if they took up lathe turning? If so, then would you acknowledge that being blind is a hazardous risk in lathe turning, and that some blind persons would be better off to pursue other interests......?

Your mention that some "seeing" persons are not safe, and therefore are not suited to lathe turning is right on the money......couldn't agree with that more. Some people that aren't considered to be handicapped, shouldn't be anywhere near a lathe!

I raise my eyebrow, and am very critical of your motivations when you suggest that you sense some seeing people are hesitant to give you training......because they aren't like you. In this, it is quite possible that it is you that needs to re-evaluate your motivations for saying such a thing........because there are many like me that would gladly give you the training you want.....if they thought it was in your best interests, and not a significant safety hazard.

I have nothing but praise and respect for you.......but, don't expect me to help you do something I feel might be a dangerous pursuit for you. There will be others who would gladly give you your training, so you are not against a brick wall......but, to suggest that I, and those who think like me, as not having understanding, or compassion, is nonsense.

I wonder how many people have 20/20 hindsight after helping someone with something that went against what their common sense told them......?......more than a few have regrets, I suspect.

Good luck, Dennis......I hope you continue to inspire awe in everyone, including me!

ooc