Bark Inclusion in Walnut Bowl

[David Wyke]

I have a 14” walnut bowl on the lathe and it has bark inclusion running from the outside to the inside. I thought about hitting it with thin CA and leaving it as is or filling the voids with coffee grounds or black CA.
Any suggestions?
Pay no attention to the tool marks as I will flip the bowl and make a final pass.

 

[JeffSmith]

If it were mine...and it was to be a functional bowl, I'd fill with black tinted epoxy to stabilize it, turn to final (or near final) thickness then add a few pewas / dutchmen in a contrasting color.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Not able to see the inside but assume it's similar to outside. My standard plan for traditional bowls that are likely to be used and not just for decoration is to fill the inside and just stabilize the outside if it needs it. It can vary depending on the size and openness of the inclusion on the outside. The rustic look on the outside can be a plus unless it makes it awkward or too rough to pick up or handle. Looks like you have enough of a rim to grasp that it wouldn't be a problem. Not sure. That's a lot of CA to use so if I decided to fill I would use two part epoxy and some black or turquoise mica powder. Same for the inside. I'll use CA fills mixed with sanding dust for very small fills but not big ones.

 

[David Wyke]

Not able to see the inside but assume it's similar to outside. My standard plan for traditional bowls that are likely to be used and not just for decoration is to fill the inside and just stabilize the outside if it needs it. It can vary depending on the size and openness of the inclusion on the outside. The rustic look on the outside can be a plus unless it makes it awkward or too rough to pick up or handle. Looks like you have enough of a rim to grasp that it wouldn't be a problem. Not sure. That's a lot of CA to use so if I decided to fill I would use two part epoxy and some black or turquoise mica powder. Same for the inside. I'll use CA fills mixed with sanding dust for very small fills but not big ones.

It looks about the same on the inside, just not as wide. However it is 1-1/2” thick and once I turn the inside to 1/4”-3/8” it will be about the same as the outside. At that point it may fall out so may add some thin CA until I get to that point and make a decision.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Not sure if you plan to turn to final thickness now or after drying. For inclusions that run through the piece or are deep I opt for long work time epoxy that flows well. Quick 5 minute stuff can fool you into thinking it penetrated when it can actually be very shallow and not hold onto the loose bits in the inclusion. When dry and ready to sand I tape the outside and add epoxy from the inside. I use GFlex. Easy to color and it will flow into every nook and crevice and has a long work time. I'm often very surprised at just how much will flow into even the smallest voids and cracks. It should create a nice staring point for sanding on the outside where it meets the tape covering.

 

[David Wyke]

Not sure if you plan to turn to final thickness now or after drying. For inclusions that run through the piece or are deep I opt for long work time epoxy that flows well. Quick 5 minute stuff can fool you into thinking it penetrated when it can actually be very shallow and not hold onto the loose bits in the inclusion. When dry and ready to sand I tape the outside and add epoxy from the inside. I use GFlex. Easy to color and it will flow into every nook and crevice and has a long work time. I'm often very surprised at just how much will flow into even the smallest voids and cracks. It should create a nice staring point for sanding on the outside where it meets the tape covering.

I may try that as the bowl is dry and this is the final turning, thanks!

 

[Dean Center]

What's hiding on the 'bottom side' of the view in photo #1? Are there more inclusions around the branch bases? How to manage the inclusion areas from an artistic standpoint is personal preference. My concern is whether this bowl is safe to turn, or what measures may be needed to make it safe.

 

[John Ames]

If your interested in going outside the box, can always knock the inclusion all the way out and fill the gap with whatever epoxy you like….

 

[DON FRANK]

It looks like this was a crotch because of the double pith. Those will likely crack a little and require some filling. I'd put some PVA sealer on those for sure as it is drying. I wouldn't worry about the bark inclusions until you turn it a second time. this one does not look unsafe to turn. I wouldn't be concerned about it anyway. I'd wait on any glue or ca until you are turning it the second time. That way you will be applying it on dry wood not damp wood. It will be a very pretty bowl when it's done. Nice find.

 

[David Wyke]

What's hiding on the 'bottom side' of the view in photo #1? Are there more inclusions around the branch bases? How to manage the inclusion areas from an artistic standpoint is personal preference. My concern is whether this bowl is safe to turn, or what measures may be needed to make it safe.

The bottom is solid with just a small piece of bark. It is safe to turn as is. I’m going to flip it and take one cut on the inside to make sure nothing is hid.

 

[David Wyke]

It looks like this was a crotch because of the double pith. Those will likely crack a little and require some filling. I'd put some PVA sealer on those for sure as it is drying. I wouldn't worry about the bark inclusions until you turn it a second time. this one does not look unsafe to turn. I wouldn't be concerned about it anyway. I'd wait on any glue or ca until you are turning it the second time. That way you will be applying it on dry wood not damp wood. It will be a very pretty bowl when it's done. Nice find.

The bowl is dry and this is the second turning.

 

[Dave Landers]

Only you can decide if the piece is structurally ok to turn safely. You've already made that decision for a 1.5" thick bowl, but final turning requires more attention to detail. Touch, bang, wiggle, and listen to the bowl to enhance your evaluation. And stop as you turn it down to re-evaluate. Sounds like you have all this covered, but it is worth saying anyway.
Adding epoxy and/or pewa won't always make an unsafe piece safe - especially if significant cracks go thru the tenon or all the way to the rim. And trying to adhere epoxy to flaky bark is structurally sketchy.
You can do things like wrapping strapping tape (that package tape with strings in it) to for a bit of extra insurance.

Assuming it's safe, all the other choices are artistic and utilitarian (are you trying to make a bowl for soup or fruit or display).

Based on the pics, here's what I'd probably do:
Finish turn the outside and take the inside down some more (at least find round).
Dig out the soft stuff in the center of the piths.
Add big pewa across the inclusions and small ones across some of small cracks around the piths, and/or across the pith itself.
Fill inclusions, piths, and cracks from the outside with epoxy (I add a drop or 2 of India ink for black). Painters tape and hot glue dams. Several applications till it's all filled to the outer surface, sand it down and probably one final squeegee to fill pin holes.
Finish turn inside, and re-fill epoxy from the inside.
Finish the foot and address any re-filling there.

It's a lot of work, and a lot of waiting for epoxy to cure.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I'm the odd man out. I just leave stuff like that as natural as I can. If it's prone to falling out, I'll reinforce it with CA. If it falls out, I'll just leave the hole. In this case I would use coffee grounds and CA on the gaps in the second photo. Each of us has their own view. For example, I don't like pewas. /shrug

 

[Marc Banka]

It seems there is plenty of solid wood at the rim, the inclusions don’t go all the way through the foot. So, everything seems connected well enough that I would turn it as is. Your tool work seems good enough that knocking the bark out of the gaps is unlikely. Better stated is that I think you can pull it off. I’m confident I could, so in your shoes, with that piece, I wouldn’t use any fillers.

With plenty of walnut oil to gain maximum darkness and contrast, this could be stunning!
In my humble opinion

 

[Phil Hamel]

I left mine without any glue or epoxy. Turned it down to around 1/4 inch thick. Holes go right through. Use it to hold k-cups, soup wouldn't stay. . Hasn't fallen out even though the bowl warped like mad.

 

[David Wyke]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I have used epoxy and coffee grounds to fill voids in the past but really like leaving natural if possible.
I thinking about it and checking how secure the bark was I made a pass on the inside before making the final turn on the outside.
The bark went all the way across the bottom but didn’t go all the way through so I was able to cut most of it out. I like the outcome but was seriously thinking about some colored epoxy for some contrast.
It was a tough cut on the inside as the bark is hard on ever a sharp Thompson bowl gouge.
Now trying to decide on walnut oil, Danish oil, or lacquer .

 

[Earl McLain]

Great bowl!! The first picture in the original post reminds me of a World War 1 era gas mask...or an alien!! Love it.

 

[John Ames]

That bottom picture sure makes it look angry!! That bark makes some great eyebrows!
Well done!

 

[Neil S]

I don't mind some bark inclusions as long as it doesn't make the piece unstable on the lathe.

I have found that there is shrinkage in and around the inclusion, which provides an opportunity to stabilise as well as highlight the inclusion.

I find such pieces sell as well at the gallery as any of my other work.

Here is an example of a branch inside a walnut bowl...

​