CBN Wheels on Tormek

[Frank F]

Does anyone use the Tormek Style CBN wheels from Woodturners Wonders on their Tormek grinder? Is so, what grit do you use for your turning tools and how do you like them.

I'm looking for a grit that gives similar results as a CBN 180 grit from a bench grinder?

Thanks

 

[Brian Gustin]

Umm I think 180 grit is 180 grit... I would get about the same result on a bench grinder with 180 grit AlOx wheel or 180 grit CBN wheel.... I'd imagine the same result would be had putting 180 grit on a tormek.

 

[Rod Nabholz]

I have the 200 grit version of this product on my Wen knock off Tormek.

Spartan 10" Diameter, 12 mm Arbor (Tormek Style) – Wood Turners Wonders

WoW! Now you can have CBN Wheels for your Tormek Grinder for LESS than the cost of stone wheels! THIS IS HUGE! Discover what hundreds of other CBN wheel users have found out and you will wonder why you waited so long!

woodturnerswonders.com

For what it is worth, here is a pic of my bowl gouge fresh off of the wheel. No honing done.

 

[Rod Nabholz]

A couple more pics of the same gouge

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

I used to use them. Works great, just still very slow....

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have a 1000-grit CBN wheel that I bought from WW six or seven years ago. They said to not use it in water or else the warranty is void. I have always used it in water with Honerite Gold corrosion inhibitor. I never leave the CBN wheel sitting in the water when it isn't being used. I remove the wheel and towel it dry. Here are some of my observations about the WW CBN wheels:

• What I consider a significant error in the design is that the hub is recessed equally on both sides whereas the Tormek stones are flat on the side facing the machine and recessed on the outward-facing side. The result is the WW CBN wheel drags against the frame of the Tormek. I fixed this problem by installing a machined flat disk on the axle to move the WW CBN wheel about ¼" out.
• Initially, the 1000-grit CBN wheel had a very thick plating of crystals and while it produced a very fine finish as one would expect, it also was able to very aggressively remove steel almost like an 80-grit stone. I used it for reshaping several turning tools. It also shed a lot of CBN crystals during this break-in period and made the water really sparkle. This initial wear-in wasn’t unexpected because Ken Rizza told me about it when I bought the CBN wheel.
• After the initial CBN wheel wear settled into its steady-state thin layer of crystals, it behaved like any other 1000-grit stone and was good for touching up a tool edge, but not reshaping a tool.
• I have used the CBN wheel dry, but I don’t care for the mess created by the very fine metal dust.
• The WW CBN wheel is now semi-retired as I am now using Tormek diamond wheels.

 

[Doug Freeman]

The WW CBN wheel is now semi-retired as I am now using Tormek diamond wheels.

Just curious what grit you are using. Club member has a cbn on a Tormek and has the same complaint about the dry grinding mess. I suppose a dc or shop vac could be rigged to grab the dust - no sparks off a 80-100 rpm wheel.

 

[Craig Morton]

I've had the Tormek style wheel on my older T-3 grinder for about 2 months. I got the 600 grit and so far I am very happy with it. No more water, messy sludge, raising and dropping the water tray. Just turn it on and go. 600 grit works great for quick sharpening while turning. I have not used it to change any profiles yet, just sharpen.

 

[Pat Scott]

I've had the WW 320 grit CBN wheel for years, ever since it first came out. I tried it dry but didn't like the filings, but more so I didn't like the high pitched ring it made at times. I ran it with water which took care of that. But I never drop the water tray at the end of the day which I suspect is the reason why a small area of CBN came off at the edge. Like Bill I started using Honerite Gold several years ago to prevent rust, a byproduct of it is that I get some kind of sludge buildup along the inside edge of the wheel that I have to scrape off from time to time. It doesn't build up on the surface and doesn't affect the usage, it's more cosmetic.

If I had to do things over I'd start using the Honerite right away. I like the 320 grit and have thought a 220 grit would be better although everyone says a 600 is the way to go. Or I'd look at the Tormek diamond wheels that are designed to run in water. I only use the Tormek for sharpening bowl and spindle gouges, and use a dry grinder for everything else.

 

[Mike Novak]

I have a 1000-grit CBN wheel that I bought from WW six or seven years ago. They said to not use it in water or else the warranty is void. I have always used it in water with Honerite Gold corrosion inhibitor. I never leave the CBN wheel sitting in the water when it isn't being used. I remove the wheel and towel it dry. Here are some of my observations about the WW CBN wheels:

• What I consider a significant error in the design is that the hub is recessed equally on both sides whereas the Tormek stones are flat on the side facing the machine and recessed on the outward-facing side. The result is the WW CBN wheel drags against the frame of the Tormek. I fixed this problem by installing a machined flat disk on the axle to move the WW CBN wheel about ¼" out.
• Initially, the 1000-grit CBN wheel had a very thick plating of crystals and while it produced a very fine finish as one would expect, it also was able to very aggressively remove steel almost like an 80-grit stone. I used it for reshaping several turning tools. It also shed a lot of CBN crystals during this break-in period and made the water really sparkle. This initial wear-in wasn’t unexpected because Ken Rizza told me about it when I bought the CBN wheel.
• After the initial CBN wheel wear settled into its steady-state thin layer of crystals, it behaved like any other 1000-grit stone and was good for touching up a tool edge, but not reshaping a tool.
• I have used the CBN wheel dry, but I don’t care for the mess created by the very fine metal dust.
• The WW CBN wheel is now semi-retired as I am now using Tormek diamond wheels.

Bill

Why did you switch to the diamond wheel? I’m trying to decide between cbn and diamond

 

[robo hippy]

I went with the diamond wheels, but haven't put them on yet. Mostly for carving chisels. The diamond should last forever. CBN, probably not as long. Glenn Lucas went to all diamond wheels for his classes. When he used CBN wheels, he said he would 'find them new homes after a year'. I know they last a lot longer than that though.

robo hippy

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I’m trying to decide between cbn and diamond

I thought this 7 min Stumpy Nubs video was helpful.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a7TN6mUR414

 

[Randy Heinemann]

I bought the Tormek diamond wheels when they came out. I keep the 600 grit whelp on most of the time for gouge and scraper maintenance. It gives a great long lasting edge. However I use them wet which I think is the way the Tormek is designed to operate regardless of wheel type.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Just curious what grit you are using. Club member has a cbn on a Tormek and has the same complaint about the dry grinding mess. I suppose a dc or shop vac could be rigged to grab the dust - no sparks off a 80-100 rpm wheel.

I have the 600 and 1200 grit diamond stones.

 

[RichColvin]

The general idea is this:

• Diamonds are harder than CBN (see the chart below), however
• Diamonds cannot handle high heat, and can break down / melt when used in situations like industrial grinding; CBN is better for this.

The late Dr. Vadim Kraichuk published this article which goes into some good details about the difference between using diamond vs. CBM grinding wheels, and the effect on sharpening knives: http://knifegrinders.com.au/Manuals/CBN_AKMarticle.pdf.

If you do choose to use CBN wheels on your Tormek, check to see if the manufacturer notes if the wheel can be used with water or must be used dry. Some manufacturers will invalidate their warranty if you use them with water.

I use diamond grinding wheels on my Tormek, and I have found them to be quite good. Tormek’s design is quite good in another aspect: they have a large grinding surface area on the side. This is useful when you want a flat grind on your cutting surface (vs. one with a concave).

Tormek put out this video on why the chose diamond coated surfaces vs. CBN.

View: https://youtu.be/38c95D6z5D8

 

[Bill Boehme]

I like the Tormek diamond stones, but they While they’re bad about causing water to slosh out of the trough. This might not be a problem for the Tormek T8, but it is a problem for my SuperGrind 2000 which I have upgraded to the T7 configuration. It’s really a mess when using the original water trough and not much better with the T7 water trough. The cause of the problem is that water gets inside the diamond stone because the plastic disk on the inboard side of the stone doesn’t make a watertight seal with the steel body. So like a waterwheel, it scoops up water and then dumps it as the wheel rotates through the water trough. The fix seemed simple enough in theory: make a watertight connection between the plastic disk and the steel rim, but it was considerably easier said than done. Neither silicone caulk nor flexible CA glue liked being submerged in water and quickly failed. After trying several different sealants without success, I was about to give up when I decided to try JB Weld Plastic Bonder, a two-part polyurethane glue, that I had used to seal rebuilt 3M battery packs. That turned out to be the the ideal solution. It has bonded to both the plastic and the steel and hasn’t leaked yet.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

I am curious about your problem because I own a SuperGrind 2000 (at least 15 years old; maybe 20). I upgraded to the Tormek diamond wheels when they became available and have no splashing whatsoever during sharpening. They work great. The 600 grit gives me an excellent edge on my turning gouges and scrapers. I'm curious because, in looking at the T7 pictures, there doesn't seem to be any noticeable difference between the T7, T8, or the older SuperGrind so I don't know what you mean when you indicate you have the "T7 configuration". I can't see what would be enough different that it would cause a problem. Have you tried the Tormek Community Forum or Tormek for feedback on your problem.

 

[Bill Boehme]

The T8 is a complete redesign from previous models. It has a diecast zinc frame with ABS side panels. The universal support holders are now a part of the zinc casting. Also, the T8 water tray isn't interchangeable with earlier models.

The SuperGrind 2000 didn't have the stainless steel shaft with the easy lock nut, the water tray didn't have flared sides, there was no micro-adjust on the universal support, only one leg of the universal support was locked down, and the small leather honing wheel was different.

I watched a Tormek webinar and one of the audience questions was about the water sloshing problem. They didn't offer a solution but said it was "normal". They gave an "explanation" that was so nonsensical that I was stunned that they said it. They said that the matrix stones absorb water and therefore can't slosh water, but the diamond stones can't absorb water therefore they slosh. Using their "logic" the WW solid aluminum CBN wheel would also slosh water -- it doesn't. There is hardly a ripple.

Given what you have said about your diamond wheels not getting water inside while mine do, they might have a manufacturing QC problem.

 

[RichColvin]

The AWT-250 water trough (https://tormek.com/en/products/spare-parts/tormek-original-parts/awt-250-water-trough-for-t-7) is the same design as the one on the T-8, but is designed to fit on the T-7 & SuperGrind 2000. That can help with the splashing if needed.

There are other upgrades that I made to my SuperGrind 2000, including:

• replacing the shaft with the stainless steel one which also includes the EzyLock nut (https://tormek.com/en/products/spar...ts/msk-250-stainless-steel-shaft-with-ezylock)
• adding the new USB with micro adjust (https://tormek.com/en/products/spar...s-105-universal-support-with-micro-adjust-t-8). As the diameter of the diamond grinding wheels do not change, you can really speed up your sharpening process by dropping in a USB already setup for what you want to do. If you sharpen a lot of turning tools, contact Wolfgang at Advanced Machinery. Wolfgang sold me some US-103s which I have dedicated to specific purposes, namely:
  • One has a 12mm collar on the threads permanently setting it to the height for the TTS-100‘s A setting
  • Another has a 12mm collar on the threads permanently setting it to the height for the TTS-100‘s B setting
  • A third has an SVD-110 permanently set for sharpening my Alan Lacer skew chisels
  • A fourth has an SVD-110 permanently set for sharpening scrapers.
• adding the rotating base (https://tormek.com/en/products/accessories/rb-180-rotating-base)
• My original drive wheel cracked (after 2 moves and 20 years of use). That was replaced with the newer one (https://tormek.com/en/products/spar...l-parts/r-23-drive-wheel-with-rubber-ring-t-8)
• The old ADV-50 truing tool was replaced with the significantly better TT-50 (https://tormek.com/en/products/accessories/tt-50-truing-tool), though I use it less and less as I typically use the diamond grinding wheels.

So, for a machine which is over 20 yrs old and still going strong, it has worked well.

 

[Edward Kerslake]

I am also using the Wen Wet grinder and plan to get diamond wheels.

Might there be a reason why the 8" wheel would not work on the Tormek T8 (clone)
I understand the radial speed will be reduced by 20% but that's not a big deal. I plan to use a 1000 grit for touch up

My reasoning for getting the 8" is both the price difference and ALSO because the diameter will more closely match the 8" wheels on my bench grinder.

 

[Scott Kershaw]

This thread has been very helpful!!! After using a buddy’s Tormek with the diamond wheel I really came to understand the limitations of the stone wheel with todays tools and technology. I just added a 600 grit Woodturners Wonders wheel this weekend. It definitely had a “grabbyness” that all the other wheels I’ve purchased have had. I’m excited to try the CBN wet with the guidance here.

 

[Ronald Kanne]

Just curious what grit you are using. Club member has a cbn on a Tormek and has the same complaint about the dry grinding mess. I suppose a dc or shop vac could be rigged to grab the dust - no sparks off a 80-100 rpm wheel.

You can mount a magnet under the watertray without water. Steelparticles fall in the tray... works brilliant...

 

[Rod Nabholz]

A magnet in a zip lock bag placed below the wheel is handy for this too.

When the bag becomes covered with metal dust, hold the bag over the trash can, open the bag and pull out the magnet. The dust falls into trash. No mess.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I use a screwdriver to "grab" the magnet and remove it from the small zip lock bag.

 

[Tony Perelli]

Great information here, thanks!

Any recommendations for what WW wheel to get for reshaping a tool?

I run the Wen (tormek knockoff) with the 600grit tormek diamond wheel for general sharpening and love it. I'm considering getting a WW 10" cbn in 60 or 80 or 100 (?) grit for more aggressive reshaping.

Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[Randy Heinemann]

I struggled trying to reshape a couple of gouges on my Tormek and, even with the Tormek 300 grit diamond wheel, it too forever. I finally bought a Rikon slow-speed grinder with CBN wheels and can do whatever I want. It's also better for tuning up my scrapers and various other tools that need more work than just resharpening. It's very difficult to reshape tools with a grinder that turns as slow as the Tormek does (or whatever Tormek knock-off ) you have. It boils down to how long you want to spend reshaping or cutting a different angle bevel.

 

[Doug Freeman]

I agree with @Randy Heinemann. I have a Grizzly wet grinder used for resharpening. I learned quickly it was useless for shaping. A slow speed 8” grinder is much faster. I use a 46gr stone wheel for shaping. The tormek bg-100 tool arm allows use of tormek jigs with a slow grinder.

 

[Tony Perelli]

OK, thanks!
I see lots of good reviews for WoodturnersWonders CBN wheels, any experience with the CBN wheels that VincesWoodenWonders carries? They look nice and I've always had Awesome service with him on other purchases I've made.
Thanks!

 

[James Seyfried]

I like the Tormek diamond stones, but they While they’re bad about causing water to slosh out of the trough. This might not be a problem for the Tormek T8, but it is a problem for my SuperGrind 2000 which I have upgraded to the T7 configuration. It’s really a mess when using the original water trough and not much better with the T7 water trough. The cause of the problem is that water gets inside the diamond stone because the plastic disk on the inboard side of the stone doesn’t make a watertight seal with the steel body. So like a waterwheel, it scoops up water and then dumps it as the wheel rotates through the water trough. The fix seemed simple enough in theory: make a watertight connection between the plastic disk and the steel rim, but it was considerably easier said than done. Neither silicone caulk nor flexible CA glue liked being submerged in water and quickly failed. After trying several different sealants without success, I was about to give up when I decided to try JB Weld Plastic Bonder, a two-part polyurethane glue, that I had used to seal rebuilt 3M battery packs. That turned out to be the the ideal solution. It has bonded to both the plastic and the steel and hasn’t leaked yet.

View attachment 52171


View attachment 52173

Thanks Bill! I finally got around and did this to my diamond wheel and it works great. Being slightly OCD I put frisket on the plastic back and used a x-acto knife to trim back to the plastic. It almost looks like it was factory sealed. For what they cost they should come this way!

 

[Darryn Achall]

Thanks Bill! I finally got around and did this to my diamond wheel and it works great. Being slightly OCD I put frisket on the plastic back and used a x-acto knife to trim back to the plastic. It almost looks like it was factory sealed. For what they cost they should come this way!

I have used 3M 5200 or 5100 sealant on boats a lot. It is cured by being exposed to moisture and works well in water. It may work for sealing a wheel. 5200 is more permanent and the 5100 can usually be removed.