Diluting TransTint Dye

[Ed Weingarden]

I usually dilute transtint dye with DNA, but can no longer find it where I live (CT). I don't want to use water due to the grain raising effect. What other diluents, if any, can be used? Thanks.

 

[Richard Coers]

Buy camp stove fuel, same thing.

 

[Ed Weingarden]

Thank you Richard.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, grain-raising not withstanding, aren't water-based dyes more fade resistant to light (lightfast) than alcohol dyes?

 

[Roger Wiegand]

It's the same metallized acid dye either way for Trans-Tint (they dissolve equally well in water and alcohol), and they are very fade resistant. I use the Mohawk shellac reducer because it is a consistent product that I know works well when using expensive dyes or shellac flakes. Between making up shellac and diluting dye I don't go through but a gallon a year, so the extra cost isn't much in total. I'm never sure I want to trust whatever they's packaging as "fuel" this month-- the composition can change as feedstock prices change.

 

[Russell Nugent]

You can also use something like Everclear, depending on alcohol taxes where you are. It's very cost prohibitive in canada so I use alcohol stove fuel as well.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

You can also use something like Everclear, depending on alcohol taxes where you are. It's very cost prohibitive in canada so I use alcohol stove fuel as well.

Well, even some states limit the proof strength of Everclear. Here in MN, I don't think retailers can sell the highest proof. Their website may say more on this.

Denatured alcohol always makes me nervous. Be careful of the dangerous health effects of the liquid (and maybe even the vapors?).

 

[Russell Nugent]

Well, even some states limit the proof strength of Everclear. Here in MN, I don't think retailers can sell the highest proof. Their website may say more on this.

Denatured alcohol always makes me nervous. Be careful of the dangerous health effects of the liquid (and maybe even the vapors?).

Can barely find denatured alcohol here, but methyl hydrate(far more toxic) is freely available in every hardware store. I guess denatured just isn't toxic enough.

 

[John Ames]

Denatured alcohol always makes me nervous. Be careful of the dangerous health effects of the liquid (and maybe even the vapors?).

Just curious, why would denatured alcohol make you nervous? I've not heard of too many concerns regarding it - maybe my head is in the sand!

 

[Richard Coers]

Just curious, why would denatured alcohol make you nervous? I've not heard of too many concerns regarding it - maybe my head is in the sand!

Have a look at some SDS sheets and you will know why.
Toxic; if swallowed, in contact with skin, if inhaled, causes damage to organs, highly flammable. https://www.sunnysidecorp.com/pdfs/SDS_834G5.pdf

 

[Bill Blasic]

I use Acetone and have done so for years. I know my TransTint is set when I can no longer smell the Acetone.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Have a look at some SDS sheets and you will know why.
Toxic; if swallowed, in contact with skin, if inhaled, causes damage to organs, highly flammable. https://www.sunnysidecorp.com/pdfs/SDS_834G5.pdf

Umm yeah... I thought everybody knew methyl Alcohol (Wood Alcohol) was poisonous. It's been around for what hundreds of years (first discovered in 1690 or so) made from heating wood chips in the absence of air...

Denatured Alcohol is just a mix of that plus good ol' Moonshine (grain alcohol, AKA Ethyl Alcohol) which has been around for thousands of years... and everybody knows THAT stuff can cause severe organ damage anyway, right?

(They add wood alcohol to Booze to make it so people won't drink it!, and call it Denatured....)
I mean I've known this since High School Science class in the 1980's.... Thought it was common knowledge.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Buy camp stove fuel, same thing.

According to www.turnawoodbowl.com, camping fuel has oil in it and possibly other additives. Just a heads up.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Well, even some states limit the proof strength of Everclear. Here in MN, I don't think retailers can sell the highest proof. Their website may say more on this.

Denatured alcohol always makes me nervous. Be careful of the dangerous health effects of the liquid (and maybe even the vapors?).

I've only been at this for a year, but I used DNA every day. Never worried about fumes, getting it on my hands, or anything else for that matter.

 

[Ed Weingarden]

Thanks for all the replies.
@Bill Blasic - I'll give acetone a try since I have some on the shelf.

 

[Dave Bunge]

Umm yeah... I thought everybody knew methyl Alcohol (Wood Alcohol) was poisonous. It's been around for what hundreds of years (first discovered in 1690 or so) made from heating wood chips in the absence of air..

Denatured Alcohol is just a mix of that plus good ol' Moonshine (grain alcohol, AKA Ethyl Alcohol) which has been around for thousands of years... and everybody knows THAT stuff can cause severe organ damage anyway, right?
(They add wood alcohol to Booze to make it so people won't drink it!, and call it Denatured....)

I mean I've known this since High School Science class in the 1980's.... Thought it was common knowledge.

Brian, don't be too cavalier about the hazards of "denatured alcohol". Back in the day when you were still in high school, it was primarily ethyl alcohol, like 95% or so, with bitterants or poisons added so people wouldn't drink it instead of the spirits that have paid the alcohol excise taxes.

But in the past 10 years or so, the composition of what you can buy at the big box stores has changed. Now it's often 50% ethyl alcohol and 50% methyl alcohol. See this SDS for example, scroll down to Section 3 for composition: https://korellis.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Alcohol-Denatured.pdf

Adding the methyl alcohol makes the denatured alcohol significantly more flammable and more dangerous to health. So if you're basing your risk assessment on what you learned about it long ago, it's worth taking a fresh look.

 

[Doug Freeman]

An option might be 91% iso alcohol. Trnatint will mix fine, but I dont know if the 9% water will raise the grain. I’m glad I live where I can still get good solvents.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Brian, don't be too cavalier about the hazards of "denatured alcohol". Back in the day when you were still in high school, it was primarily ethyl alcohol, like 95% or so, with bitterants or poisons added so people wouldn't drink it instead of the spirits that have paid the alcohol excise taxes.

But in the past 10 years or so, the composition of what you can buy at the big box stores has changed. Now it's often 50% ethyl alcohol and 50% methyl alcohol. See this SDS for example, scroll down to Section 3 for composition: https://korellis.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Alcohol-Denatured.pdf

Adding the methyl alcohol makes the denatured alcohol significantly more flammable and more dangerous to health. So if you're basing your risk assessment on what you learned about it long ago, it's worth taking a fresh look.

Yeah, no I'm not downplaying it, but it really isn't much more dangerous than your average lacquer thinner, (Try Toluene if you want something flammable) .. and again, as I said it is just Methyl and Ethyl alcohol - regardless of the percentage of each, it is still no more or less dangerous than it was back in 1985 - Of course, safety rules were not quite as stringent back then (When our Teachers also taught us something called Common Sense and Critical Thinking, which seems to be frowned on these days.)
However, the way some folks make it sound, you'd think DNA was something akin to handling nuclear waste...

When handled using good old common sense and due care and awareness, it is safe enough - as for what amount of due care is needed, it may vary. Some people may react to the substances far more strongly than "most" and thus out of an "abundance of caution and liability concerns" most manufacturers and I imagine instructors, etc are going to recommend measures that to me (and others like me who are not affected by exposure) seem to be overkill. - Same as for handling battery acid - I have literally splattered battery acid (Fresh new battery acid while filling a dry charged battery) all over my hands and arms with zero burning, etc. Someone else might have a reaction bad enough to go to the E.R. (Of course the uniform shirt and pants I wore that day ended up full of holes..) as well as many other potentially dangerous substances common to any workshop (Gasoline can be just as bad as DNA, and in fact, Gasoline can give me a nasty burning skin rash if it gets in my clothes and I don't change them)

In other words, I'd suggest actually reading those MSDS sheets with an understanding what the chemicals actually are (Using a bit of critical thinking) I'm sure you would also use the same care and safety steps when doing laundry (household bleach) or scrubbing the cat's litter box (In which case you do NOT want to be using bleach, right?) or many other household tasks that are just day to day, but if you go through your household cleaning supplies closet and get MSDS for all of them, I'd be willing to bet you'd find a good half dozen of those everyday items are as dangerous (if not more so) as DNA.

 

[Richard Coers]

Yeah, no I'm not downplaying it, but it really isn't much more dangerous than your average lacquer thinner, (Try Toluene if you want something flammable) .. and again, as I said it is just Methyl and Ethyl alcohol - regardless of the percentage of each, it is still no more or less dangerous than it was back in 1985 - Of course, safety rules were not quite as stringent back then (When our Teachers also taught us something called Common Sense and Critical Thinking, which seems to be frowned on these days.)
However, the way some folks make it sound, you'd think DNA was something akin to handling nuclear waste...

When handled using good old common sense and due care and awareness, it is safe enough - as for what amount of due care is needed, it may vary. Some people may react to the substances far more strongly than "most" and thus out of an "abundance of caution and liability concerns" most manufacturers and I imagine instructors, etc are going to recommend measures that to me (and others like me who are not affected by exposure) seem to be overkill. - Same as for handling battery acid - I have literally splattered battery acid (Fresh new battery acid while filling a dry charged battery) all over my hands and arms with zero burning, etc. Someone else might have a reaction bad enough to go to the E.R. (Of course the uniform shirt and pants I wore that day ended up full of holes..) as well as many other potentially dangerous substances common to any workshop (Gasoline can be just as bad as DNA, and in fact, Gasoline can give me a nasty burning skin rash if it gets in my clothes and I don't change them)

In other words, I'd suggest actually reading those MSDS sheets with an understanding what the chemicals actually are (Using a bit of critical thinking) I'm sure you would also use the same care and safety steps when doing laundry (household bleach) or scrubbing the cat's litter box (In which case you do NOT want to be using bleach, right?) or many other household tasks that are just day to day, but if you go through your household cleaning supplies closet and get MSDS for all of them, I'd be willing to bet you'd find a good half dozen of those everyday items are as dangerous (if not more so) as DNA.

You are a bit out of date. They call them SDS now, not MSDS like they used to.
I've always sort of put the danger in the back of my mind. Now at 71 and 53 years of woodworking, it may be catching up with me. I have a saliva gland that swells when I eat, going to have the tubing roto-rotered out soon. A prostate that is restricting flow and maybe the cause of chronic bladder infections. I have severe diverticulosis, arthritic hands, had to have lythotripsy to blow up a huge kidney stone. Try wearing a stint from your kidney to your bladder for 6 weeks! So old age or chemical damage, I don't know, but this old woodworker has become forced into a part time job of visiting doctors and specialists.

 

[Bob Brown]

Yeah, no I'm not downplaying it, but it really isn't much more dangerous than your average lacquer thinner, (Try Toluene if you want something flammable) .. and again, as I said it is just Methyl and Ethyl alcohol - regardless of the percentage of each, it is still no more or less dangerous than it was back in 1985 - Of course, safety rules were not quite as stringent back then (When our Teachers also taught us something called Common Sense and Critical Thinking, which seems to be frowned on these days.)
However, the way some folks make it sound, you'd think DNA was something akin to handling nuclear waste...

When handled using good old common sense and due care and awareness, it is safe enough - as for what amount of due care is needed, it may vary. Some people may react to the substances far more strongly than "most" and thus out of an "abundance of caution and liability concerns" most manufacturers and I imagine instructors, etc are going to recommend measures that to me (and others like me who are not affected by exposure) seem to be overkill. - Same as for handling battery acid - I have literally splattered battery acid (Fresh new battery acid while filling a dry charged battery) all over my hands and arms with zero burning, etc. Someone else might have a reaction bad enough to go to the E.R. (Of course the uniform shirt and pants I wore that day ended up full of holes..) as well as many other potentially dangerous substances common to any workshop (Gasoline can be just as bad as DNA, and in fact, Gasoline can give me a nasty burning skin rash if it gets in my clothes and I don't change them)

In other words, I'd suggest actually reading those MSDS sheets with an understanding what the chemicals actually are (Using a bit of critical thinking) I'm sure you would also use the same care and safety steps when doing laundry (household bleach) or scrubbing the cat's litter box (In which case you do NOT want to be using bleach, right?) or many other household tasks that are just day to day, but if you go through your household cleaning supplies closet and get MSDS for all of them, I'd be willing to bet you'd find a good half dozen of those everyday items are as dangerous (if not more so) as DNA.

Like mixing bleach and limeaway. Fries your lungs in short time.