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Epoxy fill

Joined
Jan 19, 2009
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Phoenix, Arizona
I've been trying epoxy to fill in voids using a pressure pot, but not all the voids filled in. Then tried epoxy with no pressure and still got voids. (pictured) Would a vacuum work better?
Looking for suggestions.
The pressure pot I worked with had a slow leak and is that's a factor. Thanks!
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Dave Landers

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I sometimes fill voids with epoxy (although not as many as in your pics). I usually use plain ol' 5-minute epoxy with some color added (my go-to is a drop or two of India ink). No pressure or vac. The 5-minute stuff gives me time to work it into a crack, but cures fast enough that I can fiddle with it (dam it with tape or playing with gravity) until it sets up. But have to do smaller quantities at a time. I can turn the piece over to do the other side etc after maybe half-hour. (5 minutes is working time, adding coloring powder or dye sometimes shortens that. Takes a few hours till it's set enough to sand.)
But there's always has voids and I just count on needing to do another application or three after sanding it back. Last application to fill tiny pinholes doesn't need color - clear epoxy or drops of CA.
 
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I'm hoping a vacuum pot does the job. There's one sitting under the tree for my xmas gift from my wife which I'm not allowed to touch til it's time. Until then, I use CA or 5-minute epoxy to fill cracks/holes/etc. I've read here and seen on youtube, before mixing epoxy, measure out needed amount and sit container in a cup of warm/hot water, makes the epoxy pour easier? We'll eventually try it.
 
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If I am not mistaken, people use vaccum or l pressure pots with epoxy resisn, poly resin etc to rid resin of bubbles. Pressure pots push the bubbles out, and a vacuum pot would essentially "suck" the air bubbles out.

Those cracks look so small, bubbles probably cant be seen. So now look at the secondary purpose... you want the small voids filled with something sticky (epoxy resin) in hopes that when you are turning, the voids dont give out and turn the piece into several projectiles ... so how do you get the semi solid into those cracks that are very very small before it turns sticky and hard.. If you just use 5 minute expoy OR if you simply engulf the piece in say.... a bucket full of the epoxy resin. What's to say that it will fill every small void? It may not Penetrate far into the piece unless it pushed Into the piece. Adding air pressure around a piece of cracked that is engulfed in a very watery liquid like stabilizing resin will push that liquidy resin into any empty cells I the wood (this is depended on species of course) but if you are using a more viscous semi-solid like epxoy resin, it will be much harder to push that semi solid into small areas, such as very small crack that are in that piece. Plus, you don't even know how deep they go. The deeper the void, the more of that thick semi-solid needs to be squeezed in there! So, to get to the point, since you want to push the resin in, a pressure pot is the way to go, ....buuuuuut... don't expect it to fill all those small voids, use more caution that normal when turning it, and nothing too thin.
 
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Have read on warming up epoxy so it's more fluid, will try that next. Would a vacuum be of help?
I'm hoping it does. A vacuum pulls most/all the air out including the air in cracks/voids allowing it to flow into the cracks I would think. I don't know, yet but will in the next month or so as time allows. Perhaps someone that has used this method can advise us? First thing I'm going to attempt is to use cactus juice (on hand) to treat some lightly punky/spaulted ash that's not making it easy, tear-out city... LOL It's trying to teach me I can't win.... not going to happen!
 
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If you made a little form around your turning and covered it with some casting resin before putting it in the pressure pot, you would have a lot better luck. One issue with that would be moisture in your wood. Urethane resin hates moisture and the resin will foam. To use that you have to bake the part to almost zero moisture. The easy thing about pieces like that, is that you can use a cardboard tube as a form and it would need very little resin.
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
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I tested a piece of olive with known and blind pockets and engulfed the piece in epoxy placed in a pressure pot and had voids after curing.
The pressure pot had air leakage, im sure a factor, or not enough pressure (40Lb. 12 hr) with an 8hr. epoxy cure time.
The pieces above I poured the epoxy into a form and poured it slowly to get it to settle and fill the voids, but as seen this did not work as as expected. So maybe a vacuum would be better? Would a different epoxy or resin work any better?

PS can anyone tell me what to replace the seals with on a HF pot?
Thank you
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
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Strathmore, AB
Vacuum pots are usually used with Cactus Juice as a stabilizer. After the piece is completely covered in Cactus Juice, the vacuum pulls all the air out of the wood (can take hours or days) and then the vacuum is released and the piece is left to soak in the Cactus Juice for twice as long as it was under vacuum. While soaking, the cactus juice flows into the spaces emptied of air by the vacuum. The key things to take away from this process is the amount of time required for the complete process - the sucking of the air out and then the soaking to allow the Cactus Juice to get back in. The Cactus Juice remains in a liquid state throughout. Most resins will not stay liquid long enough for the amount of time required so they will gel or harden before they have a chance to get into the cracks. If you did find a resin that stayed liquid long enough, it could take weeks before hardening.

When using vacuums with resin, the vacuum is usually used with a fairly slow setting resin, and then only to degas the resin (under vacuum for only a minute or two) before pouring. If you are using a fairly quick setting resin, this degas process could just give you a container of foam as the bubbles expand and then the resin sets.

Using pressure with resin compresses the bubbles in the resin to they are too small to see. They are still there but the resin hardens around them. Take a jeweler's loupe and look, and they are there. Using pressure with resin will force the resin into the cracks the same way, as the pressure will compress that air at the end of the crack, but there has to be a clear path for the resin to get into the crack. It will not pass through wood to find and get into any internal cracks that may exist.

The only way I've found to get resin into cracks I can see is to either:

1). Build a mold around the piece, cover the piece with a fairly slow setting resin, and then put it in a pressure pot around 55 or 60 lbs pressure (40 lbs just isn't enough), and keep it at that pressure until the resin has fully set. This can take a lot of resin and can get expensive really quick.

2). Use a slow setting resin. I have used West Systems successfully but there are lot of others out there. Build a dam around the crack and anywhere you think the resin can escape from (it's amazing how that stuff can leak out and make a mess!). Hot melt glue works well for this, or caulk. Resin seems to almost always find a hole if you just use tape. Pour the resin into the crack, and then leave it alone for 2-3 days, maybe even longer depending on size of crack, temperature, humidity, phase of the moon, any black cats in the area, etc. Once it finally cures the larger cracks (complete flow through from one end to the other) and voids should be completely filled, the smaller cracks may be completely filled, the tiniest may still have voids at the end.

As for fixing your HF pot, you may be able to get a new seal from the manufacturer or check the web sites of other makers of pots. Some of them sell replacement seals and you could get lucky and find a seal the right size. Before doing this however, try a layer of petroleum jelly all around the seal (top and bottom), and then make sure you are not creating a leak by tightening the pot too tight. I know that sounds counter intuitive, but if you really cinch down on the hold downs as hard as you can, you could be warping the lid and creating a crack where you will loose pressure. You want the hold downs tight enough to stop leaks, but not so tight you're warping the lid. A tricky balancing act. The pressure pots you purchase that are actually made as casting pressure pots have lot thicker and thus stronger lids than the paint pots from HF that may people modify to do casting and save a bit of money. I've turned the regulator on my compressor down to 60lbs, and then just leave it hooked up to the pot. It may cycle on and off every hour or so, but it kept the pressure up to where it needed to be.

Needless to say, you could end up spending a lot of time and money on resin before you find a fool-proof method that works for you. I found the above worked for me, but I didn't feel it was worth the effort. That's why I pretty well do segmented pieces now. I know I'm working with good stable materials and know what I'll get in the end.

Hope the above helps. Good luck.
 
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Vacuum pots are usually used with Cactus Juice as a stabilizer.
Vacuum is not usually used with Cactus Juice, it HAS to be used if you want full penetration. And not just any vacuum, but a hard vacuum. There are different designs to call vacuum pots, but whatever you use it has to withstand that heavy vacuum. Another way to get penetration in the big cracks is to rough bore out the center, adapt your shop vac hose to seal in that hole, then apply epoxy on the outside of the box or vessel and have the shop vac pull the epoxy all the way through the crack.
 
Joined
Nov 14, 2023
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That looks suspiciously like olive…. Olive is a pain to fill in the way you’re trying to do it.

I don’t know what type of resin you’re using, but I’ll assume it’s a 1:1 casting type resin. That’s the proper choice.

1. Vacuum is unnecessary and won’t help in what you’re trying to accomplish.

2. Pressure is necessary to remove (shrink microscopically) all bubbles. At least 60lbs until the resin has set.

You’ll need to make a mold to surround the piece. The mold needs 1/2” or so (more if there are more cracks) clearance around the piece. The mold cannot be tight against the wood. You can make the mold from cardboard, HDPE, or an old orange juice bottle…. It doesn’t matter. Just make sure it doesn’t leak… hot glue and tape are your best friends.

Use dowels, twigs or something similar to keep the piece centered in the mold and wedged in tight so it won’t float in the resin. The piece needs to be fully submerged in resin for the duration.

Youll have much more penetration with this method. Warming the resin in a water bath before pouring it is a fine idea if it’s cold in your shop.
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
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John, your suspicions are correct, it is olive with may voids. I did use casting type resin 1:1.
From the suggestions above, i do have a path for my next piece of olive (yep). Will experiment and report.
Thank you
 
Joined
May 12, 2004
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I've had pretty good success using System Three "Clear Coat" product for cracks. It's fairly thin and also very slow to cure, a combination that gives generous working time for good penetration. I mix it ( it's 2 parts resin/ 1 part hardener) usually in very small batches, using hypodermic syringes without needles to measure, and have had success with this down to batches as small as 1 ml resin / 1/2/ ml hardener in a shot-glass size condiment cup. Mix thoroughly, and dribble into cracks off the end of a pointy palette knife, adding more bit by bit as it flows down into the cracks. If you use up your first batch, mix another -- this stuff is too expensive to waste needlessly by mixing way too much.
 
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Jun 18, 2023
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Cincinnati, OH
While very attractive, the number of cracks in the blanks probably would turn me away from them.

I fill cracks and worm holes with 5 min or 2 hr epoxy tinted with dry "fresco" powder, most often the raw and burnt umber land raw and burnt sienna (?). First I'll apply blue masking tape tightly around the defect so the tinted expoxy can't accumulate in open pores. For worm holes, I use a paper punch to make a small diameter hole in a short piece of tape; for cracks, pieces of tape close around all edges of the defect.

After mixing and tinting, I use a piece of tongue depressor to try to push/pack the epoxy into the defect, but expect to have to top off worm holes and deep cracks as the epoxy settles in before hardening. I'll position the bowl so the epoxy fill is horizontal so it doesn't slowly run. Sometimes six or more separate fills if defects are on both the inside and outside of a bowl.The epoxy brand I like is Devcon in short pairs of tubes in the hardware store glue/tape section; if not available I'll use the Gorilla Glue or Loctite brands, About five minutes per repair session. If just one or two defects, 5 Min epoxy, otherwise 2 hour.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2021
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Kingsville, ON
I don't use epoxy or resin but I do follow Jim Sprague woodturning. He does a lot of resin casting and turning. He puts out a video every Friday morning and each video will take you thru an entire process he used to make items. He has a great amount of experience and I would highly rec. him to anyone who wishes to learn about resins and epoxies.
 
Joined
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What Norm said. Second my recommendation, and if going by Youtube, when it comes to epoxies, resins, and acrylics, I suspect Zac Higgins is also an excellent source- explained a lot of what to me were mysteries back when and ultimately led me to my decision to not get into epoxy/resins for turning (not to mention I hate the mess it leaves, and can't easily dispose of the resulting chips/waste)
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
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I purchased a deep pour thin, with the hope it will fill voids better.

Teexpert Deep Pour Epoxy Resin, 51oz Epoxy Resin Kit for 2-4" Pour Depths, Crystal Clear & High Gloss, Bubble-Free Casting Resin 2:1 pour.​

 
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