Finishing salad bowls

[Doug Dubowski]

I made 4 individual salad bowls from maple with a zebrawood segmented rim. I am contemplating how to finish them. I have a food safe beeswax/mineral oil finish that I can apply, but am wondering if I can buff these bowls first before applying the beeswax/mineral oil. I can also buff the bowls with some carnauba wax, but not sure how that finish will interact with the beeswax/mineral oil finish. (once the carnauba wax is applied, will the beeswax/mineral oil even stay on?) These bowls are intended to be used on a frequent basis (daily/weekly). Is it worth simply buffing these bowls with beeswax/mineral oil finish? Can I buff the external surface of the bowl with carnauba wax and only treat the inside surface with beeswax/mineral oil finish? These are meant as gifts, so I don't have the luxury of experimenting to see how they turn out.
Any help appreciated.
Doug

 

[Brian Gustin]

I'd do the wax/oil finish first - if you sand or buff the wood too shiny the oil will not soak into the wood as well or as readily - However once you have the oil finish applied, you can put your beeswax or carnauba wax (both food safe, Carnauba wax is just a harder wax than beeswax)

Myself, I'd not even use mineral oil if I was going to be applying wax - I'd use linseed or tung oil (Pure Linseed or Pure Tung, not the stuff you buy at hardware stores!) and let it cure for several days (it wouldn't be fully cured, but well on its way) and then rub in the wax of choice (works better if you can warm it really good to soften things so wax spreads easily) to a nice thick coating then buff it away (buffing creates some heat to melt the wax into wood pores).

 

[Doug Dubowski]

Thanks for the response. I have a beeswax-mineral oil mixture. I can't separate the two. From what you are saying, I can buff the bowls after applying the beeswax-mineral oil mixture (I have a Oneway buffing system with three different wheels, two for buffing compounds and the third for carnauba wax - would I use all three or only the wax wheel?). Don't quite understand the Tung Oil application though. Once applied and cured (about a week?), the bowls could be buffed with compound and wax, or wax only? I would expect the finish to degrade over time from utensils and use. Can it simply be re-applied to restore the finish?
Thanks
Doug

 

[Wally Crawford]

I use a mineral oil/carnauba wax mixture on my salad bowls just because Carnauba is harder and holds up better. If the bowl is washed often, the finish, or any finish, will need to be renewed periodically.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Tung oil or Linseed oil would soak into the wood and cure over time - any wax finish (even mineral oil & wax - I make my own "board butter" from the same , home-made in the kitchen) will not cure... So, yes, once you have applied the oil and wax then you could buff I suppose (But I don't really see the point, Buffing is more of a polish for a cured finish, I would think. Mineral oil doesn't cure so you'd just be smearing oil/wax with your buffing compound mixed in)

If you are gonna use mineral oil & beeswax for a finish, I'd say to sand to not much more than 320-400 grit (any finer, and the oil/wax would not soak in very well) Myself, I'd sand to 220/240 , soak in oil and wax finish and wipe off, and have done with it - In use and after any washing, the wood grains are going to swell here and there, so you'd not have a smooth buffed finish any more anyways... so I would not see the point in buffing a utility bowl - any luster you hope to achieve would be gone after the first use anyway.

(an artisan/display bowl not meant for active use, doesn't need food grade finishes, so they could be finished in a film finish and buffed to a nice gloss)

Upshot is, use your mineral oil & beeswax finish and then either offer up a small (1 ounce tin perhaps might last several years of regular use) portion of the finish for maintenance, or recommend regular oiling/waxing after any washes. Likewise with carved wooden utensils (wood spoons, spatulas and the like). Simple mineral oil you can buy at the pharmacy or digestive aids aisle at dollar store (sold as a laxative) can be used to replenish the finish.

Myself I liked the smell of fresh beeswax (I buy mine from a local apiary at farmer's market - smells like honey! nothing like the beeswax you can buy on amazon) so I made my own batch of "butter" which is just a pint bottle of mineral oil heated in a double boiler until the wax (approximately 3 ounces of beeswax) is melted and blended in , then I poured it into 2 ounce tins (sells for 5 bucks a tin at my local farmer's markets) Once it is cooled to room temperature at about 75 degrees, it is about the consistency of hard (refrigerated) butter (Experimenting with wax to oil ratio may change the proportions til you get what suits your taste) - then just rub paper towel on it to pick up some oil/wax and rub it in to the bowl/ cutting board/ wood utensil (every couple washings)..

But as for buffing, before or after, I don't really see the point, as any result you do get will not last very long if at all...

 

[Doug Dubowski]

Ok, thanks. Will stick with the beeswax/mineral oil mixture. All the bowls are sanded to 320 so that should be ok.

Doug

 

[Brian Kopp]

I found a food safe all natural finish on Amazon called Wood Master’s Secret.

It’s a combination of tung, coconut, tea tree and citrus oil. I’m really pleased with the results, much more so than pure tung, walnut of other food safe oils I’ve tried.

It’s fairly thick so I cut it 50/50 with citrus oil.

 

[Ron Solfest]

You might read Flexner’s book on finishes, particularly the “food safe” discussion.

 

[Michael Nathal]

I don't think mineral oil actually "protects" the wood. Or wax, for that matter. It is there for appearance only. I used to finish my utility ware with walnut oil. After letting it cure, I buffed it with all three wheels. They looked great, until a few washes; then the gloss was gone and they essentially looked unbuffed. I have two salad bowls made from cherry and ~5 cereal bowls from cherry, maple and birch, I use them all with no finish. Going on 5 years and they look fine. In another example, I have a travel mug with a steel liner and a wood exterior. This has an oil base poly finish, and is still glossy after 100's of washes. Finally, I would recommend that you raise the grain before final sanding: wet with water, let dry, and repeat the final sanding grit. Only then apply any oil or wax. Plus one on Flexner.

 

[Dean Center]

I apologize for giving you my bias, but it's pretty strongly held. Since mineral oil doesn't cure, it sits on the surface and gives the wood a slippery, oily feel, in my hands. As noted, it also just makes the wood look nice, for the short time it holds up. Beeswax is soft and doesn't hold up, either. Using the mix is a really fast way to get a good look on the wood and get it in the hands of a customer, but the good look is very temporary. Unless you're a production turner, I recommend taking the time necessary to get a more durable finish.

 

[Brian Gustin]

, I recommend taking the time necessary to get a more durable finish.

Generally I would agree with that.

However, in my experience so far, I do not think there IS any such thing as a durable finish for regular utility use items that will be getting washed (Even with no soap in the water) , so I would look at the softer beeswax and mineral oil as just a way to "rejuvenate" the wood from drying out and getting grainy/rough textured

(Case in point wooden spoons used in my/our kitchen - several have had regular use for years with no finish or anything, and now have a rather rough texture almost like they have been sandblasted.. but there are two I made also several years ago that I make a point to regularly re-treat with my "board butter" and they still have a nice smooth texture and feel to them, these are often the go-to ones for stirring soups and sauces for tasting, because the rough textured ones feel like they're gonna leave splinters in the tongue... Although they DO get stained and are no where near the nice coloring they used to be.. as are all of our wooden utility use items.. no finish is going to be kitchen durable for direct food contact for very long, I don't think.)

 

[Steve Tiedman]

There are common themes, truths, expressed in this thread. Mineral oil, wax (any wax), and combinations thereof, are not permanent. They should be considered cosmetic treatment. Mineral oil makes the grain look good, but it never cures, and whatever it comes in contact with it (food, like salad dressings, or soaps) will remove it. Mineral oil is not an ingredient in any food recipe I've ever made. Wax application, either alone or blended with oil, is a surface treatment, wax molecules simply don't, can't, penetrate enough to be permanent. Proper application, and the final buffing step (by hand or machine), removes +99% of the wax you applied. If you insist on wax, a pure curing oil and wax blend (such as my preferred Tried & True Original, a linseed oil/beeswax blend) will be longer lasting because the cured-in-the-fibers linseed oil isn't going to wash away. Yep, the wax component will go away from the surface after awhile, but the linseed oil component, after 30 days of curing time (no pure oils cure to a solid in a few days), remains within the wood fibers (shallow depth, no oil finish penetrates to the center in typical applications) and cures to a solid from exposure to oxygen. Sure, it helps seal the surface a bit, but its first and greatest benefit is cosmetic.

Peronally...
I'd skip wax products altogether, and no mineral oil, either. Tried & True Danish Oil is straight, pure linseed oil, no wax, my choice. Or, skip finishes altogether and just let time and food/utinsel contact finish the wood for you. Ask yourself, is this a utility piece, or an art piece? Choose one. Time and use can be beautiful finishes in themselves.

Keep an eye on your segmented sections. Time, use, water, etc. may stress the different woods from each other with utility use (not as an art piece).

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

If you insist on wax, a pure curing oil and wax blend (such as my preferred Tried & True Original, a linseed oil/beeswax blend) will be longer lasting because the cured-in-the-fibers linseed oil isn't going to wash away.

+1 for Tried and True Original. It's my go-to finish as well.

 

[Darryl Fective]

For something that gets used a lot, polyurethane is tough to beat; a hard durable finish that is easy to clean and will look great for many years.

 

[Chris Hoehle]

Another +1 for a Tried and True product. I prefer their "Danish Oil" which is actually just 100% pure linseed, heat treated to speed polymerization. 3-5 coats of that, buff between coats and at the end with a Norton white nonwoven pad. I might start a separate thread asking why people still use mineral oil (doesn't cure) when there are so many products available that are still completely nontoxic but cure. I asked on another forum and didn't get any particularly compelling answers, maybe here will be different!

 

[Ricc Havens]

I know a ton of turner typically recommends walnut oil (Mahoney's, Dr's Woodshop, etc). So I will probably get some flack about this but here's my opinion. When I first started selling at craft shows I would tell the people that I finished it with the Mahoey's walnut oil that was specially polymerized to eleviate the possibility of allergic reactions and give them a small bottle of oil with the bowl. And, then they would ask me where to get the oil when that small bottle ran out. I'd tell them it's not sold locally but available online. Some would seem hesitant - as if they didn't want that extra hassle. Being in sales most of my life I would always try to remove obstacles to a potential sale as much as possible. Do niot I just use the stuff available locally at Home Depot or Menards. That way the buyers can easily find it to recondition their bowl as needed. and they don't have to special order the other products online. Something like these -

 

[Jaramiah Severns]

For something that gets used a lot, polyurethane is tough to beat; a hard durable finish that is easy to clean and will look great for many years.

Not sure I’d recommend poly for the interior of a salad bowl meant for regular use. I’ve heard the “all cured finishes are technically food safe” logic, but i still don’t love the idea of little poly chips in my food. It’ll eventually show wear and will be a much bigger pain to restore than T&T, which can be reapplied and buffed back to a shine in a few minutes.

 

[robo hippy]

I won't use anything on a bowl that can't be eaten straight out of the can. Some people are more sensitive than others. I do use the walnut oils, specifically The Doctor's Woodshop since he is from Oregon. For my personal plates and bowls, I just apply the first coats, and pretty much nothing after that. It really doesn't bother them to not have a long term finish on them. I guess you could use a heat gun or oven to cure them in if you wanted, and this is good for cutting boards, especially end grain cutting boards. Not really worth the effort for production work. Maybe the refrigerator/box kilns used for drying twice turned bowls would work better. Mineral oil really doesn't do anything other than provide an overnight 'impermeable' surface for overnight, which is typical for butcher blocks, and it is scraped off in the morning, according to the Doctor....

robo hippy

 

[Matt Miller]

I do like the look and ease of a good poly finish on boxes etc. Minwax oil modified polyurethane is especially nice to spray, dries quickly, looks rich, and is tough as nails. But… for salad bowls, I sand to 400 and give em a good drink of Mahoney’s utility (walnut) oil, wait a week or more, wash the bowl to raise any grain that’s going to come up, let dry and then wet sand to 400 using more utility oil, I’ll burnish on the lathe with shavings or paper if I can get them chucked up and spinning again without too much trouble.

After a week or two a bowl can be waxed to shine it up for display if desired. If I’m going to this step, I don’t use wax with mineral oil or citrus solvent that might soften the walnut oil underneath before it cures. Mahoney has a wax that dries pretty hard and buffs out good.

 

[Richard Coers]

I just can't see how you would ever get any finish in the salad. I use Minwax quick dry poly, but really thin coats.

 

[JeffSmith]

I like a good penetrating oil finish followed by wax for feel. I’ve used general finishes wood bowl finish (or whatever they call it these days) it’s basically an oil/varnish mix. I dilute it about 1:1 or even thinner and apply a couple of coats to penetrate the wood - wiping off the excess. Let it cure, then hand sand with 600 grit and follow up with finishing wax. For those times when I want a little more sheen, it gets a buff, otherwise the finish coat is ren wax and hand buff.
Utility items get the same treatment - they survive quite well in the real world with minimal soaking and drying immediately after rinsing out. Usually they only require a RE wax to renew the finish.

 

[Dean Center]

I won't use anything on a bowl that can't be eaten straight out of the can.

robo hippy

You should try eating mineral oil straight out of the bottle, Reed. Since it's a laxative, you'd be the one in the can.

 

[Matt Miller]

If you put poly on it, she can’t caress the wood, while making a salad.

 

[Bill Alston]

A professional Bowl Turner over here in the UK finishes his Bowls with pure Linseed oil. He stopped using things like Tung and Walnut Oil due to possible allergic reactions. Some oils like Mineral oil never dry so I’d avoid that anyway. I’ve got some Hemp Oil to try. I understand it takes a while to dry but I’m interested to see what it looks like. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Marc Banka]

For salads or other food use, the name of the game is protecting the wood fibers as deeply as possible. Drying oils and varnishes, all of which can be non-toxic right out of the can, thinned with pure turpentine will set the finish deep. Tried and true varnish oil is great. Lots of solids and linseed oil, but far too thick to penetrate, so thinned 1:1 with turpentine sets deep in the wood. This gives a finish that is so easy to maintain, and will block mostly anything that comes in contact. It lasts well, handles hand washing fine.
Since it’s in the wood, not on the wood,,the protection doesn’t wear off.
To achieve the best all natural finish requires quite a lot more drying time. I usually flood the piece with finish. Clear off excess after a few hours or overnight. Maybe a second application and then let it set for a month or so.

As others have pointed out, mineral oil does almost nothing. Goes on easy, washes out with soap.

 

[John Grace]

I use both the Dr. Mahoney's or Butcher Block from Home Depot. Neither are permanent and must be re-applied regularly relative to humidity in the home, frequency of use, and how they're stored. I view both of these products as similar to skin lotion for your hands. Wood, much like skin, dries out for the same reasons I described and should be replenished if you want the piece to endure. As you can see, however, ask 10 woodturners a question and you'll get 42 different answers leaving us with the tried and true adage of 'individual results may vary'. For me...I've read many turners say varnish, poly, etc are all food safe when fully cured. May or may not be true but with a host of perfectly acceptable products tested and labeled as 'food safe', why take that chance?

 

[Bill Alston]

I’m in the UK but out of interest I thought I’d look at Butcher Block Oil. I’m quite surprised by the information in the MSDS.

 

[Graham Dolby]

I use General Finishes Salad Bowl Finish which penetrates and lasts for quite a while before needing refinishing: https://blackforestwood.com/product...7&_sid=338b6ffee&_ss=r&variant=39264145342507
I then recommend Clapham's sald bowl finish which you could use to start with if you don't like the idea of the General product: https://blackforestwood.com/product..._psq=clap&_ss=e&_v=1.0&variant=39264137379883

I am gradually changing to Osmo products that appear to be the best of both worlds. However, after a while you'd still need to touch up with Clapham's.

 

[Darryl Fective]

Not sure I’d recommend poly for the interior of a salad bowl meant for regular use. I’ve heard the “all cured finishes are technically food safe” logic, but i still don’t love the idea of little poly chips in my food. It’ll eventually show wear and will be a much bigger pain to restore than T&T, which can be reapplied and buffed back to a shine in a few minutes.

Diluted polyurethane soaks in and becomes a part of the wood. It's not a thick layer on top, so there are no "little poly chips" coming off. There's also much less of a fire hazard than with linseed oil.

(my cousin had a spontanious combustion linseed oil shop fire-- Not a fan)

 

[Graham Dolby]

Spontaneous combustion can happen with any oil-solvent finish. I know a violin maker who lost his workshop and many violins that way.
It is usually recommended that the rag that was used to apply the finish, is opened up and allowed to dry flat. It is the bunched up rag that holds in the exothermic heat as the finish cures.
I submerge the rags in water in the the coffee cups and lids from Starbuck's etc.

 

[Jaramiah Severns]

Diluted polyurethane soaks in and becomes a part of the wood. It's not a thick layer on top, so there are no "little poly chips" coming off. There's also much less of a fire hazard than with linseed oil.

(my cousin had a spontanious combustion linseed oil shop fire-- Not a fan)

To each their own. If you decide to use poly, make sure to give it 30 days to fully cure. Not considered food safe until then.

 

[John Grace]

Spontaneous combustion can happen with any oil-solvent finish. I know a violin maker who lost his workshop and many violins that way.
It is usually recommended that the rag that was used to apply the finish, is opened up and allowed to dry flat. It is the bunched up rag that holds in the exothermic heat as the finish cures.
I submerge the rags in water in the the coffee cups and lids from Starbuck's etc.

...or a safety can

 

[John Grace]

To each their own. If you decide to use poly, make sure to give it 30 days to fully cure. Not considered food safe until then.

To each their own is right...but I do find interesting that people will trust a product that the manufacturer will not attest to.

 

[Richard Coers]

I'm more concerned about drinking microplastic in my water than having a remote possibility of some kind of poly transference during the short time the food is in contact. It's not like I store food in a poly coated bowl, I eat the salad, wipe out the bowl, and put it away. The wood fibers never swell and feel rough on the 5th time I use it compared to mineral oil. The micro plastic in my water stays inside me for the rest of my life. Wonder why 40 year olds are getting colon cancer? My younger brother died at the age of 48 from colon cancer. It ain't from poly used on a wood bowl!

 

[Donn Fishburn]

I can't truly vouch for this if used with the salad dressing. I've only used it on bowls for chips or the dry salad ingredients when the dressing is added after putting it on a plate.

 

[Jaramiah Severns]

I'm more concerned about drinking microplastic in my water than having a remote possibility of some kind of poly transference during the short time the food is in contact. It's not like I store food in a poly coated bowl, I eat the salad, wipe out the bowl, and put it away. The wood fibers never swell and feel rough on the 5th time I use it compared to mineral oil. The micro plastic in my water stays inside me for the rest of my life. Wonder why 40 year olds are getting colon cancer? My younger brother died at the age of 48 from colon cancer. It ain't from poly used on a wood bowl!

I’m not saying it’s deadly or has carcinogenic properties. Just that, given the choice, I’d prefer not to use poly for items that come into contact with my food. If someone else thinks it’s fine and prefers that finish, great 👍🏻 The long cure time and (IMO) more labor-intensive refinishing process also make it less appealing to me.

 

[Dean Center]

I’m in the UK but out of interest I thought I’d look at Butcher Block Oil. I’m quite surprised by the information in the MSDS.

Bill, can you help me understand the difference between Stoddard Solvent and Mineral Spirits? In my confused brain, I thought they were the same.

 

[robo hippy]

The slow drying oils are harder to get to spontaneously combust, but it can happen. I had some walnut oil soaked rags, and had played with trying to get them to light up for years. It finally happened. It took a mid summer day, with the rag laying on the south side of my shop, on a black plastic bag. I think the black bag was the main culprit. I had stacked several in piles in the gravel, and they didn't even get warm. If it is a curing oil, then it can combust.

robo hippy

 

[Matt Miller]

Sounds like a good addition to the “common sense” thread.
I apply walnut oil with my hands but anyone using rags for an oily product should know how to keep or dispose them so they don’t have a fire. I too know a woodworker who lost his entire business.