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Vicmarc VL 240 swivel head lathe......

odie

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Still wondering if anyone on the forums has one of these yet......? If so, I'd be interested in talking with that person.

http://www.woodworkersemporium.com/Manufacturer/Vicmarc/Vicmarc_Wood_lathes/Vicmarc_V00759-3US

If the Vicmarc VL240 swivel head lathe were available with 1 1/4"x8tpi, #2 Morse tapers, and 1" tool post hole on banjo, I believe this is the only different lathe I'd ever be interested in.....otherwise I'll probably be using my 23 year old Australian Woodfast lathe until I go to my grave!

ko
 

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Bill Boehme

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Woodworkers Emporium has has one on display at SWAT a couple times. I've looked at it and actually touched it. Just like other Vicmarc lathes, they are quality machines. Personally, I don't see a need for a swiveling headstock. My Delta 1440 that I have had for 12 years has a swiveling headstock. I think that I used that feature twice and didn't think that it offered anything that I saw as useful. I am sure that others have different opinions based on different needs since a new model swivel head lathe shows up every few years. Otherwise we would all have the same lathe.
 

odie

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Woodworkers Emporium has has one on display at SWAT a couple times. I've looked at it and actually touched it. Just like other Vicmarc lathes, they are quality machines. Personally, I don't see a need for a swiveling headstock. My Delta 1440 that I have had for 12 years has a swiveling headstock. I think that I used that feature twice and didn't think that it offered anything that I saw as useful. I am sure that others have different opinions based on different needs since a new model swivel head lathe shows up every few years. Otherwise we would all have the same lathe.

Correct, Bill.......there are differing opinions about this! :D

I don't think the swivel head will ever become a "standard" in the woodturning world.....but for my own purposes, I do see it as a boon to my production, as well as an enhancement to my own creativity.

The 30° seems particularly useful to my needs......60°, maybe.....90°, not! All of this is theoretical, of course, as I've never had the opportunity to turn on a swivel head lathe.

My main concern is whether the design of the swivel mechanism is solid enough to handle my requirements of the lathe.

ko
 

hockenbery

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The Rocky Mountain woodturning symposium September 18 is just around the corner

Super set of vendors
http://rmwoodturningsymposium.com/vendors2015.htm

It could be worth a trip just for the vendors

Just a few highlights
Dale will have his bowls
Woodworkers emporium will have Vic Marc lathes
Don Geiger
Hunter tools
North woods
Robust
Bosch tools

If you live within a couple hundred miles of Loveland, consider going.
Kelly it would be a two day drive for you.
 
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I had a sliding headstock before the pivoting ones were available. As far as I can tell, and I have demoed on pivoting headstocks, the sliding headstock does every thing the pivoting one does, and in less time. The biggest problem with the pivoting one is making sure things line up exactly when you move it back into line on the ways. I don't know Vickmark lathes well, but they are high quality, and maybe they have simplified this operation. You generally need an accessory banjo/tool rest set up. As near as I can tell, you want one that goes down to the ground. The ones that have to over extend tend to be a bit bouncy. Only reason to go for the pivot that I can tell is if you don't have room to stand at the tailstock end of the lathe.

robo hippy
 

john lucas

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Where the pivoting head comes in handy is if you have your lathe up against the wall and don't have space. It allows you to turn a bowl out about 30 to 60 degrees and stand in front of it for hollowing. I liked that feature on my old Delta. The lathe itself sucked but that feature was nice. It will also let you turn platter bigger than your swing although you do need some sort of banjo extension or cantilever tool rest to reach around larger turnings.
 

Bill Boehme

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... My main concern is whether the design of the swivel mechanism is solid enough to handle my requirements of the lathe.

From what I saw, the lathe is definitely sturdy. One reason to consider what Al suggested is that they might have a show special price going. Even if they don't, I think that it sure would be worth looking at the lathe and giving it a close look rather than just looking at a picture and then hoping for the best. At SWAT, we had Vicmarc, Robust, Oneway, and Bill Rubenstein's new lathe still in prototype form. Bill was the US distributor for Stubby before they changed ownership and stopped exporting. He has some interesting new concepts in the materials that he uses. I think that one of the vendors also had some jet lathes.

The Rocky Mountain woodturning symposium September 18 is just around the corner

Super set of vendors
http://rmwoodturningsymposium.com/vendors2015.htm

It could be worth a trip just for the vendors ....

I don't know much about the Rocky Mountain symposium, but it does seem to be gaining popularity. You could call Woodworkers Emporium to see if they will have the swivel head Vicmarc there and tell them that you are very interested in looking at one. If it is like other woodturning symposiums, the vendors all have a lot of stuff at special show prices. You could go incognito (fake glasses, nose, and mustache) so that nobody would recognize you. :cool:

If it is like the SWAT symposium, there is no charge to enter the vendor area or the instant gallery.

..... The biggest problem with the pivoting one is making sure things line up exactly when you move it back into line on the ways. I don't know Vickmark lathes well, but they are high quality, and maybe they have simplified this operation.

I could be mistaken, but I think that they have some sort of tapered pin for precision positioning. Maybe I'm just doing thinkful wishing so don't quote.

... I liked that feature on my old Delta. The lathe itself sucked but that feature was nice. It will also let you turn platter bigger than your swing although you do need some sort of banjo extension or cantilever tool rest to reach around larger turnings.

Maybe we had the same model Delta with Reeves drive, 14 inch swing, and 40 inch bed. A ball bearing detent was the only alignment it had ... sucked like a tornado. It would have been a great lathe if it weren't for that and the Reeves drive. There was a predecessor with a 12 inch swing and Reeves drive that wasn't much better.
 
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Odie,
I agree come to our symposium. Woodworkers Emporium comes every year. If you contacted Christian I am sure he would bring one for you to have a look. He was/is great to work with and quite knowledgeable.

Bill,
Our symposium does have a free vendor and instant gallery. There are a lot of good symposiums out there and we are frequently told ours measures up with the best of them. Come join us and for more information go to rmwoodturningsymposium.com
 
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Vl 240

Odie, I have a VL 300 and as soon as I will have my addition to the shop finished (it was supposed to be finished by the mid September but the contractor did not start it yet...) I'm planning to get a second lathe and I'm leaning toward a VL 240. The reason is becouse of the excellent reviews from Glenn Lucas and other that have seen it (not me) at the AAW in Las Vegas. I actually spoke to a well known machinist who sells lathe accessories made in his shop and he was amazed by how secure and easy that head moves and register itself in the perfect position. Furthermore the concept of the turning head has been in the Vicmarc lathes for years with the VL 175 so it is not new but well tested. There is a very good turning guy that uses the VL175 lathe and you can see him on you tube. In one of his clips he defined his VL 175 as a "dream lathe" as an answer to a subscriber question. Here the link to hisyou tube channel http://youtu.be/QuMjAVsQuGE

The tool rests of the Vicmarc lathes all have a 30 mm diameter and... I love it. I believe it is much more solid than the usual 25.4 mm i.e. Oneinch. I really feel the difference. In fact, although I have a bushing to fit the usual inch post in that banjo, which I use regularly with a oneway bowl rest and a trent Bosch hollowing tool stabilizer which is subject to a lot of stress, I bought two Robust rests with a 30 mm post which are obvioulsy more expensive. Much more solid and vibration dampening then the little inch post. This is at least my experience. Once you use a 300 mm post you wonder how is it possible to use a smaller one which feels really small.

My VL300 is the older model without the outboard option so now I'm debated betwenn the VL240 and the new VL300 short SM EVS that has that option. Priceisvery similar. Will see may be next spring.
Regards.
 
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I've had the VL240 for getting close to a year now so maybe I can answer some of your questions.

With regards to alignment of the head there is a machined pin which locates into indents at 0, 30, 60 and 90 degrees. Once this pin is in place the headstock can't be moved, it's a firm fit. So if it isn't accurate from the beginning it's not going to be! (not that that should be an issue with Vicmarc)

The handle that you use to lock things in place basically takes up any slack. The headstock is not pulled down onto the bed like you see in other systems or sliding head lathes. This is the system Vicmarc have been using for about a decade on the VL175 (which is no longer made) and has held up to professional and club use without any reported problems. I'll admit to being sceptical about this set-up when I was looking it. One thing to take into consideration, which I found out about after my purchase, was that swivel or sliding head lathes tend to have more vibration when coring. I'm honestly not sure if it matters or what effect this would have over time. (this observation came from two full time production bowl turners)

The 30 degree indent.
Fantastic! I love it! If you like the slightly undercut or calabash forms that require the tool to be over the bed when cutting under the rim, you'll love the 30 degree indent. It's much more ergonomic to turn and you don't need to lean over the bed (this of course depends on your turning style). The standard banjo is very solid and long enough to turn at this indent without setting up an out rigger (I'll try and get some photos for you this week)

I can't comment on the other indent points as I haven't had reason to use them. The lathe should only be used in the set points with the aligning pin in place and the handle tightened.

Another feature I like is the lockout on the indexing pin. If the pin is in the lathe can't be started...I just like that...not that I've accidentally started a lathe while the spindle lock was on lol ;)

This was my first short-bed lathe which I thought would be great for bowls and hollow forms but I found I was constantly removing the tailstock as it was getting in the way of my tool handles when hollowing (again this depends on how you turn) which is why I bought the extension bed. I honestly can't see the point in a swivel head short bed lathe...but that might just be me. The extension bed is a very heavy affair and unlike the the one on the VL300 it has to have a supporting leg at the end (it's also much more expensive)

If I had the space to set up a VL300 with the outboard bed (which doesn't require a stand) I think I may have gone down that path instead...until I use that 30 degree indent and then I change my mind. Oh, to swivel the head you loosen the handle and remove the pin and then turn the head...very easy and fast.

That's all I can think of for now but if you have any questions I'll answer them if possible (not straightaway as I have a crazy workload at the moment)

Cheers

Josh
 

odie

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Odie,
I agree come to our symposium. Woodworkers Emporium comes every year. If you contacted Christian I am sure he would bring one for you to have a look. He was/is great to work with and quite knowledgeable.

Thank you for the invite, Dale

It's unlikely I'll make it to the symposium because of my family obligations....among other things. I'd probably take a plane to LV and see the lathe in one day.....if I get serious about a Vicmarc 240 purchase. I honestly am not ready to pull the trigger, at the moment.....but, you never know! My "old girl" is like a lady that you get used to over decades of building your life around her......she'd be a hard one to let go, because, even with her quirks, there is nothing I can't accomplish without her help! I shot an email to Christian at woodworker's emporium, and he said the spindle is 1 1/4x8tpi, and the banjo comes supplied with a 1" sleeve to adapt to my numerous tool rests (19 of them, I think!). The specs say #2 M.Tapers in the HS and TS......so, it looks like all my tooling and special home built jigs will fit without special adaptation.

Odie, I have a VL 300 and as soon as I will have my addition to the shop finished (it was supposed to be finished by the mid September but the contractor did not start it yet...) I'm planning to get a second lathe and I'm leaning toward a VL 240. The reason is becouse of the excellent reviews from Glenn Lucas and other that have seen it (not me) at the AAW in Las Vegas. I actually spoke to a well known machinist who sells lathe accessories made in his shop and he was amazed by how secure and easy that head moves and register itself in the perfect position. Furthermore the concept of the turning head has been in the Vicmarc lathes for years with the VL 175 so it is not new but well tested. There is a very good turning guy that uses the VL175 lathe and you can see him on you tube. In one of his clips he defined his VL 175 as a "dream lathe" as an answer to a subscriber question. Here the link to hisyou tube channel http://youtu.be/QuMjAVsQuGE

The tool rests of the Vicmarc lathes all have a 30 mm diameter and... I love it. I believe it is much more solid than the usual 25.4 mm i.e. Oneinch. I really feel the difference. In fact, although I have a bushing to fit the usual inch post in that banjo, which I use regularly with a oneway bowl rest and a trent Bosch hollowing tool stabilizer which is subject to a lot of stress, I bought two Robust rests with a 30 mm post which are obvioulsy more expensive. Much more solid and vibration dampening then the little inch post. This is at least my experience. Once you use a 300 mm post you wonder how is it possible to use a smaller one which feels really small.

My VL300 is the older model without the outboard option so now I'm debated betwenn the VL240 and the new VL300 short SM EVS that has that option. Priceisvery similar. Will see may be next spring.
Regards.

Sergio......the VL300 and VL 240 would be a great combination of two lathes in a shop. I thought about this myself, but just can't afford the room in my shop for two lathes. Yes, I did see some comments from Glenn Lucas about the VL240, and I think his endorsement is a good one to have. I'm wondering about the sleeve for the 1" tool posts....how is it made? Is it a machined sleeve that you slide on each tool rest as you use them? Some of my tool rests vary in diameter slightly (.010"-.020", or thereabouts), so I'm wondering how well that would work....? I assume the sleeve isn't pressed into the banjo....so, that the option of either diameter post would be available......but, I'm not planning on buying even more tool rests!

I've had the VL240 for getting close to a year now so maybe I can answer some of your questions.

With regards to alignment of the head there is a machined pin which locates into indents at 0, 30, 60 and 90 degrees. Once this pin is in place the headstock can't be moved, it's a firm fit. So if it isn't accurate from the beginning it's not going to be! (not that that should be an issue with Vicmarc)

The handle that you use to lock things in place basically takes up any slack. The headstock is not pulled down onto the bed like you see in other systems or sliding head lathes. This is the system Vicmarc have been using for about a decade on the VL175 (which is no longer made) and has held up to professional and club use without any reported problems. I'll admit to being sceptical about this set-up when I was looking it. One thing to take into consideration, which I found out about after my purchase, was that swivel or sliding head lathes tend to have more vibration when coring. I'm honestly not sure if it matters or what effect this would have over time. (this observation came from two full time production bowl turners)

The 30 degree indent.
Fantastic! I love it! If you like the slightly undercut or calabash forms that require the tool to be over the bed when cutting under the rim, you'll love the 30 degree indent. It's much more ergonomic to turn and you don't need to lean over the bed (this of course depends on your turning style). The standard banjo is very solid and long enough to turn at this indent without setting up an out rigger (I'll try and get some photos for you this week)

I can't comment on the other indent points as I haven't had reason to use them. The lathe should only be used in the set points with the aligning pin in place and the handle tightened.

Another feature I like is the lockout on the indexing pin. If the pin is in the lathe can't be started...I just like that...not that I've accidentally started a lathe while the spindle lock was on lol ;)

This was my first short-bed lathe which I thought would be great for bowls and hollow forms but I found I was constantly removing the tailstock as it was getting in the way of my tool handles when hollowing (again this depends on how you turn) which is why I bought the extension bed. I honestly can't see the point in a swivel head short bed lathe...but that might just be me. The extension bed is a very heavy affair and unlike the the one on the VL300 it has to have a supporting leg at the end (it's also much more expensive)

If I had the space to set up a VL300 with the outboard bed (which doesn't require a stand) I think I may have gone down that path instead...until I use that 30 degree indent and then I change my mind. Oh, to swivel the head you loosen the handle and remove the pin and then turn the head...very easy and fast.

That's all I can think of for now but if you have any questions I'll answer them if possible (not straightaway as I have a crazy workload at the moment)

Cheers

Josh

Josh.....thanks for posting. I knew, sooner or later, someone with "hands on" experience on the VL240 would show up! Everything I've ever heard from anyone familiar with Vicmarc lathes, have nothing but good things to say about them. If I ever did get a VL240, I'd opt for the extension bed, as well. I don't think the current VL240 has a leg support for the extension bed.....looks like it's the exact same extension that the VL300 uses.

Question: What is the distance between the two bedways? I have numerous jigs and tooling that are adapted to the gap between the bedways of my Australian Woodfast.

Yes.....I am making "slightly undercut or calabash forms ", and it is my exact reasoning for wanting the VL240 in the first place. I suspect the 30° swivel setting is the only one I'd ever use.....for the same reasons you do. I am able to do any shape I want with my Woodfast, but it does require me to lean quite a bit. I also have grown accustomed to going to the back side of the lathe, and doing some of the work on undercut rims there. A swivel head lathe would be more convenient, but would not enable me to do anything I can't already do.

I had wondered if the banjo was long enough to handle the 30° indent, and see you find it does.....great!

Yes, a swivel head short bed does seem to be self-defeating. Maybe someone else can explain why the VL240 was designed this way.

Glad you are keeping busy.....I'm finding more work for myself since my retirement, that I'm wondering why I ever thought it might be "leisure time"......Ha,ha! :D

Have a good day, my friend....and, thank you again for giving us your personal insights into this 240 lathe!

ko

Note: Below are some examples of typical undercut rims that I do.........
 

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I also love the post size. The sleeves go over the one inch post. They have two holes at different heights to accommodate lathes. Your screw goes through the the hole and tightens firmly against the tool rest post.
 

odie

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I also love the post size. The sleeves go over the one inch post. They have two holes at different heights to accommodate lathes. Your screw goes through the the hole and tightens firmly against the tool rest post.

So, you really don't have a choice in tool rest height.....you have to go with the holes?

I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to just cut off all your 1" posts and have some 30mm steel rod welded in place?

ko
 

Bill Boehme

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So, you really don't have a choice in tool rest height.....you have to go with the holes?

I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to just cut off all your 1" posts and have some 30mm steel rod welded in place?

ko

I'm sure that the sleeves aren't a tight fit. I assume that you put the sleeve in the holed and then the tool rest post goes in. The locking screw goes through a hole in the sleeve and clamps against the post. I have the Advanced Lathe Tools boring bar from Steve Sinner and he supplies a brass sleeve to accommodate either 5/8 or 1/2 inch cutter shanks so I assume that it is similar to what is used on the Vicmarc.

Of course you could always bush the hole if you want to use all of your current tool rests.
 
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Bill has it right. You can set the height of your rest whatever you want. The sleeve is stout. I used it for a long time on my one inch post on my mcnaughton turret. The sleeve fits in your banjo. Run the screw through the hole so it won't lift out when removing tool rest. The screw fits snugly against tool rest post like normal.
 

odie

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Bill has it right. You can set the height of your rest whatever you want. The sleeve is stout. I used it for a long time on my one inch post on my mcnaughton turret. The sleeve fits in your banjo. Run the screw through the hole so it won't lift out when removing tool rest. The screw fits snugly against tool rest post like normal.

Thanks Dale......That sounds a bit better than what I had envisioned.......

ko
 
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Fantastic work! I could definitely see the swivel head getting some use.

I've attached a few photos showing the swivel head at the the 30degree indent from a couple of different angles and showing the banjo at it's longest setting.
I've never used (or needed to use) the banjo that far out and after giving it few hefty hits with a mallet I do think you might notice some vibration but I can't be certain...I might have to play around with that and see what it's like.

You can also see the extension bed with the stand designed for it. The one for the 300 doesn't fit but it would be much easier if it did!

The distance between the two bed ways is 62mm

962.jpg964.jpg965.jpg966.jpg

I wish I had a larger piece ready to chuck up just to show how far out you'd need the banjo on a decent sized piece of work but I don't have anything on the go at the moment...yet :D

Josh
 
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Josh,
The banjo looks like the same one as the vl300. Is it? I have heard before that some were concerned with vibration when extending the banjo on swivel heads on larger pieces. Not sure why it would make a difference extending out as far as it will go on a swivel head or extending it as far as it will go on a sliding/fixed head lathe. I would think any vibration would be equal given banjo lengths being equal. I have turned some large bowls on my current vl300 in which I needed to extend the banjo to its fullest length and have not noticed any vibration.

That's a nice lathe for your set up. If anyone could make a swivel head lathe a solid unit and positive locking it would be Vicmarc.
 
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It could be the same length banjo but I think the vertical section of the casting (that holds the tool rest) is taller on the 300. I've never needed to use it at that extension but I imagine that it would have the same amount of vibration as yours which sounds like none at all.
The Vicmarc swivel head set up is different to anything I've seen and the castings for the bed section of the headstock are massive. I think having the motor low and essentially pulling the rotating headstock straight down onto the bed makes a bit of difference
 

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Fantastic work! I could definitely see the swivel head getting some use.

I've attached a few photos showing the swivel head at the the 30degree indent from a couple of different angles and showing the banjo at it's longest setting.
I've never used (or needed to use) the banjo that far out and after giving it few hefty hits with a mallet I do think you might notice some vibration but I can't be certain...I might have to play around with that and see what it's like.

You can also see the extension bed with the stand designed for it. The one for the 300 doesn't fit but it would be much easier if it did!

The distance between the two bed ways is 62mm

View attachment 8758View attachment 8759View attachment 8760View attachment 8761

I wish I had a larger piece ready to chuck up just to show how far out you'd need the banjo on a decent sized piece of work but I don't have anything on the go at the moment...yet :D

Josh

Thanks, Josh.......and thanks for your input and photos. You've been a great help. I don't know why the VL240 doesn't seem to be very popular with my fellow Americans, but seems to be a natural configuration for the application you and I do, or would use it for.

I'm very interested in the VL240, but my circumstances have changed in the past few days........I'm having a new roof put on my home, and it's costing me much more than I anticipated. This means money for this kind of expense has suddenly become out of reach for me at this time. :mad:

ko
 
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No problem, when I purchased mine there was not much information out there so I try to chime in when I can :)

I hope everything goes smoothly and according to plan with your roof! :eek:

I think these have been selling really well in Europe so I imagine that if you're still thinking about one in the future you'll still be able to buy one (and the way the Aussie dollar has been dropping they'll probably get cheaper! lol)

When I finally get my hands on a big piece of timber to really test it out I'll have to make a post about it

Cheers

Josh
 

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No problem, when I purchased mine there was not much information out there so I try to chime in when I can :) I hope everything goes smoothly and according to plan with your roof! :eek: I think these have been selling really well in Europe so I imagine that if you're still thinking about one in the future you'll still be able to buy one (and the way the Aussie dollar has been dropping they'll probably get cheaper! lol) When I finally get my hands on a big piece of timber to really test it out I'll have to make a post about it Cheers Josh

The vicmarc lathes are the most asked for lathe by the European demonstrators at the AAW. we have trouble getting a vendors to loan us lathes.
Christian at woodworkers emporium helps us out when we are in the west but it is too expensive for him when we are in the east.
ONEWAY continues to be the most asked for lathe overall, Powermatic second.

Al
 
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