Rumor

[Mike Gibson]

Can anyone confirm the rumor l heard that the AAW is going to charge people to visit the vendors area at the International Symposium if you are not registered to attend the Symposium. This does not seem fair as there are many people out there that cannot afford to attend and would like to see and buy the latest tools or to the vendors that pay a fair sum to be there. If true were the vendors told before signing up?

 

[Brent@TurnRobust]

It's true Michael, and I for one am disappointed in the decision. If you are an AAW member, you get in for free, but if you are a non-AAW member you will be charged $10 to visit the trade show. Brent English, Robust Tools.

 

[hockenbery]

Brent is correct, the AAW decided to charge a small fee to attend the instant gallery, exhibitions, and the trade show.
It is something I and others had proposed doing many years ago.

This fee is comparable to what most trade show events charge.

The symposium attendees pay for the symposium. In and ideal world costs=Expense.
One way to keep registration cost down is to charge a small fee for attending the free events.


Al

 

[Brent@TurnRobust]

Al, I like you a lot and have great respect for you. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Being in business, I understand the numbers game, but I also understand that sometimes you have to give things away to get the bigger prize. That's why Powermatic gives you a 3520 to raffle off, and I'll give 36 toolrests and 36 drive center sets to the kids program and the women-in-turning program. Others do similar things for the AAW and to promote their overalll agenda.

In this instance, free trade show admission may lead to getting new members. I know it influenced me, as I went the Orlando Symposium 12-13 years ago for the trade show and instant gallery. Liking what I saw there, I joined the AAW.

I'll step out of the conversation, but am interested in hearing what other members have to say.

Brent English, Robust Tools

 

[dbonertz]

I agree with Brent. Vendors donate to the Aaw frequently and now the AAW wants to cut of prospective sales at the convention for folks who won't stop by now that they have to pay to enter. Seems counter productive. As Brent said look at the big picture, not quite his words but similar meaning. Also how many vendors may start pulling donations that they would have donated prior to this policy, time will tell.

 

[Dwight R Rutherford]

So if I want to show my wife (who is not a member) the new lathe I want to buy, I'll have to pay $10.00 for the privilege?

 

[John King]

Seems Reasonable to Me

I can't think of a single trade/vendor show that I have attended that was free. That includes woodworking shows, car shows, motorcycle shows, model train shows, hunting expositions, rodeo trade shows, etc. The list is lengthy. Additionally, I often had to pay for parking at the trade show. So, in my opinion, AAW has just aligned itself with all other trade shows by charging admission. - John

PS - It is not uncommon for trade shows to be closed to the public. Registration for the symposium is frequently required for entry into the trade show. - J

 

[robo hippy]

While many trade shows do charge admission, most stores do not unless they are a member only store and they are few and 'exclusive'. There is a local Home and Garden show that 'asks' for canned food donations for the local food bank, but otherwise, admission is free. They have, by far, the highest attendance of this type of show in the state. I think the vendor area and gallery should be free to encourage more people to come in and view. This is particularly true for those who are curious, but not hooked.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

I think that everybody has valid arguments and what John says is true for every trade show and craft fair in the DFW area. However, here are a few of my thoughts of why this fee doesn't make sense:

• The number of vendors at a typical trade show or craft fair in this area is huge and by comparison the number of vendors at the AAW symposium is tiny. Woodturning is a tiny niche market and it makes sense to do things that nurture that market because it is to the benefit of all ... not just the vendors.
• How much money does the AAW spend to advertise the woodturning vendors so that the public is aware of its existence? Probably nothing compared to what is spent by other shows that charge admission. Seems like there ought to some benefit to the vendors as a result of this fee.
• Charging a fee for one aspect of the symposium to offset costs in other areas is a very bad idea.
• How much is the AAW expecting to rake in as a result of this fee ... $50 ... $50,000 or more? Probably much closer to the $50. How likely is it that this fee will discourage people from going to the vendor area considering that it is a very tiny show compared to something like the Woodworking Shows.

If the AAW feels that it is fair to charge admission to the vendor area for the general public then make attending the vendor area an option for registered attendees as well just like paying for the Celebration Dinner is an option. Also, consider charging to visit the instant gallery and the benefit auction.

This seems to have been a very shortsighted decision based solely on how to make ends meet. If the AAW would like to save money on the symposiums they should consider less expensive venues rather than discouraging public attendance.

 

[hockenbery]

The Trade Show is cornerstone of the symposium.
The vendors are extremely generous and supportive of our members and the symposium.
We could not do the symposium as we do it without vendor support.


Brent, I appreciate all you do for the AAW.
I'll pass your concerns to the board.
Al

 

[Steve Worcester]

Al, I like you a lot and have great respect for you. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Being in business, I understand the numbers game, but I also understand that sometimes you have to give things away to get the bigger prize. That's why Powermatic gives you a 3520 to raffle off, and I'll give 36 toolrests and 36 drive center sets to the kids program and the women-in-turning program. Others do similar things for the AAW and to promote their overalll agenda.

In this instance, free trade show admission may lead to getting new members. I know it influenced me, as I went the Orlando Symposium 12-13 years ago for the trade show and instant gallery. Liking what I saw there, I joined the AAW.

I'll step out of the conversation, but am interested in hearing what other members have to say.

Brent English, Robust Tools

I agree completely. We are an organization that has built itself on the free exchange of information.

When they started requiring you to register a few years ago to get into the free areas of the Symposium, I saw a decline in walk through.
If we are going to charge to get into the vendor area (and this is a symposium, not a trade show that is just vendor booths), then can we expect a reduction of vendor fees in the future?

 

[hockenbery]

The AAW board sets the cost of registration, vendor booths, and the new admission.
The idea is make the symposium pay for itself. Some years it makes a profit some years it loses a bit.
On average it is pretty close to break even.
Steve, I think the best you can hope for is for vendor fees not to go up as fast or as much if non-AAW members pay $10 to attend the formerly free to all parts.

Your voices will be heard by a call to a board member or to Phil McDonald the executive director or both.
Phil told me a message was sent to all the vendors describing the fee for admission to the trade show.
Phil is likely to consider silence as agreement.

Phil and the board do listen to the members. It is our association....

Al

 

[Sergio Villa]

This what i read on the about section of the AAW:
...
Mission
The mission of the American Association of Woodturners is to provide education, information, and organization to those interested in turning wood.
...

I'm not attending but certainly this seems to me a very poor choice. The AAW should try not to lose money but certainly its main goal should be to attract as many people as possible to woodturning. There shoukd be an ethical bottomline which relates to the mission statement.

Woodturners will come even in a less grandiose setting and if the demostrators are paid too much they should be brought to more reasonable grounds.

 

[robo hippy]

After pondering this for a bit, I have an after thought... For me, if I was going to run a symposium (no I am not going to even attempt to organize one and if you have seen my shop you know why), it should not be just a show case for the turners, but an event to draw in new and interested people. I would send flyers out to every school that has a woodshop and every store that sells woodworking supplies so they can post it, within 100 miles or so, about the event. This means grade, middle, junior high, high, college, community centers, and trade schools. Most of these students, and yes, we really need to recruit more young people, won't be able to afford the demonstrations, and for sure schools will not be able to send their students. The parking fees at the event sights can be intimidating enough for those on a root beer budget. If the students and schools have to shell out $10 per student, or more just to see the toys and gallery, that will discourage most of them. The gallery and vendor areas need to be open access. Just about any one can afford to do that...

robo hippy

 

[Charlie Knighton]

I wonder if instead of very large venues the aaw would choose a smaller venue and limit the # of attendees. there is such a large attendance that it almost runs the cost up and makes the break even point too high. I know its a different type of symposium when you can only count on a limited attendance at the regional or state level. if you chose a venue and limited attendance to 800 to 900 (the early bird gets the worm), the type of venue and cost of venue would be different. I like florida, lot of good turners in the state, but at tampa symposium the first day was mobbed, next two days very different attendance, need to run some #'s if yall need the revenue that charging for the gallery and trade area. just something to consider......I believe the next symposium after Atlanta is already signed contract for.

 

[dbonertz]

If the AAW wants to cover the cost of the symposium every year and maybe make a dollar or two then stop reinventing the wheel every year. Have the symposium on the anniversary year in Minn./St. Paul. The other four years pick four great locations around the country that are easy to get to by interstate, have a international airport nearby (cheap flights), good hotels near venue and restaurants nearby. Much easier to negotiate fees, meals and etc. when the venue knows you are returning every 5th year.

Don't grab at straws. Make clean sound business decisions. The above idea has been toted before with some people not fond of the change. I think once it is explained that it is needed for smoothing the operation thus able to control costs folks will come around to the change. It simplifies/benefits vendors, the AAW setup teams and truthfully everyone involved. You may be surprised how you can break even or make money every year with some consistency in the conference program.

 

[hockenbery]

I wonder if instead of very large venues the aaw would choose a smaller venue and limit the # of attendees. there is such a large attendance that it almost runs the cost up and makes the break even point too high. I know its a different type of symposium when you can only count on a limited attendance at the regional or state level. if you chose a venue and limited attendance to 800 to 900 (the early bird gets the worm), the type of venue and cost of venue would be different. I like florida, lot of good turners in the state, but at tampa symposium the first day was mobbed, next two days very different attendance, need to run some #'s if yall need the revenue that charging for the gallery and trade area. just something to consider......I believe the next symposium after Atlanta is already signed contract for.

Charlie,

That is a good idea and the concept has gotten a lot of discussion over the past two years
Go to places where we cap attendance at some number.
If you have any specific thoughts on making this work contact Jeff Brockett, symposium committee chair.
Have 2 a year? Some type of partnership with regionals? A web participation option?
Have the big one every x years have a smaller one in the other years.

The banquet was capped a long time ago because all venues don't all have the capacity to seat all the attendees.
Al

 

[Bill Boehme]

How about something like a "Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free-Card" when you pay the $10 to enter the vendor area. If you spend at least $10, show the receipt when you leave and you get your $10 back. It might be an incentive to buy something and not just window shop.

 

[AnnHerbst]

Please explain the details

I have looked at the symposium page on "Events Open to the Public."
I read the above posts.

My questions:
1. Is the $10 fee only for the trade show or for all "events open to the public"? The symposium page is unclear to me.
Note: the fee is not listed at the top of the page, but after the trade show part and before the charitable part.

2. Will there be a way for the public to come and go from the trade show (and/or other public areas) without paying the fee over and over? Will the fee last the weekend or for one day only?

3. If significant others are taking classes in the craft room and/or going on sponsored trips are they considered registered for entry into the "Events Open to the Public?"

4. The symposium page states,
"Registered symposium attendees: Free
General public and non-registered symposium guests: $10"
Above Brent English stated, "If you are an AAW member, you get in for free, but if you are a non-AAW member you will be charged $10 to visit the trade show." Note Brent is a vendor who Al said, "Phil told me a message was sent to all the vendors describing the fee for admission to the trade show." So there is confusion on this topic.

5. Why was $10 chosen as a starting point? IF this needs to be, why not start with $5?
OR $3 for everyone? (A small donation by everyone for the good of the order.)

6. My last point is that Al commented, "Phil is likely to consider silence as agreement."
I once had a conversation with my brother where he made a monetary suggestion. I was taken aback by his suggestion and decided to think about it before discussing it with him. He later commented that he took my silence as agreement. I explained to him that I had NOT agreed by my silence, and did not feel we were done with the topic. (It concerned care for our 95 year old mother that was not an emergency.) The AAW may be making the same mistake. After all being told this is what we are going to do is not the same as asking what the vendors thought about the idea.

It may be prudent for the board to discuss this idea further.

Ann

 

[john lucas]

Since it is in Atlanta this year and my family can come and see the instant gallery I need to find out if that costs also. I had to be out of town yesterday and couldn't call them but I will this morning. Well I'll wait until they are up. I just realized the time.

 

[Bill Blasic]

As I have stated elsewhere I think the vendors should band together and ask the AAW what a symposium would look like without them.

 

[hockenbery]

As I have stated elsewhere I think the vendors should band together and ask the AAW what a symposium would look like without them.

The vendors are valued members of AAW as are all attendees. the Members are the AAW.
There is no need to create an adversarial relationship among factions of the AAW.

The BOD, ED, & symposium committee work hard a making the vendors successful because it recognizes the value of the trade show.

I for one do not think the small fee will hurt sales. I think it will increase traffic as the small fee announced in the press release will associate a value with the experience.
AAW members already know about it and get in for free.

The ED, BOD, symposium COMITTEE spend a lot of time on critiques and member suggestions looking for ways to improve the symposium.

About four years ago we completely restructured the symposium time line making making four of the breaks between demonstrations an hour instead of the 20 minutes needed for the attendees to get from one to the other. A suggestion from a vendor to provide more shopping Windows. It sure makes a longer day for BOD and the AAW staff.

 

[R Henrickson]

I think it would useful, and perhaps enlightening, to have the AAW report how much it actually collects this symposium from this $10 fee, and how that number relates to the total cost of the symposium.

 

[john lucas]

Well there's probably no way to really track it but I would like to see how much is spent by non registered attendees vs registered attendees. I think the best thing to do is to simply monitor and question what is going on at this symposium. we as members can always voice our suggestions to the board and if we see a problem bring it up. It can always be reversed.

 

[Brian Libby]

Totally Turning had a $10 fee this year to enter the vendors area this year. Last year my wife purchased from a vendor and wanted to purchase some more of the same items but would not pay the $10 fee. There was not any fee last year. It should be free to the public!

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

It seems counterproductive to put the gallery behind a paywall. That is where inspiration comes from and may inspire some new turners. Students should at least get in free.

This year was my first Totally Turning and I was surprised to find that there was a flatwork woodworking show going on at the same time, with some pretty big names! I thought maybe that was why the fee for vendor area.

Doug

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

........................................................................................................................................................

This fee is comparable to what most trade show events charge.

...................................................................................................................................................................................................


Al

Not in my experience, local and national machine tool and related type trade shows are and have always been free. These shows can be large in comparison to the AAW events with very high vendor fees.

 

[hockenbery]

Not in my experience, local and national machine tool and related type trade shows are and have always been free. These shows can be large in comparison to the AAW events with very high vendor fees.

We just had the woodworking show in Tampa.
$10 online $12 at the door. While it is h
General woodworking with some turning it is about the size of AAW's trades show

It would be great if AAW found a sponsor with deep pockets to make the whole symposium free.

Al

 

[Charlie Knighton]

are most people who just go to the trade show and gallery semi local.....by that I mean they live close enough to just drive up for the day?????????

anybody that is paying hotel rates espically around convention center and meals probably will pay symposium fee also......I can not see those people with motel/hotel just coming for trade show and gallery

any way to check that assumption

 

[Richard Coers]

We just had the woodworking show in Tampa.
$10 online $12 at the door. While it is h
General woodworking with some turning it is about the size of AAW's trades show

It would be great if AAW found a sponsor with deep pockets to make the whole symposium free.

Al

Did you have Woodworking Show annual members mixed with the general public? Of course not, I can't follow your logic in this comparison.
The AAW made a decision on this one, I can't imagine more than 50 people from the general public would need the ticket. Is $500 going to make a difference? Does the AAW advertise their symposium to the general public, if so I've never seen it. But, all the symposiums have been hundreds and hundreds of miles from me. Maybe they do advertise in the city of the event. If the membership can't carry the cost of the event, then it needs financial changes. We don't need a symposium sponsor, unless we want it called the Duck Dynasty Symposium for Woodturners. That will confuse the general public because they have no idea what a woodturner is. I've only been to one symposium. I hated the over crowded demo rooms, people running from one room to try and get a seat in the next, and people standing in the hall trying to get a peek at the demo because the room was packed to the gills. That was Louisville and I've never wanted to attend another. I'm just not a giant crowd kind of guy.

 

[hockenbery]

Did you have Woodworking Show annual members mixed with the general public? Of course not, I can't follow your logic in this comparison. The AAW made a decision on this one, I can't imagine more than 50 people from the general public would need the ticket. Is $500 going to make a difference? Does the AAW advertise their symposium to the general public, if so I've never seen it. But, all the symposiums have been hundreds and hundreds of miles from me. Maybe they do advertise in the city of the event. If the membership can't carry the cost of the event, then it needs financial changes. We don't need a symposium sponsor, unless we want it called the Duck Dynasty Symposium for Woodturners. That will confuse the general public because they have no idea what a woodturner is. I've only been to one symposium. I hated the over crowded demo rooms, people running from one room to try and get a seat in the next, and people standing in the hall trying to get a peek at the demo because the room was packed to the gills. That was Louisville and I've never wanted to attend another. I'm just not a giant crowd kind of guy.

Richard you make some excellent points.
Local advertising for the AAW Atlanta is being expanded with the expectation that the nominal fee will off set the advertising costs
And make a basis for expanding the advertising more next year.
If successful there will be more local traffic.

As far as mixed attendance another reason for charging a fee is that those member paying a registration fee make the whole show possible.
Letting folks in for free means registrants pay for the public to come to their symposium. ( probably a small percentage cares)
Allowing AAW members in for free give some added value to AAW membership.
It is worth a try.

Al

 

[Brent@TurnRobust]

Going to jump in briefly again. The symposium has multiple parts (demos, galleries and the trade show), and the AAW has multiple goals with the symposium (education, social and recruitment). To me the galleries and trade shows are great recruitment tools. Also something for the spouses to visit while the turner in the family gets educated at the demos.

So, the AAW symposium is not a stand-alone show, like the woodworking shows, where the cost of admission, along with booth fees, is part of the event organizer's revenue and very much needed if the event is going to happen. Comparisons to a stand alone show are really apples and oranges.

This is our national organization's event and the main revenue comes from symposium registration and booth fees paid by the vendors (Robust Tools will pay $2,700 just in booth fees). I think that the trade show and galleries are part of recruitment, and I think recruits need to see those parts of the symposium for free.

And yes, I do think $10 at the door is enough to turn away the potential new AAW member, especially if he/she has family in tow.

PS: Credit where credit is very due: The AAW has made great strides in recent years to make the trade show vendor friendly, and that is much appreciated. But let's keep it free.

 

[dbonertz]

Al,
I don't know if you are following the thread on WOW on this subject but you should. Some good things in the thread.

 

[hockenbery]

I have lost my WoW account from being inactive
I need an invite.
Al@woodturner.org
Thanks,
Al

 

[dbonertz]

Do you want an invite?

 

[AnnHerbst]

Answers please

I and others still have these questions.

I have looked at the symposium page on "Events Open to the Public."
I read the above posts.

My questions:
1. Is the $10 fee only for the trade show or for all "events open to the public"? The symposium page is unclear to me.
Note: the fee is not listed at the top of the page, but after the trade show part and before the charitable part.

2. Will there be a way for the public to come and go from the trade show (and/or other public areas) without paying the fee over and over? Will the fee last the weekend or for one day only?

3. If significant others are taking classes in the craft room and/or going on sponsored trips are they considered registered for entry into the "Events Open to the Public?"

4. The symposium page states,
"Registered symposium attendees: Free
General public and non-registered symposium guests: $10"
Above Brent English stated, "If you are an AAW member, you get in for free, but if you are a non-AAW member you will be charged $10 to visit the trade show." Note Brent is a vendor who Al said, "Phil told me a message was sent to all the vendors describing the fee for admission to the trade show." So there is confusion on this topic.

5. Why was $10 chosen as a starting point? IF this needs to be, why not start with $5?
OR $3 for everyone? (A small donation by everyone for the good of the order.)

* * *

Ann

 

[robo hippy]

I agree with Brent on this. This event is not only for show and tell, it is for recruitment, and added fees make it difficult for many to attend. This is exactly along the lines of the event itself, which is not for those on any kind of modest budget. The convention centers, hotels, and dining places essentially price gouge, which may be fine for big corporations who will pay any fee. If the event is totally about the woodturning industry, then fine, but it is probably more geared to education, which needs to be expanded to bring in more people. I only have a single booth space, and it stretches my budget, and for me it is more of a hobby that supports itself rather than a way to make a living.

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

Do you want an invite?

Yes. I let mine expire form non use.

 

[hockenbery]

I and others still have these questions.

A few answers.
Attendee significant others can register and get a badge for free that lets them attend everything but the demonstrations.
The will need to do so with the registered member.

The trade show walk ins will get a wristband.

$10 was chosen as number that would purchase $5000 in advertising if 500 people paid the $10.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Al,
I don't know if you are following the thread on WOW on this subject but you should. Some good things in the thread.

I've been reading both of the threads. There are some good comments being offered both pro and con on WoW. One person said that he traveled to the SWAT symposium every year to only attend the vendor area and not the demonstrations and would quit going if they started charging an admission fee to the vendor area. As far as I know, SWAT has no plans to charge admission to the general public ... if for no other reason than the additional revenue would probably amount to no more than pocket change. BTW, the woodturner did say that he usually spent some money in the vendor area.

And, I actually did run into a man and his wife several years ago who lived in the area and even though he wasn't a woodturner, he wanted to see the show and asked how much was the admission. I said that it was free, but unfortunately, it was Sunday afternoon and everything was already shutting down. I told them about the SWAT symposium and woodturning and that we would be back the next year.

I think that in many cases the vendors are actually losing money if you look at just their sales versus expenses. However, in the long term it is hopefully good advertising. Somebody has to foot the bill or these symposiums and trade shows ... what's fair? It's not an easy question. Vendors have a likelihood of recouping some of their costs, but not the registered attendees. If the AAW wants to try paid advertising to draw more people to the trade show, are the vendors willing to foot the bill? After all, on average the vendors stand a chance of benefiting from advertising. Something to consider is that non-woodturners are more interested in window shopping than buying assuming that there won't be any "Sham-Wows" or drill bits that never go dull in the show. If they come out of curiosity to see what strange things that woodturners do, charging admission is probably enough to kill that thought.