Stu Batty

[john lucas]

Ashley did an excellent job of teaching and is obviously a good turner. I enjoyed her demos. I ran the video camera and she is much easier to keep up with than Stuart and knows how to work with the camera that made my job easier.
I've been playing with the 40/40 grind for several years. It's ok. I dont think it's the cats meow. It does cut cleaner than my Thompson v gouge but then it is ground at 50 degrees or so. A more blunt angle will not cut as clean as a more acute angle, however it let's me cut the entire bowl without having to change to a bottom feeder gouge. I also prefer longer wings on the grind because I use pull cuts and shear scraping cuts with my gouge. If I want a really clean cut I use my Hunter Osprey or Hercules in a push cut and it cuts as clean as my 40/40 gouge and you dont need to sharpen it. If I really need a clean cut I use my Spindle gouge which is ground to 35 degrees but of course it won't let you turn all parts of the bowl. Just my opinion of course but it's based on a lot of turning.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Fast Forward to January 25 & 26, 2019,

Tennessee Association of Woodturners 2019Woodturning Symposium

I spent two demonstration sessions with one of the hardest working wood turners in the business, Ashley Harwood. I have watched some of her videos with Batty, and without Batty, and she is definitely an admitted Batty disciple. I honestly have not given her enough credit up until now, but she is as amazing as Batty, and swears by the 40/40 grind and I have a whole new view of her and the 40/40. I asked Harwood some challenging questions while one-on-one in between sessions and she not only seemed appreciative, but asked me to bring them up during the next demo, which I did. One thing I mentioned is the radical idea of trying to get a predominantly grey haired & post retirement audience to forget about all the money we have spent on grinding jigs and accessories in order to easily achieve the ubiquitous 60 degree Ellsworth/ Irish/ Lucas/ etc grind. "Why can't I use my Ellsworth grind on that simple, easy, and effortless push cut you are doing? Because it won't be simple, easy, effortless, or clean."

The 40/40 is a no-jig, hand ground edge which I am looking forward to trying as soon as I get back to my shop.

Meanwhile, I'd like to know if there are any converts out there that have tried it and stuck with it?

You probably missed my thread about Stu. He stayed with me for a week. I knew within 5 minutes that I had to learn his technique. I have all my gouges but 2 converted to the 40/40. It takes some practice, but now it's so easy to sharpen by hand, way faster than having to search and using the wolverine jig. I can cut Koa as I have never seen it done before. I can achieve a way better final surface with less effort and in less time than with my older technique. You will find a lot of resistance from the turning community, lots of negative comments about it. Not sure why. Personally, it took some guts to admit that the technique I was using for well over 20 years wasn't the best option for my style of turning and for the woods that I use. I have noticed that the main complaint is that hand sharpening is too hard, tools are not cheap. People are comfortable using a jig with their $100 plus gouge, something I can understand. Buy one of those inexpensive HF gouges to learn is my advice...

 

[john lucas]

I read your post. I dont have a bit of trouble sharpening the grind and I do use it. For me it's just not the do everything grind.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I read your post. I dont have a bit of trouble sharpening the grind and I do use it. For me it's just not the do everything grind.

Earlier I answered from my phone, I didn’t realized I was back in my old thread about Stu... So, of course I know you read my post! LOL But, I was responding to Tom...

 

[john lucas]

Mike Hunter said to say hi to you. We will see you in Raleigh

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Mike Hunter said to say hi to you. We will see you in Raleigh

So looking forward to Raleigh! I already purchased my airline ticket, had the miles so I figure I better do it. I'm all set! Mike is such a nice guy, we are lucky to have him in our field. Aloha

 

[Richard Hodsdon]

Following on from this post and one in the UK, I watched the video of Stu Battys demo to the Mid Maryland Club. He is a great demonstrator and turner. Hopefully one day we will se him here in South Africa.
One thing I noticed and maybe somebody here can supply the answer. Couldn't find an emails address for him so decided to ask here.
The chisels he used had very long handles, are they really necessary , I usualy use long heavy handles when the wood is fighting back. Does the 40/40 really require that much extra effort? or is it just because Stu really takes such big cuts.
Thanks

 

[Tom Albrecht]

That's a good question, and I asked Ashley Harwood a similar version of that same question last weekend at the Tennessee Symposium (Ashley apprenticed with Batty, uses his 40/40 grind, and sells his SB tools).
You can see one of those long handles in the attached video, and it was during this that I questioned the use of it. Harwood replied that it is strictly for leverage, and she is actually holding it very lightly and pushing with her right arm. She also has a very light guiding grip with her left hand as opposed to the "death grip" that I personally am trying to get rid of.

View: https://youtu.be/E7zskoftVrQ

 

[Bill Boehme]

NOTE: I can't figure out how to load a video, so until then, take my word for it.

Go to the video on YouTube or Vimeo and then click on the URL in the address bar of your browser. This will highlight the URL. Next, type <CTRL> C (hold down the control key while typing the letter c. This will copy the URL. Next, go to thr post where you want to show the video and click the place in your post where you want the video to be placed and type <CTRL> V (hold down the control key while typing the letter v). That's all that you need to do ... the software handles everything else.

 

[john lucas]

The long handles serve two purposes. One is leverage of course. The other is control. when you have a short handle moving your right hand 1 inch equals X movement of the bevel which or course steers the cut. If you have a long handle in might 2 or 3 inches to equal the same movement of the bevel so you have much finer control. Of course if you choke up on the handle all of that changes.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Go to the video on YouTube or Vimeo and then click on the URL in the address bar of your browser. This will highlight the URL. Next, type <CTRL> C (hold down the control key while typing the letter c. This will copy the URL. Next, go to thr post where you want to show the video and click the place in your post where you want the video to be placed and type <CTRL> V (hold down the control key while typing the letter v). That's all that you need to do ... the software handles everything else.

Thanks Bill, I’ll have to post it on YouTube first.

 

[Richard Hodsdon]

Thanks guys, Ashley Harwood is holding it a a lot looser than Stu does in his video. Maybe his handle is a lot heavier (LOL). And as you stated John Lucas , it is the good old Minute of Angle (MOA) well discussed in target shooting. (One MOA = 1 inch at 100yds , 3 In at 300yds etc) when testing ammo/rifles for grouping.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, that long handle confuses me. Yes, you have a longer lever with the long handle, but you are holding your arms way out away from your body. To me that is just too many long levers in a row rather than a shorter one or two. Slide the headstock down, and you can keep your arms in closer to your body for more stability, and better control by using your body to move instead of your arms. I always figures Stuart's method was an adaptation for the long bed lathe where he reaches instead of bending over, or using the pull cut on the outside like Mike Mahoney does. Their inside the bowl technique is pretty similar.

Tom, you should see Ashley turn her finials. Seemed to me that she didn't use her fingers to stabilize them. A master of "The bevel should rub the wood, but the wood should not know it." That was one of the difficult things for me to learn.

robo hippy

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Well, that long handle confuses me. Yes, you have a longer lever with the long handle, but you are holding your arms way out away from your body. To me that is just too many long levers in a row rather than a shorter one or two. Slide the headstock down, and you can keep your arms in closer to your body for more stability, and better control by using your body to move instead of your arms. I always figures Stuart's method was an adaptation for the long bed lathe where he reaches instead of bending over, or using the pull cut on the outside like Mike Mahoney does. Their inside the bowl technique is pretty similar.

Tom, you should see Ashley turn her finials. Seemed to me that she didn't use her fingers to stabilize them. A master of "The bevel should rub the wood, but the wood should not know it." That was one of the difficult things for me to learn.

robo hippy

You make some interesting observations RH. Come to think of it, in every video I've seen of Batty when he's using a lathe with a sliding headstock, he manages to complain about some vibrations that he feels and then blames it on debris under the headstock. He then goes on to use that vibration bit as a reason that he prefers fixed head lathes. But, I've never seen him take advantage of the sliders and move the headstock down towards the end.

And I did see Ashley use the handle on her hip with body movement to guide some cuts. I also watched her demo the LITTLE finials for her Sea Urchins-- also done mostly with the 40/40 gouge and a SB Vortex tool. She's a Master turner and does a good demo.

 

[robo hippy]

There was a recent thread about sliding headstocks in this forum. I don't have enough experience on the Vicmarc to make any real user comments. but the headstock design, the lock down mechanism, and the size of the pressure plate on the bottom can make a huge difference in vibration issues. I saw a recent video about Ashley and she is sponsored by Laguna now. I would like to chat with her and see what she thinks of that lathe compared to the Vic...

robo hippy

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Never had a vibration/ allingnment problem with my former Oneway (stationary) or with my current sliding American Beauty.

 

[Don C Davis]

OK guys, are y'all telling me that you can't set up your robo hippy guide or your Wolverine jig to do this 40/40 grind--and help me out--what happens to the other 20% with this grind???

 

[Tom Albrecht]

OK guys, are y'all telling me that you can't set up your robo hippy guide or your Wolverine jig to do this 40/40 grind--and help me out--what happens to the other 20% with this grid???

My Robo guide does a fine 40/40, so does my Wolverine. No Jig needed, just some practice.
Cindy Drozda shows how:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_KDSIDAtGc&t=38s

 

[Don C Davis]

Thanks Tom, Cindy always seems to know what she's talking about!!

 

[Russell Karkheck]

Great thread! It’s been said - undoubtedly accurately - that I’m not capable of restricting myself to $.02. So, here’s my $.04. I had the great privilege of studying with Stu Batty for *5* whole days in 2017. Not to be arrogant,truly, but I have a Ph.D. in psychology which, counting undergraduate education, caused me to log 12 damn years in class. Of course, there were multiple post doctoral classes, as well as classes in many, non-psychology special interest subjects, including turning. Stu Batty was the absolute BEST teacher I ever had for anything! And, yes, I’m a 40/40 convert. You have to learn to sharpen, and how to present the tool. There IS a learning curve, and I sometimes I get it wrong. But when you hit the “groove”, you won’t believe the finish. If you ever get the opportunity to study with Stu, do it. You will be blown away!

 

[robo hippy]

The robo rest will set at 40 degrees, or any 5 degree increments between 25 and 90. There is a 40 degree sweep angle on the platform too. Working on figuring out a repeatable method for those who want to sharpen their NRSs upside down....

I think a lot of us could make for very interesting case studies for the psychos.........

robo hippy