Abrasives for polishing wax mix

[Don C Davis]

I recently made some Walnut Oil/Beeswax/Carnuba wax polish--I was wondering what abrasives I could blend in to achieve a mix like Yorkshire Grit. I really like Yorkshire Grit, it's just abusively priced!! I would appreciate any advice/input on how I could achieve a similar mix!!

Thanks folks--Don

 

[Mike Brazeau]

I did some research thanks to Dr. Google on this a few weeks ago. Lee Valley carry both Pumice in two grades and Rottenstone, whch is the same material as found in Tripoli polish. One pound quantiry will produce enough that maybe you could sell in your club! Because you will never use it all up personally. I am not convinced that even though it provides a great shine that it is a long term finish. Seems to be popular.

 

[Don C Davis]

Well that's a good lead Mike at any rate, do you know if either of those materials break down as you polish with them--I would prefer that they do--I just am not that familiar with the specifics of Pumice or Rottenstone even though I have heard of both of them.
Thanks Mike.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Well that's a good lead Mike at any rate, do you know if either of those materials break down as you polish with them--I would prefer that they do--I just am not that familiar with the specifics of Pumice or Rottenstone even though I have heard of both of them.
Thanks Mike.

By breaking down I assume that you mean wearing down to finer size grit sort of like the wearing down of the abrasive in sandpaper. The answer would be yes, but not by a huge amount. Pumice is volcanic ash and is much coarser. Rottenstone is basically the skeletons of microscopic organisms that built up sedimentary layers on ancient seabeds. Some purists claim that there is a difference between tripoli (which was first mined from cliffs near the Mediterranean city of Tripoli) and rottenstone which is basically the same thing mined elsewhere. I believe that some rottenstone comes from deposits in Pennsylvania.

If you were asking if either of these abrasives decompose into something that dissolves in the finish, the answer is no. Pumice is inorganic glass-like igneous rock and rottenstone did its decomposing many epochs ago and what's left isn't soluble in any kind of finish.

 

[Don C Davis]

Billl, that's exactly the information I was seeking--thank you so much-I look forward to the day when I have enough info like this that I can be a help to others like you and so many others around here are. Greatly appreciated brother!
Yorkshire grit claims that it's abrasive compounds break down when being used and their paste ends up being a polishing wax only....

 

[Adam Cottrill]

I recently watched a youtube video by Daniel Vilarino where he provided a recipe for an abrasive wax compound exactly like this. I haven't actually mixed up his recipe, but I did buy the abrasive compound from Lee Valley. Just another unfinished project on the to do list.

Not sure if links are allowed, but you should be able to find the video easily enough by searching his name and "abrasive" on you tube.

Adam

 

[Don C Davis]

I appreciate that intel Adam, I just watched Daniel's video--helpful....

 

[Michael Mills]

Almost every turner I watch has done a segment on Yorkshire Grit. It appears a can was sent to the top 100 youtubers by subscription numbers. Vilarino excluded but I haven't watched all of his videos.
Per all the instruction I have viewed you sand to 220 or higher, then apply a sanding sealer, then used the Hampshire Grit, then rub all of the Yorkshire Grit off. Then you apply your finish; of course Hampshire Sheen suggested.

If you do a search for pictures the tub/tin shows all of the ingredients on the lid.

Corrected: swapped my Yorkshire and Hampshire

 

[Jeff Hornung]

Hi gang. I’m actually the US importer of both products. Yorkshire Grit is priced as such due to overseas shipping and import costs plus the exchange rate between our countries. My profit margin is very small, that’s why i can’t supply other vendors. Not enough margin for them to make money too. You use very little per piece, one can should last a very long time. Heck, I’m still using one of the metal cans myself, it’s only my second can. We sent out maybe a dozen free tins in the US when it was launched a couple years ago. I don’t know how many he sent in the UK. No where near 100, that would be an enormous amount of money. No reviewers have ever gotten paid. If the like it, they use it and recommend. Nothing more. And I still had to pay for those free cans...and import costs...and postage to the individuals. Nothing is ever free.
Also, Yorkshire Grit and Hampshire Sheen are 2 different companies with HS hitting the market almost a year before YG. They simply work well together. You can use any drying finish after the Grit, not everyone likes a paste wax. If anyone wants more info, I’m easy to contact.

 

[John Turpin]

I pretty much use YG and HS for all of my bowls now that don't need to be food safe. It's expensive, but a little bit seems to go a long way.

 

[Don C Davis]

Jeff, I'm glad to see you weigh in here, and happy to learn who you are--I totally understand your cost equation--it just winds up being expensive I bought the tin I am using about 6 months ago--so it does last a decent amount of time--but I've probably used half the tin, and I've only done 6-8 mid size (6-10") bowls and 25 pens I've used it on--so I have just purchased 2 more tins from-you I guess-and I recently made up several tins of Walnut Oil/Beeswax/Carnuba Wax and I started thinking of how I could make a Yorkshire Grit similar mix--thus my post--at any rate I appreciate all the input folks--Regards--Don

 

[Michael Mills]

My apologies to Jeff if I came off negative or made wrong assumptions.
Assumption: Both were from the same company ... base on the fact that I normally see them together such as here ...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDb_RYLheQc

Marketing: I don't know how many was sent out but picked a figure out of the air. But .. Ogle (US). Waldt (UK), Diap (Croatia), Yuval (Italy)... There is nothing wrong with that, it is what I would do. I started two companies in my working life and would have loved to get my product in front of targeted groups at (IMHO) a very low price. This list subscribers by ranking (for woodturning) and as you can see Carl has close to 200,000 subscribers alone and over 25 million views. https://www.woodturningonline.com/videos/videos.php?catid=6
BTW all of the folks who I saw reviewed it gave it great grades.

 

[Jeff Hornung]

Jeff, I'm glad to see you weigh in here, and happy to learn who you are--I totally understand your cost equation--it just winds up being expensive I bought the tin I am using about 6 months ago--so it does last a decent amount of time--but I've probably used half the tin, and I've only done 6-8 mid size (6-10") bowls and 25 pens I've used it on--so I have just purchased 2 more tins from-you I guess-and I recently made up several tins of Walnut Oil/Beeswax/Carnuba Wax and I started thinking of how I could make a Yorkshire Grit similar mix--thus my post--at any rate I appreciate all the input folks--Regards--Don

No worries, Don. I must say though if you’ve only done 6-8 mid size bowls and pens but have used half a can...I think you’re using too much per piece. You really only need a very small amount. Very thin coat on the piece. I do appreciate your business but one of the big advantages of this product is it should last a long time and do many many turnings. In 2 years I’ve only used a can and a half. Not exactly a production turner but I’ve done a bit of work in that time. Lol. Give me a call if you want to talk specifics, i’d much rather you get the value and volume of use as we intend.

 

[Mike Brazeau]

I think the topic has been beaten to death and I certainly support Jeff's efforts to make it available. There is a fellow in Ontario making it under what seems authorization from the UK. I only use this type of finish on small spindle stuff and one day doing ornament finials thought of it as an addition to a mixture of carnuba and conservators microcrystalline wax one day. For myself, I would not find Beeswax hard enough long term. I know turners that rave about Shellawax too. Found this very old reference at Google Books to Rottensone and Emery that is informational. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KVZIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA270&dq=wrought+progress+rendered+obselete+rotten-stone+emery&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pNyHVKDjGIa6UYyQhKAJ&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=wrought progress rendered obselete rotten-stone emery&f=false

Forgot to answer the question about does it get finer. I don no see why you could not grind it down in size using a motar and pestle. I sold lab equipment early in my career and have a nice Coors Porcelain set that I use to grind red shale as a filler for cracks and voids in cherry. You can sieve it using an old pair of pantyhose.

 

[Jeff Hornung]

My apologies to Jeff if I came off negative or made wrong assumptions.
Assumption: Both were from the same company ... base on the fact that I normally see them together such as here ...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDb_RYLheQc

Marketing: I don't know how many was sent out but picked a figure out of the air. But .. Ogle (US). Waldt (UK), Diap (Croatia), Yuval (Italy)... There is nothing wrong with that, it is what I would do. I started two companies in my working life and would have loved to get my product in front of targeted groups at (IMHO) a very low price. This list subscribers by ranking (for woodturning) and as you can see Carl has close to 200,000 subscribers alone and over 25 million views. https://www.woodturningonline.com/videos/videos.php?catid=6
BTW all of the folks who I saw reviewed it gave it great grades.

Hi Michael. I know it looks like we flooded the market to stack the deck in our favor, other brands in many industries have done the same. We haven’t, the product (Yorkshire Grit) really is that good. It’s all made by one middle aged bald fat guy by hand, who could almost be my brother, in the kitchen of his apartment in the UK. All of it. He is suppling to all Europe. I cover all US sales and there is an importer in Canada and Australia as well. He targeted a handful of the most popular YouTubers, we did give out a few free tins...no one has ever been paid for advertising or review...and things just snowballed. Glyn is smart and social media is phenomenal for getting a good product out with little outlay on our part. It’s been one hell of a wild ride, honestly. I’ve never seen a legitimate product move like Grit has. Because of that I absolutely push Hampshire Sheen as a partner product. But I do so because it also works so well.

Anyway, no worries. I’ve been in art based retail manufacturing my whole life. If you like something, use it. If you don’t, that’s ok too. As a product manufacturer (I make several of the Hampshire Sheen products here in St Louis) I know it will cost someone much more in time and sourcing supplies to “make their own” and that’s ok too. Honestly, that’s how Grit came about in the first place. Glyn was having debilitating allergy issues cause by fine sanding dust. The available products at that time were not good enough so he made his own in order to keep turning. Things just kind of exploded from there. I encourage people to experiment if they want, that’s how new products wind up on the market.

 

[Jeff Hornung]

I think the topic has been beaten to death and I certainly support Jeff's efforts to make it available. There is a fellow in Ontario making it under what seems authorization from the UK. I only use this type of finish on small spindle stuff and one day doing ornament finials thought of it as an addition to a mixture of carnuba and conservators microcrystalline wax one day. For myself, I would not find Beeswax hard enough long term. I know turners that rave about Shellawax too. Found this very old reference at Google Books to Rottensone and Emery that is informational. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KVZIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA270&dq=wrought+progress+rendered+obselete+rotten-stone+emery&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pNyHVKDjGIa6UYyQhKAJ&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=wrought progress rendered obselete rotten-stone emery&f=false

Forgot to answer the question about does it get finer. I don no see why you could not grind it down in size using a motar and pestle. I sold lab equipment early in my career and have a nice Coors Porcelain set that I use to grind red shale as a filler for cracks and voids in cherry. You can sieve it using an old pair of pantyhose.

Thanks Mike, I appreciate it. Rob Summerlin is the Canadian importer of Grit and licensed manufacturer of the Hampshire Sheen line.

 

[Don C Davis]

Jeff, I appreciate your feedback--I use an amount similar to that in the video that Michael posted--is that too much of the product?? I haven't tried Hampshire Sheen as a follow up yet--but I am one of the fans of Shellawax--it works beautifully IME. I may try and call you--do I reach out to you at the Walnut Log?

 

[Jeff Hornung]

Jeff, I appreciate your feedback--I use an amount similar to that in the video that Michael posted--is that too much of the product?? I haven't tried Hampshire Sheen as a follow up yet--but I am one of the fans of Shellawax--it works beautifully IME. I may try and call you--do I reach out to you at the Walnut Log?

Yes, my number is on the website or I can PM you through the forum. Always happy to talk turning! And I see a couple issues with that video...mainly he is using a bit more of the Grit than normal because he didn't use a sanding sealer first. If you don't use a sealer, the wood absorbs the oils in the Grit forcing you to use more. If the wood is sealed, you only need a very very thin coat. He also used waaaaay too much Hampshire Sheen than needed. Same deal, a little will go a very long way. Look up Missouri Woodturner on youtube. Larry Randolph does a good job in a recent video he posted using the Grit.

 

[Mike Adams]

...If you don't use a sealer, the wood absorbs the oils in the Grit forcing you to use more. If the wood is sealed, you only need a very very thin coat....

Thanks for that tip

 

[Mike Peace]

I did a video on my YT channel on making an abrasive paste after watching Daniel Villarino's video. Making the stuff can be a good project for a club workshop where the economies of scale make it worth while. For an individual, it may not be worth the effort to make the stuff unless you just like making stuff and have access to free beeswax. I tend to use stuff I made, Acks Sanding Paste and Yorkshire Grit. But I really do prefer the Yorkshire Grit as I think it has an additional pumice besides tripoli that makes it cut better and breaks down even finer. I generally use abrasive paste for smaller items and the inside of bowls I can't get to easily with my Beall buffing system. Like Jeff said,, a little goes a long way.

 

[Greg Norman]

A good source for grit would be a lapidary supply like
https://kingsleynorth.com/lapidary-equipment-supplies/abrasive-media.html
There are many others also.
There is an enormous range of grit size and type available, down to one micron polishing grit.

 

[Tim Tucker]

I have owned several businesses in my working life. So - I admire entrepreneurship. And...Perhaps my perspective is different ...AND....I am not picking on anyone in particular ( just ALL of us... ). HOW is it possible that we willingly spend THOUSANDS on machinery and tooling....but we get all "tight-spinctered" about a small can of polish? I have used both the products mentioned, and appreciate what it takes to manufacture, ship, bring to market - and THEN get out and shake hands, answer phone calls and e-mails, travel to attend events and promote....ad infinitum.
Nope - I am not interested in trying to save a little amount of money in order to "knock-off" a product that someone has worked their .... off to get into the market - and try to make some money. And my time in research - finding good ingredients, and then experimenting...as well as storing excess stuff that I may or may never use....it just seems more expensive...if I make allowance for my space, sanity...and time involved in the process to "save a buck"....
But - I DO understand the "cheapskate" in all of us. "SALE" signs in a woodturning supply ad are my personal love language.

 

[Mike Peace]

I have owned several businesses in my working life. So - I admire entrepreneurship. And...Perhaps my perspective is different ...AND....I am not picking on anyone in particular ( just ALL of us... ). HOW is it possible that we willingly spend THOUSANDS on machinery and tooling....but we get all "tight-spinctered" about a small can of polish? I have used both the products mentioned, and appreciate what it takes to manufacture, ship, bring to market - and THEN get out and shake hands, answer phone calls and e-mails, travel to attend events and promote....ad infinitum.
Nope - I am not interested in trying to save a little amount of money in order to "knock-off" a product that someone has worked their .... off to get into the market - and try to make some money. And my time in research - finding good ingredients, and then experimenting...as well as storing excess stuff that I may or may never use....it just seems more expensive...if I make allowance for my space, sanity...and time involved in the process to "save a buck"....
But - I DO understand the "cheapskate" in all of us. "SALE" signs in a woodturning supply ad are my personal love language.

Some of my friends like making things. Other friends like buying things. I agree with my friends.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Mike - Isn't it great to have choices!?