Trying to remove headstock spindle

[Andy Elliott]

Hello all,
I have a Record Power RPML 300 c mini lathe. I am trying to remove the headstock spindle (I think it's called?). The reason I am doing this is because the machine has some rust on it, and I would like to get rid of it before it eats away at the metal too much, especially on the gears. I'll attach two pictures, both of the spindle on the outside and inside (where a center or chuck would go). I don't see a centering ring or anything else keeping it in place so I think it's ready for a whack to pop it out, however I don't want to go smashing it until I'm as sure as possible that it's actually ready to get pounded out. Thanks in advance for any and all help. So I'm just hoping to discover from you all friendly people on here if it is ready for a hammering out. Thanks again.

 

[Dwight R Rutherford]

I’m not familiar with your specific lathe. I really don’t see enough rust to be concerned about but at the very least, there should be a set screw (grub screw) in the pulley that the belt drives. This should be loosened before you try and tap the shaft out. I’d also check for any collars with set screws.

 

[Richard Coers]

I would like to get rid of it before it eats away at the metal too much, especially on the gears. I'm confused, where are the gears you are talking about? Some lathes have two set screws in the same pulley hole to lock them in place. Striking a blow to anything with bearings is not good practice. A strike can brinell the hardened bearings and cause damage. Steady pressure is the way to go.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The manual listed below may provide some insight as to how your model is designed, the bearings look different then this manual shows.
On your model of lathe both the inboard and outboard bearings look like they are pressed into the housing, once you free the pulley from the shaft by loosening the grub screw you should be able to press the spindle shaft through the inner bore of the bearings. You usually need to slowly work the pulley from the shaft as you work the shaft through the bearings until the entire assembly is able to come apart and out of the housing.

This would be the same process used to install a new drive belt, as you need to partially remove the spindle shaft from the housing to be able to install the new drive belt onto the spindle pulley. Once you do this a couple of times it gets easier to accomplish in a shorter period of time. You might be able to use the threads on the end of the spindle shaft to secure a mechanical means of removing the spindle from the bearings and pulley. You would need a spacer placed over the spindle to provide support against the housing as you tightened a nut onto the threads to then draw the spindle through the bearing bores. A little penetrating oil on all of the bearing and spindle surfaces should make the process go smoothly.

www.free-instruction-manuals.com/pdf/p47135139.pdf

 

[john lucas]

Can't really see enough detail to answer your question. Quite common is a set screw holding the pulley on the spindle. Sometimes the setscrew raises a ring around the point and this prevents the spindle from sliding out of bearings. I use a drill bit the same size as the hole and touch it lightly to the spindle shaft to remove that burr. I'm with the others. I don't see enough rust to worry about. You could spray it with a rust inhibitor like WD-40 and then run the lathe at slow speed and remove most of that rust with steel wool.

 

[Andy Elliott]

Hi, thank you all for your responses! I'll post another pic below of the gears (I hope that's the right technical term- maybe it's pulley- anywho, I hope to learn soon, please bear with me) that have rust and were the main area of rust I was concerned about. I'll try using a clamp to slowly apply pressure. Or pick up a brass rod because I hear if you are going to hammer it out, brass is a good way to go. Have a good day guys thank you. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Those are the belt pulleys, you could easily use a wire brush and clean the rust from the bottom of the grooves, no need to tear the lathe apart. What shape is the drive belt in? Cracks, Splits, Edge Wear? If you don't have a spare belt now would be a good time to check the belt size and get one ordered.

 

[Andy Elliott]

I think just cleaning the rust off the pulley without taking it apart is a great idea. The lathe was in an outdoor building, at least I was able to get it in an attached garage where hopefully there is less humidity and less rust over time. I’ll go at it with a wire brush and some de-rusting agent. I really appreciate the feedback and the link to the manual.

 

[Richard Coers]

There is no rust on those pulleys, that's sawdust in the grooves. A de-rusting agent on that lathe would be a waste of money. Just clean it up with a brass brush and woven abrasive pad and use it.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

Looks like some rust on the shaft to me!

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

The headstock looks a great deal like the one on the Sorby lathe our club has. Their instructions are to drive the spindle out with a wooden dowel and it takes a pretty good lick to do it that way. I think we damaged the bering as it does click now. I think Mike has the best advise for Keeping everything functional.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Sometimes the bearings are rusted in place so some penetrating oil might help. Bearings are cheap and those look old so I think it would be smart to replace them whenever you decide to remove the spindle. If the bearings are tight on the spindle, which is very likely, use a bearing puller or take them to an auto parts shop or machinist to have them removed because it is very important that the spindle not get scuffed when the old bearing is removed or the new one installed.

When removing the spindle from the headstock it is preferable to press it put rather than hammering it out.

 

[john lucas]

If your bearing clicks when it's re inserted it isn't square to the shaft. Probably not fully seated in it's slot. Not saying it isn't damaged but a machinist friend pointed that out to me and I have had on click when it wasn't fully seated in it's place.

 

[Bill Boehme]

A clicking sound is generally a sign that the bearing races have been brinelled which means that it needs to be replaced even if it is new. Having a cocked bearing as John mentioned above is bad news because it means not only is the bearing damaged, but also the machined surface of the spindle if it is a press fit or the machined bore in the headstock casting if that is a press fit. Whichever it is the press fit, it should be relatively light. If it isn't there's probably a bur or something that needs to be cleaned.

Sometimes there will be a wave shim stuck to the old bearing or the bore in the casting. Clean it up and use it with the new bearing.

 

[Marc Vickery]

I am hoping to get direction on the clicking noise I hear on the handwheel side of my powermatic 3520. It increases with speed. Assuming the issue is resolved with bearing replacement, how or who does this kind of work? I live a smaller town and I don’t know anyone servicing machinery here. If I take it somewhere, does the entire lathe need to go in or just the headstock? Seems recommendable to replace both sides and put in a new belt. Any other recommendations? What is a Ballpark cost?
Thanks!

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Very, very unlikely the bearings are rusted, they're packed with oil or grease from the factory. There is a chance they're worn out, if so they'd make various strange noises when running.

Replacing bearings correctly requires either a puller and/or a press. Plus some bushings to make sure the force is applied to the inner or outer race as appropriate (outer race when pressing bearings into a housing, inner race when pressing onto a spindle). Hammers have no place in replacing bearings). If they're any kind of precision bearing (unlikely in wood lathe) you have to know which side of the bearing goes which way.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Marc,

If you can do the work yourself, you will gain an intimate understanding of how your lathe comes apart and goes together and will be able to troubleshoot other issues quickly down the road. Removing and installing the bearings will be the biggest challenge, there are several videos on YouTube that show the typical process in preforming this task. A hydraulic press or Port-a-power can make the job easier with removing and installing the bearings. Hammering on a bearing with a metal hammer to seat the bearing can destroy the bearing, this process requires a little finesse and experience or guidance to avoid making mistakes. When removing the bearing you can possibly create a small burr on the headstock casting, you want to make sure you clean the entire surface of the headstock casting where the bearings reside and remove all foreign materials from the surface and if needed clean the surface with some emery cloth to knock any burrs. A little machine oil or light grease can be applied to the bearing or casting to lube the surface areas that need to slide against each other when installing the new bearings. Depending on the clearance of the bearing and the spindle, some machines require freezing the spindle and warming the bearing to provide clearance when installing a bearing. Heat can be applied to an old bearing to free it from the spindle if it is firmly attached to the spindle, cleaning the spindle prior to disassembly will help in the removal process. Anyone with good mechanical skills can usually provide hands on guidance when preforming these types of tasks, most trades are exposed to these tasks on a routine basis, welders, car mechanics, electricians, millwrights, HVAC, Refrigeration. A case of beer can usually cover the cost of I know a guy that knows a guy that does that kind of work, you can always trade some wood turning service for their time if required. Typical shop labor rates are $50 to $100 an hour depending on where you live. If you can do most of the work yourself and deliver the clean headstock, clean spindle and new bearings to the person it should only take less then hour to press the new bearings into place.

 

[Marc Vickery]

Thanks for the quick reply and insight. I think I’ll look around for someone local, get the replacement parts and see where it goes.

 

[Richard Coers]

I am hoping to get direction on the clicking noise I hear on the handwheel side of my powermatic 3520. It increases with speed. Assuming the issue is resolved with bearing replacement, how or who does this kind of work? I live a smaller town and I don’t know anyone servicing machinery here. If I take it somewhere, does the entire lathe need to go in or just the headstock? Seems recommendable to replace both sides and put in a new belt. Any other recommendations? What is a Ballpark cost?
Thanks!

Google 3520 clicking. It's notorious for that. Usually a loose set screw on a speed sensor wheel I believe. http://www.aawforum.org/community/i...-clicking-sound-from-pm3250b-headstock.12561/

 

[Marc Vickery]

Ohhh cool. Way better than unnecessary headstock makeover.
Thanks!

 

[Mike Johnson]

Here is a quick video that shows the bearing removal and replacement on a Jet lathe which covers the basics you will encounter for most any lathe.
There is a video on YouTube that covers the speed sensor issue, If you look at the parts manual for the lathe it shows the location of the speed sensor
they can be a challenge to get to on some models.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnxUYH3cCQ0

 

[Ken Appelt]

Mike, thanks for the video,,,,soon I want to replace the bearings on my Rockwell,,,,,there is a little roughness,,, perhaps from rust,, or perhaps, just 40 yr old bearings. Fortunately, I have an extra head stock to practice on.

 

[Marc Vickery]

Thanks for the video. It sure made things look easy. I hate to admit a reluctance to break down my lathe. It seems a bit different considering the notes previous that suggest hammering a spindle is not a preferred method and I have uncertainty about getting a puller that would work on a lathe. I think I’ll move toward a professional mechanic who understands machinery.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

The Jet video reinforces my low opinion of Jet. The lathe shown is a cheapo model. You might hope they aren't suggesting using the same crude hammer methods on their higher end lathes.

I Googled on "lathe spindle bearing replacement" and of all things there's a video replacing bearings on a Oneway spindle. Tediously long at over an hour, but you can skip to the pertinent segments where pullers, bushings and a press are used to do the job correctly.

 

[John Torchick]

My father said there was a saying in the USAAF- "Don't force it, use a bigger hammer." Never had to replace bearings on anything and don't relish the idea.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The Jet video reinforces my low opinion of Jet. The lathe shown is a cheapo model. You might hope they aren't suggesting using the same crude hammer methods on their higher end lathes.

I Googled on "lathe spindle bearing replacement" and of all things there's a video replacing bearings on a Oneway spindle. Tediously long at over an hour, but you can skip to the pertinent segments where pullers, bushings and a press are used to do the job correctly.

Doug,

Totally agree, I tried to find a video showing anyone replacing bearings on a Powermatic and could not find a one. I did find a 2-part video where the owner was rebuilding a lathe and shows the complete process until he used a claw hammer and metal tubing to pound the bearings into place. (Yikes) At least the dead blow mallet in the Jet video would be a little less damaging. I usually use a heavy bolt and "long nut" positioned between the headstock and tailstock to press bearings into a headstock. This method uses the long nut (nut welded onto a long tube) with the end of the metal tube placed against the bearing, two wrenches are used to expand the nut bolt assembly and press the bearing squarely into the casting of headstock.

You see the common practice of using a mallet or hammer to tap a bearing into place by alternating strikes of the hammer/mallet on opposite sides of the bearing, this method works for most people but you are creating small dimples in the race and balls of the bearing which over time will reduce the life span of the bearing. Using a press is the least damaging method to install a bearing into a casting on any machine. If there is no restriction on the inner race of the bearing dragging on a shaft/spindle you can tap a bearing into place by lightly striking the outer race of the bearing where in this instance you are not imparting forces onto the bearing internal moving components. You want to use a soft material like a dead blow mallet and wood or plastic dowel against the bearing surface, this method reduces impact damage that metal on metal can cause. You can also use a port-a-power or hydraulic jack placed between the headstock and tailstock to impart pressure against the bearing to press it into place. Use too much force and you could damage the tailstock. If you can remove the tailstock and place it on a hydraulic press this would be the safer method to use on a difficult to install bearing. Finesse is a vital skill when preforming precision mechanical repairs on rotating components, prepping and cleaning the surfaces prior to installing bearings usually solves 95% of the issues.

 

[Marc Vickery]

I sure appreciate the detailed and all encompassing responses folks are delivering to the forum.
I think I am hesitant to go the route of the DIY just because there are tools I don’t have and the finesse required might be outside my range. My learning curves are usually longer than some and then there is the expense of trial and Error. I rebuilt a ford transmission and it ran for another month until the new bearings I put in failed......
But Thanks to all you folks who support this forum with such thought and consideration.

 

[John Torchick]

Check with one of the chain auto parts stores. They rent tools and might have a bearing press ot do it for you. Local machine shop?

 

[Mike Johnson]

I have people ask me why I have no problems with the vehicle I drive every day which has a lot of miles on the odometer.
I tell them I do all of the maintenance on the vehicle and no-one gets close enough to mess with anything.
You never know who is going to be doing the repair work when you take it to a shop or an oil change facility.
When you do the work yourself on your own equipment you treat it with respect knowing you paid good money for it.

Doing a bearing changeout on a wood lathe would be a worthwhile educational demonstration to do at a wood turning club meeting.

 

[Dean Center]

Marc, I replaced the bearings on a small Jet lathe with little more experience than you and everything came out OK. Probably not totally luck--the bearings are small and not hard to get in and out on the small lathe. The Powermatic is a different story, with 3 bearing and possibly preload, which is something I've learned about on this forum, but don't know enough about to feel competent to do the job myself.

On the other hand, see above, where Richeard mentions the common click issue on 3520 lathes. You don't have to do anything requiring great knowledge or experience to fix those issues, you just have to be patient, persistent, get light into a tight spot, and have very nimble fingers.

 

[Greg Norman]

Andy you can contact Record and get a free manual emailed to you. They also have info about making repairs.
https://www.recordpower.co.uk/support/page/category/cat/woodturning

 

[Marc Vickery]

Thanks everyone for the support. I have replaced the bearings successfully on the Powermatic 3520 B. No thanks to Powermatic however. I purchased the bearings online using the website and the manual for part numbers. When I discovered the bearings were sold as one of two and of course I only bought one, I was in a rush to get the second one ASAP since I now had my spindle laying on the table. Called the local bearing supply place. SURE we have that bearing! Went there and paid $25 dollars for the two bearings I needed and now have to see if Powermatic will let me return the one bearing for which I paid $65. And shipping??? If anyone decides to change their bearings don’t go through the manufacturer.

 

[Bruce Perry]

Some years ago our clubs 2004 3520A developed a rather noisy rattle, prompting folk wanting to replace it. (Front Range Woodturners, in Denver)

A quick look, a dent found in the fan housing, five minutes to remove said, a big hammer (and a pinewood punch) the dent demolished and another two minutes for reassembly and the lathe is still running quietly, in the hands of a new owner. The Club is running the 3520 C now, I only hope it serves as long and as well.

Try to remember that when something that was working fine develops "personality", it is usually better to hunt it down and fix it right away.

Off the shelf parts are almost always much cheaper, the (french made) contacter in the 3520 A is $75 + from Powermatic, about ten from local industrial supply.