Waterproofing wood?

[John Torchick]

I have what is called a skeleton reel seat for a fly rod. This is basically a frame without the wood insert. I'm going to make a insert for the reel seat. No problem turning it- simple round piece with a hole drilled through the center. What do you folks recommend to make it waterproof? Thanks.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Just curious, is this bit on display? Why wood versus aluminum or corian which are easily turned?

 

[Richard Coers]

Vacuum resin impregnation. That is the best solution as the wood is filled at a cellular level. Any coating like epoxy is a surface treatment and is susceptible to cracking with seasonal wood movement.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

If this is to be used make it out of rose wood and don't bother to put a finish on it.
About 25 years ago I replaced a Bakelite handle on a pan with Brazilian rose wood and it is still going strong and holding up better than the original.

 

[John Torchick]

Just curious, is this bit on display? Why wood versus aluminum or corian which are easily turned?

Aluminum would not be conducive to a custom rod. Corian is pretty much "plain vanilla" for this application but good ideas, Dennis. Wood is pretty much the standard but browsing through the Woodcraft website, a multi-color pen blank would work. Tried to download a photo of the skeleton seat but I can't get it to download from my Android to the laptop. Never had this trouble before. Murphy's Law rides again!

 

[Dean Center]

Stabilized wood is waterproof. You could start with a stabilized blank or make one yourself, as Richard suggests.

My go to finish for inserts was always CA, which is waterproof, but, as you know, it has that plastic look to it. Birchwood Casey gun stock finish can produce an excellent, weather resistant finish, but requires many, many coats and is kinda pricey. One question I've always wondered about is "With non-stabilized wood, what about the ends of the wood?" Probably it's OK as it's covered in epoxy after installation. Some tropical woods are probably adequately waterproof as they are, including the rosewood already mentioned, plus cocobolo or African blackwood, or other dense and/or oily wood. All of which cost more than the Cheapskate Rod Builder Guild members are willing to pay.

How come the question comes up now, when you've done this many times in the past?

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Aluminum would not be conducive to a custom rod. Corian is pretty much "plain vanilla" for this application but good ideas, Dennis. Wood is pretty much the standard but browsing through the Woodcraft website, a multi-color pen blank would work. Tried to download a photo of the skeleton seat but I can't get it to download from my Android to the laptop. Never had this trouble before. Murphy's Law rides again!

I know nothing about flyrod reels. I assumed that you were making a repair.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

I don't typically get my rod wet enough for long enough at the reel end that I've ever particularly worried about it. Cocobolo makes a lovely seat. Resin-impregnated wood would certainly be the safest choice. As I recall (it's been a while) my last rod I used thinned out epoxy.

As to why wood, it's pretty of course! And fly fisherpeople tend to be extremely traditionalist and somewhat obsessive. I'm sure a trout would not like the smell of Corian ;-) My saltwater rods use metal reel seats, titanium, I think. Stripers aren't as fussy as trout.

 

[John Torchick]

Dean-o, howdy! This is the first made-from-scratch insert. Haven't built a rod in almost 8 years so it's almost like starting over. All others were stabilized wood from various and sundry suppliers. Don't have any way to stabilize unless I get the liquid stuff from WC. Tru-Oil is good as I have used it on a couple of gunstocks I have made. Grandson's will have a maple insert.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

including the rosewood already mentioned, plus cocobolo

I do believe that Cocobolo is a rosewood

 

[Greg Norman]

I do believe that Cocobolo is a rosewood

Dalbergia retusa Is the most common “Cocobolo” and is a rosewood.

 

[Dean Center]

John, I've got a dozen finished seats in a box in the basement. Some of them are inletted for specific hardware, some are sticks that could be inletted to specs. At least a couple are 'tiger stripe' maple, if I'm remembering correctly. Which skeleton are you using?

 

[John Torchick]

Dean, I have another skeleton seat, have to see where I bought it. Grandson's is WIP. Nice piece of maple. Tried to download a photo of his seat and insert but couldn't get it to download from my Android to the laptop. If push came to shove, I could take the dimensions for you.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

Stabilized wood is waterproof. You could start with a stabilized blank or make one yourself, as Richard suggests.

My go to finish for inserts was always CA, which is waterproof, but, as you know, it has that plastic look to it. Birchwood Casey gun stock finish can produce an excellent, weather resistant finish, but requires many, many coats and is kinda pricey. One question I've always wondered about is "With non-stabilized wood, what about the ends of the wood?" Probably it's OK as it's covered in epoxy after installation. Some tropical woods are probably adequately waterproof as they are, including the rosewood already mentioned, plus cocobolo or African blackwood, or other dense and/or oily wood. All of which cost more than the Cheapskate Rod Builder Guild members are willing to pay.

How come the question comes up now, when you've done this many times in the past?

Stabilized wood is Not waterproof. The stabilizing resin fills the voids in the wood with resin. The wood is still there. It is water resistant but will absorb water. Some say it is dimensionally stabile , but it is misleading to tell people is is waterproof.

 

[Michael Stein]

I use MDF blocks to diamond lap on. I also use water stones to sharpen. MDF and water do not mix at all. I soak the blocks in Watco for a week and let them dry for at least a month before I prepare them for use. After this treatment you can soak them overnight in water and nothing happens. Just dry them off and you are good to go. The oil treatment also makes the blocks more durable. You might give this method a try. I have no idea if it will work in your application but I can not think of any reason why it will not.

 

[Dean Center]

Glenn is correct that there is still wood in a stabilized blank. Perhaps I should have been more careful and said "finished stabilized blanks are considered highly water resistant by rod builders." The point is that for this application, they work very well.

John, the tiger stripe maple seems to have a Tru-oil finish and so is satin at this point. More applications and buffing could make it gloss, I would assume. It's a little large at 11/16" diameter, but could be turned smaller if needed. Total length is 4 1/4+", with the tenon 1 1/4". (I like just a bit more pretty wood length than the manufacturers provide with their sets, but this one is real long and I probably planned to shorten it to fit whatever seat I was going to put it on)

Otherwise, I've got
several 'carragana' which looks like reddish brown zebra wood
several 'cedar' which is actually Rocky Mountain Juniper and looks a lot like Eastern Red Cedar, though they're not very red anymore
a couple Russian olive
several box elder that are still pink striped, but not burls
and one lilac, which was gorgeous and lilac colored when first turned, but is now an attractive light brown

Some have CA shiny finish and some have satin tru-oil finish and some are unfinished. Some are turned to specs for commercial seats (BUL5 or Alps B101)

Let me know if any strike your fancy

 

[John Torchick]

Dean, thanks and will be in touch. I'll check the skeleton seat and see what brand or take dimensions and go from there. Have a nice 4 piece, 9 ft., 5 wt. blank to finish.