Fractal Burning Advice

[Don C Davis]

I have seen a couple of 'fractally burnt bowls' that I really like-they have treelike images burnt into them, I just wanted to ask you folks if you have any advice/info on which fractal burning (lictography???) kit to go with and any other advice,

Thanks for any info/advice

 

[GRJensen]

AAW frowns on Lichtenberg fractal burning ... here's their official policy:
It is the policy of the American Association of Woodturners (AAW) that the process known as Fractal Burning is prohibited from being used in any AAW-sponsored events, including regional and national symposia, and that AAW-chartered chapters are strongly urged to refrain from demonstrating or featuring the process in chapter events. Further, the process of Fractal Burning shall not be featured in any written or online AAW publication, except for within articles that warn against its use. AAW publications will not accept advertisements for any products or supplies directly related to the process.

 

[hockenbery]

Don’t do it. Too many people have died trying.

 

[Don C Davis]

Gee whiz guys, I had no idea I could kill myself doing this--GRJensen that policy is informative on it's own!

 

[john lucas]

Yes don't do it. There have been too many deaths already.

 

[GRJensen]

Gee whiz guys, I had no idea I could kill myself doing this--GRJensen that policy is informative on it's own!

Do a search in this forum for 'fractal burning' ... you'll turn up a boat-load of info including details of the dangers and many of the deaths.

 

[Curt Fuller]

On the other hand, check out this piece done by Michael Gibson. His is a safe way of achieving the tree like images you're after.
https://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?media/ersatz.14950/

 

[Gary Beasley]

Pyrography? Doesnt say how he did it.

 

[john lucas]

lots of patience. Mike is good with Pyro.

 

[Gary Beasley]

Impressive work, its not easy making something look fractal by hand.

 

[john lucas]

Yea but at least younwill.still be alive to enjoy it when your done.

 

[John Torchick]

Don't do it.

 

[Perry Hilbert]

The major problem is the jury rigged apparatus that most throw together to do it. Imagine how many of us would be killed if we all built our own automobiles from stuff just thrown together. Electricity is as unforgiving as speed, probably more so. Heck, I understand that people get killed just turning wood on a simple uncomplicated lathe.. Unless you have a good deal of electrical knowledge dealing with safety switches and high voltages, etc, AND are willing to build a cabinet with double insulated safety features, I'd stay steer far, far away from that.

 

[Richard Coers]

I don't understand the title of this story, because the body of the article says 17 people have died while using fractal burning. As to Perry's comparison of death using a lathe, I read all the time about people dying in their sleep. That doesn't build any more confidence for me to use a dangerous amount of electrical energy to decorate wood.

 

[Perry Hilbert]

I don't understand the title of this story, because the body of the article says 17 people have died while using fractal burning. As to Perry's comparison of death using a lathe, I read all the time about people dying in their sleep. That doesn't build any more confidence for me to use a dangerous amount of electrical energy to decorate wood.

Not trying to build confidence to do something as dangerous as fractal burning. Trying to do the opposite. Trying to make folks understand that there is far more to it than the You tube videos consider. I remember when my Dad made a gizmo our of a wire and two nails to "electrocute" hot dogs. Thing heated them up just fine, but if you were just a bit too slow at pulling the plug, the hot dogs exploded in a scalding vapor in every possible direction.. Still have a tiny scar 60 years later. ..

 

[Mike Zip Hamilton]

now you have done it, Perry. You will be responsible for the next u-tube video featuring an exploding hot dog!

 

[John Torchick]

We had one of those hot dog cookers. Won't work with the lid open. Unplug it before taking out the hot dogs.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

This thread was reported, as a violation of the AAW rules. Well, I feel like the good samaritan, we have saved a fellow turner from dying electrocuted. One of the reasons we are here is to educate, I feel we have educated. Unless I hear something different, the thread stays. I will never use the fractal on any of my pieces, I do not have a death wish, but mainly I do think something you can hardly control the outcome is art. Then again, maybe is an Andy Warhol type of thing. @Bill Boehme

 

[GRJensen]

I have already cheated death twice ... you know what they say about third times!

 

[Arthur Crozier]

Thank you both for your comments. I agree 100% with both of you. If you don’t know how to do something safely, don’t do it! At one point in my career I was a component level technician and I worked with 50000 volt systems. It terrifies me every time I see a YouTube video where people tell you how to make something dangerous and never include safety precautions. Tools, electricity, machinery, chemicals, and a host of other things can kill you! I promote safety and enhancing skills and sharing knowledge through education and learning from others who have actual experience. That is why I took a course from a well known professional wood turner a while back. I tried turning 40 years ago and had a catch that left a mark. Back then there were no videos or teachers for me. I learned the hard way, and I never picked up a chisel again until I discovered the right way to do it a few years ago. This applies to Lichtenberg pyrography. I believe that with knowledge of electricity and proper safety precautions it could be done safely, but if you do not have both, stick to what you know. Wood is filled with its own spectacular beauty without risking your life trying something new that can be as deadly as electricity.

FYI, Emiliano, my wife is an artist who does everything from reality to abstract. There is a technique called pours where you literally pour paint on a canvas and let it flow with a limited amount of control. I always liked “reality” paintings but I grew a real appreciation for these abstracts. Lichtenberg pyrography has about the same level of control.

 

[Perry Hilbert]

We had one of those hot dog cookers. Won't work with the lid open. Unplug it before taking out the hot dogs.

My dad made his back in the mid 1950's, from an idea in a Popular science or one of those magazines. No safety cover, no switches, a block of wood two nails and an electric cord. Of course there are still people who don't understand that you should not have a reading lamp on the edge of the tub. Don't stick a knife in the toaster, etc. Certain things are not to be put in the microwave, and so on.

 

[John Torchick]

This is something that really concerns me. I spent most of my career working in aerospace, computers, and electronics and my college majors were radar and microwave systems. Because people were/are dying doing Lichtenberg pyrography with high voltage I created a YouTube video on how to do it “safer”. I would never guarantee that my method is full proof (I am sure someone could do something unsafe and put themselves in harms way) but it is a much safer method than most of what I have seen on YouTube. I shutter every time I see people holding the probes without insulated rubber gloves and they often have no safety switches or voltage controls.
If you do not understand the risks or technology do not do this! The patterns may be pretty but you don’t want them to literally be “drop dead gorgeous”.
My YouTube video is titled “Lichtenberg Pyrography Safety”. I didn’t put the link in because I thought it might violate the AAW policy so you will have to search for it yourself. If those in the know think the video has benefit feel free to put in the link.
I am not promoting this method but I know there are people who watch YouTube videos on how to create the high voltage systems, but most of these videos never talk safety. My focus is strictly on safety.
My tag line on my YouTube videos is “Remember, have fun, be safe, and create a remarkable treasure.” I emphasize BE SAFE when it comes to this technique!

I would never put anything like you describe due to the liability involved. My son is an ME. I mentioned about getting a PE certification. He said No! If you sign off on a project or product, guess who is liable for damages, etc.

 

[hockenbery]

This is something that really concerns me. I spent most of my career working in aerospace, computers, and electronics and my college majors were radar and microwave systems. Because people were/are dying doing Lichtenberg pyrography with high voltage I created a YouTube video on how to do it “safer”. I would never guarantee that my method is full proof (I am sure someone could do something unsafe and put themselves in harms way)

your last sentence indicates you know that you are going to get someone killed!

I suggest you remove the video and save lives.

you obviously know how dangerous this stuff is.
Do you believe a video provides the lifetime of learning you have?

 

[Glenn Lefley]

This is something that really concerns me. I spent most of my career working in aerospace, computers, and electronics and my college majors were radar and microwave systems. Because people were/are dying doing Lichtenberg pyrography with high voltage I created a YouTube video on how to do it “safer”. I would never guarantee that my method is full proof (I am sure someone could do something unsafe and put themselves in harms way) but it is a much safer method than most of what I have seen on YouTube. I shutter every time I see people holding the probes without insulated rubber gloves and they often have no safety switches or voltage controls.
If you do not understand the risks or technology do not do this! The patterns may be pretty but you don’t want them to literally be “drop dead gorgeous”.
My YouTube video is titled “Lichtenberg Pyrography Safety”. I didn’t put the link in because I thought it might violate the AAW policy so you will have to search for it yourself. If those in the know think the video has benefit feel free to put in the link.
I am not promoting this method but I know there are people who watch YouTube videos on how to create the high voltage systems, but most of these videos never talk safety. My focus is strictly on safety.
My tag line on my YouTube videos is “Remember, have fun, be safe, and create a remarkable treasure.” I emphasize BE SAFE when it comes to this technique!

I agree , if you feel it’s that unsafe, which it is. Why would you create a safer video to do I thing that can kill you. Seems like you are opening yourself for a huge lawsuit from a spouse who significant other dies from using your Safer way to do a really dangerous thing.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

I would never put anything like you describe due to the liability involved. My son is an ME. I mentioned about getting a PE certification. He said No! If you sign off on a project or product, guess who is liable for damages, etc.

He might want to rethink that. To get a teaching position at most university’s etc they require teacher to be a pe. There are more advantages to being a pe than just signing off on projects. He could still work as a me but have a lot more opportunities open to him in the future.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

This thread was reported, as a violation of the AAW rules. Well, I feel like the good samaritan, we have saved a fellow turner from dying electrocuted. One of the reasons we are here is to educate, I feel we have educated. Unless I hear something different, the thread stays. I will never use the fractal on any of my pieces, I do not have a death wish, but mainly I do think something you can hardly control the outcome is art. Then again, maybe is an Andy Warhol type of thing. @Bill Boehme

I think this is really border line. We now have a sorta link to @ safer way to do this burning in this thread now!

 

[John Torchick]

He might want to rethink that. To get a teaching position at most university’s etc they require teacher to be a pe. There are more advantages to being a pe than just signing off on projects. He could still work as a me but have a lot more opportunities open to him in the future.

He has no desire to teach or get PE certification but, like his grandfather, is more comfortable in the engineering lab, machine shop or on the plant floor. He is the senior project engineer at age 38. Math kept me from an ME degree.

 

[Perry Hilbert]

I think this is really border line. We now have a sorta link to @ safer way to do this burning in this thread now!

As a person who has a great deal of respect for electricity, (woke up laying on the floor after serving as a racecourse for electrons) It is something, I do not mess with except for the most mundane things, like replacing a light switch. Then when I got to college, I had a summer job in the machine shop at Hershey Foods. Reported for 2nd shift and found an ambulance, police, "white hats" and the plant manager there huddled around a pile of stink that was covered with a sheet. Seems one of the electricians thought he could change a high voltage switch without disconnecting the power. I figure he never had the time to realize what he had done wrong. My job that shift became "air out the shop" Opening windows, watching weather, turning fans on and off. For some reason the smell didn't bother me that night. But remembering it, sure made me sick a few times. For decades, I would not do anything electrical more than change batteries in a flash light. Eventually, I started some automotive electrical stuff and even some 120 volt items. Always with the power off, always with the voltage meter double checking the power was indeed off. Won't go over 120 volts. Not for all the tea in China. I think rather fool proof equipment can be constructed. (Given the absence of a more clever fool) I and most people here are not mentally/educationally equipped to undertake such a task.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Perry, thanks for this message. I am installing a mini-split in my shop. The unit is on order and is coming in about 10 days. I made arrangements with a local electrician who moonlights, to come and just make the electrical connection at both ends (230 V) and install a fused cut off switch box behind the unit. I had been second-guessing myself, saying it really is very simple to run the line and put in the breaker. Your message put that thought to rest. I am now happy to pay him to make the final connection.

 

[GRJensen]

I was a licensed electrician (worked for a contractor back in my college years). That license expired many years ago. If it is anything more complicated than replacing a bad receptacle, I call a friend who is a currently licensed journeyman electrician ... that way, I know everything is up to code. I could probably muddle my way through, but why take the chance.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

The posting pointing people to an unsafe practice has been removed. I have consulted the AAW, I do not want to delete everything here as I said before. Fractal kills, there is no safer way of doing it. The AAW has made it clear, no fractal pieces are allowed nor do they want any AAW club sponsoring it or doing it. I agree. Next fractal posting will be closed to further posting immediately after explaining why. Thread is close for now. @Bill Boehme @hockenbery

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

The AAW has a page with information about fractal, whenever fractal comes up in the future I will be pointing people to this page:
https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturn...fety-Fractal-Burning-Lichtenburg-Burning.aspx