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Monkey Pod.....@#$%^&* MONKEY POD!!!

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O.K....so I went to FL and bought a lot of wood.
1. Camphor. Love the look - but cannot turn it because my lathe is in the basement of my house. The stench is too strong for the Mrs. to tolerate.

2. Monkey Pod - beautiful but darn near impossible for me to turn well. Tear out is amazingly bad. And it "furs up" when it tears out. Have tried every type of cut, every tool in my arsenal. UNBELIEVABLE P.I.A. to work with for me. And the grain density variation is also incredible. Resorted to sanding to attempt to clean up what I would normally shear scrape, or light NRS scrape ( BOTH of those methods created hellacious tear out ...) And it sands so uneven that it ripples the surface of the wood - with the growth rings - lower density - divot.....light sanding pressure, lather mounted, lowest speed on lathe, and tried random orbit sander as well as angle drill. 2" sanding disks with soft pad ...and 5" Hannes Tool flexible backing pad.....

Completely out of ideas, and almost ready to have a very expensive bonfire......

Can anyone who has worked with this specific wood offer any magic or miracle suggestions? PLEASE?
 
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If the wood is nice then I might consider soaking a rough turning in a wood hardener. Either 1# shellac or a commercial product like PC Products PC-Petrifier.

How much camphor did you get? Maybe we could trade for something so I can see how nice it makes my shop smell.
 

hockenbery

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Camphor is one of my favorite woods. I do appreciate that some people cannot handle it’s wonderful smell.
it turns wonderfully, carves easily and is relatively stable.

Regarding the monkey pod have only tuned a a few pieces from it.
All the softer woods or wood with soft parts including spalted wood do best for me when I cut them with a sharp tool taking light cuts. People here like to let it spalt which makes it softer as well as prettier.

heavy deep roughing cut will tear most woods as the larger deep shavings are attacked to to a lot of wood fibers as they are being cut and some of those stretch and tear. Shallow cuts tear less or not at all.

scraping will not cut the fibers cleanly in soft wood so they tear. Shear scraping these wood to improve the gouge surface will make the surface worse.

with an Ellsworth ground gouge a pull cut will yield a better surface than a push cut. The wing doing the pull cut has a 30-25 bevel angle which is sharper than the 45 degree bevel angle used in the slicing push cut.

Some tricks that stiffen softer woods to make them cut better.
Wetting with water will swell the fibers making them tighter so the cut cleanly
Thin schellac (or lacquer) will stiffen the fibers so they cut rather than tear.
Thin CA will stiffen the fibers but will affect finishing.
Then there are other wood hardners like polyall 2000 - the wood has to be really special for me to go through the mess and enspense.
 
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Karl - I am near Brevard NC. not sure how much Camphor is in the stack - I brought back a 6'x12' trailer. Loaded. Full...Large pieces. PM me your phone number if you want to arrange getting this.

Al ... THIS>>>>> "the wood has to be really special for me to go through the mess and exspense." is the summation of exactly the conclusion I have come to about Monkey Pod. Beautiful misery. Much like a lady in my past....:rolleyes:;):D
 

hockenbery

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One after thought. Once you create a furred surface it is hard to get rid of it.
You have to cut a clean spot and work slowly into the furred area. Always working from clean surface to rough surface. The clean surface makes a place for the bevel to float as you cut into the rough surface.
As you cut into the rough surface the bevel will begin to bounce over the furry area so you have to stop because the bounce makes it worse. Back up and put the bevel on the clean surface and cut slowly into the rough surface.
Eventually with patience and perseverance you will get a clean surface.

My first choice for cleaning the surface is and Ellsworth ground gouge pull cut
2nd choice a 40/40 gouge push cut.
 
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Karl - I am near Brevard NC. not sure how much Camphor is in the stack - I brought back a 6'x12' trailer. Loaded. Full...Large pieces. PM me your phone number if you want to arrange getting this.

De...THIS>>>>> the wood has to be really special for me to go through the mess and exspense." is the summation of exactly the conclusion I have come to about Monkey Pod. Beautiful misery. Much like a lady in my past....:rolleyes:;):D

Penrose NC is a beautiful area. I’d love to drop by if I lived on the East side of TN instead of the West. I think USPS Flat rate boxes are about the best way to trade wood due to weight. Currently I am cutting up a persimmon tree, but I also have cherry, walnut and spalted maple turning blocks to name a few.

Btw, keep your dust collector going and wear a mask when working with the Monkey Pod. This wood can cause an allergic reaction in some people.
 
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Penrose NC is a beautiful area. I’d love to drop by if I lived on the East side of TN instead of the West. I think USPS Flat rate boxes are about the best way to trade wood due to weight. Currently I am cutting up a persimmon tree, but I also have cherry, walnut and spalted maple turning blocks to name a few.

Btw, keep your dust collector going and wear a mask when working with the Monkey Pod. This wood can cause an allergic reaction in some people.

These pieces are 18" to 24" wide, 32"- 36" long and approx. 7" - 8" thick. I have a feeling that your local mailman would hate you for that...:D. What size would you want? I do have a large band saw.
 
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One after thought. Once you create a furred surface it is hard to get rid of it.
You have to cut a clean spot and work slowly into the furred area. Always working from clean surface to rough surface. The clean surface makes a place for the bevel to float as you cut into the rough surface.
As you cut into the rough surface the bevel will begin to bounce over the furry area so you have to stop because the bounce makes it worse. Back up and put the bevel on the clean surface and cut slowly into the rough surface.
Eventually with patience and perseverance you will get a clean surface.

My first choice for cleaning the surface is and Ellsworth ground gouge pull cut
2nd choice a 40/40 gouge push cut.

Thank you Al. Good advice - I am sure. I will saturate a piece with 50% lacquer/50% lacquer thinner. That has worked well for me on very spalted Sycamore....And I have some made up - so will use it.
Thanks again for the help!
 
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These pieces are 18" to 24" wide, 32"- 36" long and approx. 7" - 8" thick. I have a feeling that your local mailman would hate you for that...:D. What size would you want? I do have a large band saw.

That’s some big chunks. Too bad you don’t have a separate shop for turning this wood, or some way to exhaust the fumes outside. One of the cheapest shipping options (due to weight of wood) is USPS Flat Rate Priority boxes. A 12x12x5.5 lg flat rate box cost $21.10 to ship. We can make a swap if I have something that you might like in return. I’ll send a PM.
 

Emiliano Achaval

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Unless the wood is spalted or punky, I can guarantee you it is you and not the wood. I have turned hundreds of Monkeypod bowls. Probably one of the easiest woods to turn. So easy that I use Monkepod for a lot of my demos, it makes me look good. Push cut works best. I can show you some pictures of bowls that I just did, I can probably start sanding with 150 grit. Since I do the bottom with the bottom bowl gouge, I can start at 180 or 220. Slow the rate of cut, speed up the lathe, sharpen your tool. Then sharpen your tool again. Did I mention to sharpen your tool?
 

Emiliano Achaval

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Penrose NC is a beautiful area. I’d love to drop by if I lived on the East side of TN instead of the West. I think USPS Flat rate boxes are about the best way to trade wood due to weight. Currently I am cutting up a persimmon tree, but I also have cherry, walnut and spalted maple turning blocks to name a few.

Btw, keep your dust collector going and wear a mask when working with the Monkey Pod. This wood can cause an allergic reaction in some people.
Never heard of Monkey Pod causing allergies, I think that you are thinking of Ear Pod, very similar, and very toxic to a lot of people. Monkeypod is very, very common in Hawaii. Too common, I only use it for lessons and or demos, everything made in the Philipines is Monkepod, they sell decent bowls at target and Walmart for $15, same size out of Koa I charge $400
 
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Unless the wood is spalted or punky, I can guarantee you it is you and not the wood. I have turned hundreds of Monkeypod bowls. Probably one of the easiest woods to turn. So easy that I use Monkepod for a lot of my demos, it makes me look good. Push cut works best. I can show you some pictures of bowls that I just did, I can probably start sanding with 150 grit. Since I do the bottom with the bottom bowl gouge, I can start at 180 or 220. Slow the rate of cut, speed up the lathe, sharpen your tool. Then sharpen your tool again. Did I mention to sharpen your tool?

So...why it is that I can turn cherry, ash, maple, oak, etc...and NONE of the problem I am having with this wood? I commonly start my sanding @ 120-180 depending on the object. Sharp tools? NO question. Do you find a particular grind better than others on MP? And....how can I KNOW that it is actually Monkey Pod - and not something else? ( trying to eliminate all of the possibilities.....)
 
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Never heard of Monkey Pod causing allergies, I think that you are thinking of Ear Pod, very similar, and very toxic to a lot of people. Monkeypod is very, very common in Hawaii. Too common, I only use it for lessons and or demos, everything made in the Philipines is Monkepod, they sell decent bowls at target and Walmart for $15, same size out of Koa I charge $400

Never worked with myself, but a couple of turners in another forum posted about reactions with Monkeypod. Odd what wood causes an allergic reaction for some people can vary so much. Maybe the wood was identified wrong like you said.
 

Emiliano Achaval

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So...why it is that I can turn cherry, ash, maple, oak, etc...and NONE of the problem I am having with this wood? I commonly start my sanding @ 120-180 depending on the object. Sharp tools? NO question. Do you find a particular grind better than others on MP? And....how can I KNOW that it is actually Monkey Pod - and not something else? ( trying to eliminate all of the possibilities.....)
I was trying to see your work. I can usually tell at what level someone is by seeing their photo albums. You have yet to post something here so it is hard to see where you are at. Monkeypod is very easy to identify by the large pores. Posting a picture of how badly torn it is and to see if indeed you got monkeypod would help.
 
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I was trying to see your work. I can usually tell at what level someone is by seeing their photo albums. You have yet to post something here so it is hard to see where you are at. Monkeypod is very easy to identify by the large pores. Posting a picture of how badly torn it is and to see if indeed you got monkeypod would help.

Ahhh...I had not even posted any pictures. Will do that today Emiliano. Thanks
 
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Unless the wood is spalted or punky, I can guarantee you it is you and not the wood. I have turned hundreds of Monkeypod bowls. Probably one of the easiest woods to turn. So easy that I use Monkepod for a lot of my demos, it makes me look good. Push cut works best. I can show you some pictures of bowls that I just did, I can probably start sanding with 150 grit. Since I do the bottom with the bottom bowl gouge, I can start at 180 or 220. Slow the rate of cut, speed up the lathe, sharpen your tool. Then sharpen your tool again. Did I mention to sharpen your tool?

Is it possible that what Tim is working with is not actually Monkeypod? I have to confess, in my ignorance I have confused monkeypod and mango--two very different woods. Maybe post a picture of the wood.
Is it possible that Monkeypod grown in Florida is different in its properties than the Monkeypod grown in Hawaii? Other woods turn out differently if they are wild or horticultural varieties, or grown in drier vs. wetter locations.
Is it possible that the wood Tim has is spalted or punky, and that accounts for his different experience?
 

hockenbery

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@Tim Tucker You can post photos into a post

9BBB3B7E-2F5A-4A96-AE5A-EB6627DE33F7.jpeg

you have some nice looking pieces in the gallery.

The rosewood and eucalyptus are quite hard. The hard woods will let you get away with inconsistencies in tool usage that the soft woods will not tolerate. They also scrape nicely.

what tools are you using? A scraper would cause the tear tearout.
Using a gouge with the handle perpendicular to the ways would cause the tearout
Cutting foot to rim with a gouge not riding the bevel would cause the tearout.
Too deep a cut would cause the tearout.


C74F111B-4DDD-4F39-8037-320270FEF54E.jpeg



0617D0D3-773E-4DE0-8BAE-A1D55418E261.jpeg
 
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Tim, the methaphor uphill/downhill makes better sense when related to spindle turning.
Whenever you approach side grain work like a bowl, you want (longer) fibres behind the ones you are cutting to avoid tearout.
 
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hockenbery

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But...would that direction be "cutting uphill"? I will really admit to confusion. I am a married man.:D
It’s Al not Ed( my brother)

the hill top is the bottom of the bowl. I will post a link to a video where I show the down hill on a spindle and how it relates to a bowl.
 
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Tim, the methaphor uphill/downhill makes better sense when related to spindle turning.
Whenever you approach side grain work like a bowl, you want (longer) fibres behind the ones you are cutting to avoid tearout.
Thanks Lars. Not sure I am visualizing that....except that if cutting from base to rim - then, better fiber support? Interesting that it seems to really matter with this wood, but I have not had this issue with anything else I have turned. Why? Is it maybe...THIS piece of wood, i.e. - punky but with no visual distinguishing evidence? The spalted Sycamore I turned was very soft - and - after rough turning - I submerged it for 3 weeks in 50/50 lacquer and lacquer thinner. Turned like silk after that. Perhaps that is what should have ben done with this wood.?
 

hockenbery

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Uphill downhill are confusing.
what you want to do is cross cut going narrow to wider
This puts a longer fiber behind the one you are cutting so that one you are cutting is supported and cannot bend over.

You can cut the wrong way without tearout on many woods. It will not be nearly as clean a cut.
Many people turn natural edge bowls the wrong way to ensure keeping the bark.


in this demo clip I show how to turner a cylinder with the sideground gouge and show how it relates to turning a bowl.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I05IYkb06Jc
 
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Bill Boehme

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Just uploaded 24 pictures. Just examples of what I have learned thus far.

And, unfortunately, I had to delete 20 of your 24 images because the gallery is only for displaying completed works. As Al said, post those images in your posts (but, please not 24 images when three or four would be more than sufficient).

In case you haven't read the gallery rules recently, you can find a link on the main index page.

rules.jpg
 

Emiliano Achaval

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Mistery solved. Denser wood would be more forgiving of technique, like the Eucalyptus and Rosewood. Cutting Monkeypod against the grain would cause what you are showing. Have you joined a club yet? Some classes with a mentor would have avoided a lot of “confusion” and frustration. Teaching you how to cut in the right direction would be lesson number one, before you even turn on the lathe. If you think that’s bad tearout, try cutting Koa in the wrong direction, LOL
 
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Emiliano - thanks...but I had a very accomplished turner here - he is commercially successful, and a presenter.....And he experienced the same thing - the end grain tear out. after attempting to cut in both directions, as did I. SO - I really think that this piece may be even softer...because it may be spalting - tho I cant see any discoloration. I can dig out the growth rings with my thumbnail however....will chuck this one in the fire pit and move on. Thanks again for the input everyone!
 
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That picture helps me - Thanks Emiliano! With the piece I have, the difference in end grain - vs- side grain is...hard to believe. The 2 pictures of mine that are in Al's post above show what I mean. It is just....unbelievable how nice and clean I could cut the side grain - yet the end grain looks like 40 miles of bad gravel road:D....I do think it was going punky as well.
 
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