is unusual wood that important?

[Charlie Knighton]

i was looking at the gallery and was struck by the thought (i was sitting down, so the thought was safe) that unusuall good visual wood overrides good form

i liked ByGeorge's sugar maple vase and the form is excellant but Gary Ljostad black pasha piece has excellant form also but the wood makes the piece stand out and be remembered

i was looking at T Mitchell pieces at a gallery in virginia and was struck by how plain his wood choice was but how unusual and good form he had

i am not sure where i want this to go, but as a inexperienced turner seems to me a great piece of wood may carry an inexperienced turner's learning projects



anybody got any thoughts??

 

[Brodie Brickey]

I think when we're a beginner, I think of myself as an advanced beginner, we tend to seek out the exotic woods. We spend a lot of money on the fancy woods instead of focusing on getting the technique & form down.

My first year turning I spent a lot of money on fancy woods. Now I spend more money on chainsaw maintenance, tools, sandpaper, and safety equipment.

I think that form will win out over the fancy wood ultimately. When another turner looks at your work, they will see the joins in your segments, or the problems in your form and finish. When your significant other looks at your work, she sees the beauty of the wood whether the form is perfect in your eyes or not.

We turn because we enjoy it and although we need to practice, there are times when we need to try and bring forth the inner beauty in a piece of wood. Its good for us to work with fine woods once in a while and good for the soul.

With plain woods you can also enhance them through surface treatments whether air brushing, pyrography, markers or texturing. You spend more time on each piece this way but your wood cost goes down.

I still have an 18"x2" figured maple platter blank from three years ago waiting to go on the lathe. I haven't worked it yet, because I don't feel I've done enough platters to do justice to the piece. Hopefully in another couple months I'll get to it.

 

[Barbara Gill]

I have always sought wood with outstanding figure, even when just starting turning. That is easy for me since I run a sawmill. In my opinion one of the best ways to display beautiful wood is with a turning. I do not feel that the wood can compensate for poor form though. In fact I have seen many a beautiful piece of wood ruined by poor turning including of course right here at home. I use figured wood when I can because it pleases me and makes turning more enjoyable. Just recently I have started buying some wood here and there. I get tired of always turning what grows around here. Well, except for cherry burl; I never get tired of that. :cool2:

 

[Rob Wallace]

I use figured wood when I can because it pleases me and makes turning more enjoyable. Just recently I have started buying some wood here and there.

I agree completely - the discovery of wonderful figure and color as the turning progresses keeps my interest and fascination as much as the challenge of completing a nice, aesthetically-pleasing form.

I get tired of always turning what grows around here. Well, except for cherry burl; I never get tired of that. :cool2:

Barbara, what woods do you consider 'local", and what specialty woods from your region should we be looking out for at the AAW Symposium next year in Richmond? Is cherry burl fairly common around there? (I know about the great quality of Pennsylvania cherry!)

Whatever advice you could give to wood shoppers attending next year's Symposium would be helpful - Thanks!

Rob

 

[Jake Debski]

Good form can make the most of a plain wood. Form, as I see it, is more than just the shape. As a turner, at best described as early intermediate, my biggest struggle is between shape and the best orientation I can render. My shapes have progressed faster than my understanding of orientation. When visiting an instant gallery, and a particular piece catches my eye, I try to visualize how the turner had that piece situated on the lathe. It is common for me to see shapes similar to what I've done but far more appealing, to my eye than my own, regardless of how fancy the wood. Our chapter Sage constantly says "turn, turn, turn, is the best teacher." I would add, "pay attention to the finished product and try and remember how you got there."

 

[Bill Grumbine]

I think it was Richard Raffan who said, "All wood turns brown". Wild figure or bright color is no substitute for good form. As Barbara said, I have seen lots of beautiful wood turned into ugly forms. A good form will make even a plain piece of wood look good, but a bad form will not be rescued by even the most exotic wood.

Bill

 

[MichaelMouse]

You can turn fancy wood wrong, and you can't make a plain wood piece look fancy. Those who embellish may disagree with the second, but is it just canvas and a frame, or work on canvas and displayed in a frame that makes a painting? Pleasing turnings are a combination of form and figure, and the opportunity to enhance the wood also carries the possibility of lousing it up.

What's important to someone who sells turnings is that they sell, to someone who turns for pleasure, that they please. Personally I won't waste a lot of time refining a plain piece of wood, and often waste too much time on a good one, trying to show it at its best.

I also won't buy plain wood, might consider buying fancy. The asking price doubles or triples for fancy, no matter if it came from the firewood stack where the salad bowl displayed below it originated, or from the rack at Woodcraft.

 

[George Guadiane]

You can turn fancy wood wrong, and you can't make a plain wood piece look fancy. Those who embellish may disagree with the second, but is it just canvas and a frame, or work on canvas and displayed in a frame that makes a painting? Pleasing turnings are a combination of form and figure, and the opportunity to enhance the wood also carries the possibility of lousing it up.

What's important to someone who sells turnings is that they sell, to someone who turns for pleasure, that they please. Personally I won't waste a lot of time refining a plain piece of wood, and often waste too much time on a good one, trying to show it at its best.

I also won't buy plain wood, might consider buying fancy. The asking price doubles or triples for fancy, no matter if it came from the firewood stack where the salad bowl displayed below it originated, or from the rack at Woodcraft.

Thank you baitbeggar for mentioning my work so favorably! The short answer to your title question is Sometimes/Maybe/YES/NO.
(IMHO) Plain wood CAN be VERY beautiful when properly shown in/on/with a well produced, well proportioned vessel. And magnificent wood can easily be overshadowed by a bad form and/or poor production...
Michael: I couldn't agree more about the "firewood" comment. I sell turning wood at symposiums and on line (sometimes). And I turn. At symposiums, I have a couple of display stands, for finished pieces, made from andirons that feature the fact that good wood can be found almost anywhere (I use them as "Saved From The Fireplace" pedestals) not at craft shows where I don't want the potential client to undervalue the beauty of the wood because of its source.
There MUST come a point where we have too much going on, but an excellent form, well made with high figure wood is kind of the best (to me)...
As to the selling part, I'm TRYING to sell, but am still MUCH more concerned with enjoying the process, HOWEVER, having a good outcome (shape finish figure - in that order) is still MUCH more important than getting pieces "good enough" to satisfy customers. I HOPE it always stays that way for me.

 

[waltben]

High figured or furniture grade

I think it all comes down to personal turning prefereces. Many turners who carve/burn/texture/color want straight grain because it turns easily, has little tearout and requires minimal sanding. They can make an object easily that then becomes a base for what they want to add. The same for those that turn very intricate pieces (Chinese balls come to mind, but there are many others). High figured woods with the capilaries running in all kinds of directions make life difficult for these kind of folks.

I've been called a minimalist by a few show judges, because I select high figured woods and then get what I can out of them making relatively simple (mostly) forms - I try not to have my turning skills be the visual focus of attention in a piece. Accomplishing this can easily be just as difficult as carving/burning/texturing/coloring and if you don't believe it, try a really gnarly piece of dry sugar maple that's got a bark inclusion and wind split or two. That's my personal preference, but certainly doesn't have to be anyone elses.

 

[GeorgeH]

... is it just canvas and a frame, or work on canvas and displayed in a frame that makes a painting?

Good point MM. That's why, when I buy a painting, I never buy one in a frame. That's also why I believe that there are two forms of art in a turning. The first is the ability to take a piece of beautiful wood and turn it in such a way that it speaks to you through its grain and color as may be enhanced by its finish and the manner in which the shape of the piece exposes the beauty of the wood's character. The second is the ability to take a plain and very ordinary piece of wood and turn it in such a way that its form alone speaks to you. A fellow named DaVinci seemed to understand the difference between an appreciation for art in one medium as compared to another. Sculpture is art; painting is art. Where, in wood turning, the material represents the medium, the manner in which it is worked becomes the art form.
DaVinci revealed himself as an artist in every medium whether the form was two dimensional or three dimensional and if his work doesn't speak to you, you are not listening. Listen to the turned pieces the next time you have a chance.
http://www.ancientsculpturegallery.com/images/010_a5.jpg
and http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/Leonardo-Da-Vinci/Leonardo-Da-Vinci-oil-paintings.html

 

[Barbara Gill]

Barbara, what woods do you consider 'local", and what specialty woods from your region should we be looking out for at the AAW Symposium next year in Richmond? Is cherry burl fairly common around there? (I know about the great quality of Pennsylvania cherry!)

Whatever advice you could give to wood shoppers attending next year's Symposium would be helpful - Thanks!

Rob[/QUOTE]


Here in Virginia we have Walnut, Cherry, Oaks, Pecan and Hickory, Ash, Sweet Gum, Tupelo, Tulip-poplar, Cottonwood, Ash, both Locusts, Beech, Maples, Holly, Sycamore, Magnolia, fruit wood, etc., etc., etc. Around here (Eastern VA) I don't see many burls and when I do they are most often cherry. To be perfectly honest I really don't have any advice except educate yourself about wood prices before you buy. I would guess that the same vendors will be selling the same wood as usually is sold at the Symposiums.

I have no intentions of selling wood at the Symposium; I am going to be socializing.

 

[Barbara Gill]

I've been called a minimalist by a few show judges, because I select high figured woods and then get what I can out of them making relatively simple (mostly) forms - I try not to have my turning skills be the visual focus of attention in a piece. Accomplishing this can easily be just as difficult as carving/burning/texturing/coloring and if you don't believe it, try a really gnarly piece of dry sugar maple that's got a bark inclusion and wind split or two. That's my personal preference, but certainly doesn't have to be anyone elses.

I have never thought of identifying my style but we have the same basic approach. "Minimalist", I like that.

 

[dkulze]

Nuturner,

I don't think I've read it put better. What it should really come down to, in the best of all possible worlds, is your expression of creativity, vision, and art within the piece that you turn, regardless of the material or how you treat it. If taken that way, we can forgo all the criticisms of style, medium, turned vs. carved vs. painted vs. textured.

That can be a nice conversation but it's nothing to judge a piece on. You judge it on how it speaks to you and how happy you are with it. If others like it too, that's gravy. If that's important to you, it will guide you to a point but the best of us (not speaking of technical skill but of creative talent) are more interested in finding what speaks to us (and for us) as individuals in the long run.

All that being said, if you're turning for a living, you're gonna fight a battle between pleasing the public and yourself. A friend of mine who's trying to be a full time turner speaks to that. She has a true talent for carving abstract and captivating patterns on her bowls. I asked her about buying one recently and she said that she no longer has time to carve and do what she wants. She's bound by doing what she needs to to remain in business, lots of straightforward works but no carving. Bumma.

Dietrich

P.S.(I go for the gnarly wood myself. The more voids, holes, cracks, and bark inclusions the better. haven't bought a piece in years. have chainsaw-will travel)

 

[Brian Hahn]

A lot of good points have already been brought up in this discussion. Here's my $.02 worth.

When I first started turning, I lucked into a pile of maple burl and then a pile of curly maple. The wood's figure made turning exciting. I converted a lot of great wood into typical beginner's pieces, and enjoyed every minute of it!

Currently I'm exploring variations on a form. I'm using a fairly plain wood (elm) because I'm interested in the form, not the wood. (I have an awful lot of elm on hand right now.) Once I get a variant that I like, I use a better piece of wood to make the "real" piece and discard the elm experimental / practice pieces.

 

[Richard Baker]

Charlie,
What a great question! And some outstanding replies. Seems to depend primarily upon what each individual turner wants and/or sometimes needs to achieve. The cost of "fancy" or "exotic" woods is apparently only a secondary consideration for many, but not all. The skill and artistic vision required to create beautiful work in "ordinary" wood should also receive appropriate measure of respect and admiration.

 

[George Guadiane]

Charlie,
What a great question! And some outstanding replies. Seems to depend primarily upon what each individual turner wants and/or sometimes needs to achieve. The cost of "fancy" or "exotic" woods is apparently only a secondary consideration for many, but not all. The skill and artistic vision required to create beautiful work in "ordinary" wood should also receive appropriate measure of respect and admiration.

Your post brought up an interesting question in my mind..:
How good would my work look if I did the same form(s) with "common" straight grain woods?
I am now going to have to try some pieces like that(again), to get an answer.
I hope I'm not disappointed.

 

[Richard Baker]

George,
Thanks for your response. Hope to see report of your test results.

Here's a segmented piece that was shown at SWAT last year. Got mixed reviews, I think. The message at the time was that it isn't necessary to buy high priced wood in order to have fun turning and make interesting (?) stuff. The piece is 25" tall, 15-1/4" dia. at the top, has 440-some segments, and is made from ordinary SYP construction lumber, free scraps scrounged from construction sites.

Edit: Oops, poor picture and too big. Sorry about that.

 

[Jred]

I think that as a novice turner using beautiful wood keeps things exciting. As I turn more and more uncovering different figure I learn to capitalize on it with better technique. I find that nice wood is easy to come by. I almost exclusively turn found wood due to it's cost but here in the Hardwood rich Northeast curl and burl is plentiful.

 

[GeorgeH]

...Here's a segmented piece...made from ordinary SYP construction lumber, free scraps scrounged from construction sites.

Yeah, Texian. Now that's what I'm talkin' about. That is beautifully done.

 

[drjcbarton]

When I think about this question, and I've asked about the same question at my regular wood working forum, I think of potters as in ceramics, not Harry. They rely on a substance that is inherently bland, clay. Form trumps wood every time. Bad form and good wood still equals a bad piece. You can take non-descript wood and make it look beautiful but, the opposite is not true...

 

[Richard Baker]

Nuturner,
Thanks for the kind words. It was kind of a test run on a new 1642; used up the 16 with lots of the 42 left over, and taught me several things. The glue joints are good, but wall thickness is about 2X at 1/2" to 9/16". I still turn chicken when the thing starts to sing and vibrate as the wall gets thinner.

Jred,
We would all use "nice" wood if it were free. You are very fortunate to have access to same.

 

[dkulze]

For a piece that size, you need a spindle steady to damp that vibration. by setting it and moving every few cuts, you can get a nice, even thickness of about 1/4 or less with relative ease. The other trick is to cut to final thinness only a bit at a time, leaving alot of wood in the unfinished parts (1" or more thickness) till it's their turn. You can also use light hand pressure on the outside face to support the cut, though it's risky with a piece that size and should be done at relatively low speeds and a buffer between you and the wood (brown paper/cotton cloth/leather patch or glove/sandpaper).

Really beautiful piece, by the way. Were you aiming for the grain patterns you got or just fortuitous? If the latter, you can use this experience to design patterns in your next piece and share that with us. Please post a photo when you've finished.

Dietrich

 

[Richard Baker]

Thanks, Dietrich. Definitely used a steady, home made, 4 roller. Think I posted it here 2-3 years ago. But I just turned chicken when the wall thickness got to 1/2". Usually build the piece on the lathe, adding 3 or 4 rings at a time, then turning and sanding 3 or 4, but not the last ring. I was trying for all "edge" grain but ran out of suitable scraps, so then tried to disperse the "face" grain segments amongst the edge grain (or vice versa).

So there was some attention to grain pattern, but with a lot more attention to detail it coulda/woulda/shoulda been an "awesome" piece. Thanks again for your kind words.

 

[woodwish]

I was out of town when this thread was active so I missed putting in my $.02 worth. I work with wood because I am fascinated with the grain and all the surprises under the surface. The old saying about "only God can make a tree" is certainly true to me, and I love to see what surprises He has put in each piece. Some are just more of a surprise than others. I have turned metal and made pottery in the past to show my creativity, but sharing my creativity with His work just makes it all that much better. I have turned some "plain" wood and it is fun to turn, but fancy wood is much exciting to turn just for the surprises. As my skills improve I don't mind spending a little more money for more "surprising" wood.

When I look at other's work I look for the skill and craftsmanship, but I also impressed by how well that took a gift of a piece of wood and made something out of it.

edited for sloppy spelling