Re: Phil Brennion

[Malcolm Ray]

OK, Many of us have sent our checks to the Brennion Fund, Now.......what
is the AAW going to do besides posting a letter asking us to help?

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

As far as I'm concerned they've done as much as they should.

Ed

 

[Molly Winton]

With everything Phil has done for the AAW, I think we (as the AAW) can do a whole lot more than just send out a message asking membership to donate. What about having a benefit auction linked to the Richmond Symposium, or stipulating a certain percentage of the regular auction as going to Phil? (Not my idea, but worth repeating.)

 

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Mac and Molly, I'm not at liberty to spill the beans, but there is something in the works. Stay turned.

 

[Malcolm Ray]

Thanks Malcolm.......................

 

[Sean Troy]

As far as I'm concerned they've done as much as they should.

Ed

? Why ? .....

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

? Why ? .....

Fair question, but not one which has an easy answer that will easily satisfy everyone.

As I understand it, the mission of the AAW is "to provide education, information, and organization to those interested in woodturning...".

While I don't personally know Phil Brennion, and had never heard of him before reading the solicitation for financial support, I accept that he was a significant contributor to the AAW and it's mission. I also accept that his situation is dire and help very much needed.

Sending out a notice about the situation and making concerned members aware of available avenues for them to provide support and financial assistance seems to me to be consistent with the sharing "information" aspect of the AAW mission.

Taking it to the next level and using AAW resources to indirectly or directly provide financial support does not seem consistent with the mission. It would also, in my opinion, put the AAW on a slippery slope.

Providing a financial safety net for needy members of the turning community may be a very noble endeavor, but I didn't understand it to be part of the AAW mission. If the mission is expanded to include this type of activity, where do you draw the line in determining who qualifies and who doesn't qualify for support.

Is Phil Brennion the only member of the AAW community that is currently facing signficant medical and / or financial challenges? I suspect not.

Are some members of the AAW more "worthy" than other members. That's a minefield awaiting anyone foolish enough to venture donw that path.

Should any AAW sponsered fund raisers be duplicated for other needy members? If any direct support is given by the AAW, should similar support also be given to other needy members? Difficult questions, but they don't have anything to do with advancing woodturning.

If the AAW takes on the challenge of providing a social safety net, what about all the other very important challenges and issues that could use a little more support.

Should the AAW be buying up forest land to preserve trees for future turners? Should the AAW establish a lobbying effort in DC to advocate for social and political issues that are important to woodturners? Once again, where do you draw the line.

Organizations establish mission statements for a reason. Expanding or modifying the mission statement should not be a trivial exercise. It should be done only after careful and thorough consideration.

To sum it up, I thought the notice to members was effective and sufficient. I think anything more runs the risk of setting the AAW on a course that will ultimately distract the AAW from it's primary mission of advancing woodturning.

Ed

 

[Bill Boehme]

Mac and Molly, I'm not at liberty to spill the beans, but there is something in the works. Stay turned.

I think that Marlen Kemmet, the Managing Editor of Wood Magazine already spilled the beans. He mentioned on the Wood Online Woodturning forum that some plans like charity auctions are in the works.

Bill

 

[Garmar]

Very well thought out Ed, and I agree with your questions about the mission of the AAW.

 

[john lucas]

All I know is that I know is that when you have been around Phil you feel better. He is a great guy who readily shared all he could with his fellow turners. He and his family need our help and I will try to do what I can. I think the response from the AAW is this same feeling. Once you've been around phil you become his friend and in this situation you want to help.

 

[Griesbach]

I think that we have all benefited from Phil's efforts on behalf of AAW and that members, either individually or through their chapter efforts, should consider helping. I know I will do my best as will countless others.

However...Ed McDonnel is right on.

 

[Malcolm Ray]

Response to Ed..

I understand your position on the matter,and agree with most of what you said.I feel that the people who manage the AAW can effectively,and without using the AAW's financial resources,co-ordinate a much more effective response to the situation than we can individually.The club efforts that are being made are a show of caring for one of our own, and I appreciate them as I am sure Mr.Brennion does.Also we as individuals can do a bit by sending funds to the bank that is handling the funds.I see no reason why the management of the AAW should not assist with this effort if they feel they can help....just my take on it....thanks.....Mac

 

[Charlie Harley]

I have to agree with Ed on this one. I don't Phil personally, but he seems like a great guy who touched a lot of people in a positive way. We should all live our lives in such a way that a compliment such as this can be said about us.

But the AAW has done what's appropriate in letting members know of Phil's plight. Those who wish to help can do so as directed.

But I personally would like my AAW membership dues to stay focused on the organization's mission and not on social or individual causes. I have other money that I use to help friends in need.

 

[Sean Troy]

I think there has been some misunderstanding here. First off, the AAW is not spending AAW money on this, they are just helping AAW members do the fund raising. Second, Phil has done more for the AAW and Woodturning in a positive manner than anyone. Third, he is the most giving and honest person you will ever meet bar none. I don't think you'll find anyone who knows him disagree. He is a very rare commodity in this day and age. Along the lines of helping woodturners, the AAW does have a fund set up for those who have suffered hardships such as shops wiped out in natural diasters. Why wouldn't the AAW help out Phil is the question?

 

[john lucas]

There seems to be a lot of speculation going on. I think we should wait until we know what's happening before we launch into full blown AAW good or bad bunch of responses.

 

[James McClure]

There have been other efforts in the past

Ed makes some excellent points and I agree that the AAW should not go down the "slippery slope", however, when needs arise I think the AAW should have the flexibility to step in and help out as long as they stay within their mission statement, but it is definitely a fine line to walk as Ed has already cautioned.

I remember not too long after hurricane Katrina, there were some efforts to raise money and the AAW helped administer the funds. I was contacted by one of the AAW board members to see if any of the members of my club were affected by the hurricane and not already covered by insurance. Fortunately, none of the members of my club were affected. I don't know the entire story about the fund raising and whatnot, but I'm sure it really helped out some folks who were in need.

 

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Ed makes some excellent points and I agree that the AAW should not go down the "slippery slope", however, when needs arise I think the AAW should have the flexibility to step in and help out as long as they stay within their mission statement, but it is definitely a fine line to walk as Ed has already cautioned.

I remember not too long after hurricane Katrina, there were some efforts to raise money and the AAW helped administer the funds. I was contacted by one of the AAW board members to see if any of the members of my club were affected by the hurricane and not already covered by insurance. Fortunately, none of the members of my club were affected. I don't know the entire story about the fund raising and whatnot, but I'm sure it really helped out some folks who were in need.

James, that was a "grass-roots" effort, headed up by Binh Pho. It gave the AAW the ability to establish an "Emergency Relief Fund". As I recall, about $70K was raised and over $60K was distributed to AAW members who had suffered losses. The fund is still in place today (making a little interest) and is available for members who suffer "natural" disasters, such as flood, fire, earthquake, etc.

 

[robert davis]

you ar right

Fair question, but not one which has an easy answer that will easily satisfy everyone.

As I understand it, the mission of the AAW is "to provide education, information, and organization to those interested in woodturning...".

While I don't personally know Phil Brennion, and had never heard of him before reading the solicitation for financial support, I accept that he was a significant contributor to the AAW and it's mission. I also accept that his situation is dire and help very much needed.

Sending out a notice about the situation and making concerned members aware of available avenues for them to provide support and financial assistance seems to me to be consistent with the sharing "information" aspect of the AAW mission.

Taking it to the next level and using AAW resources to indirectly or directly provide financial support does not seem consistent with the mission. It would also, in my opinion, put the AAW on a slippery slope.

Providing a financial safety net for needy members of the turning community may be a very noble endeavor, but I didn't understand it to be part of the AAW mission. If the mission is expanded to include this type of activity, where do you draw the line in determining who qualifies and who doesn't qualify for support.

Is Phil Brennion the only member of the AAW community that is currently facing signficant medical and / or financial challenges? I suspect not.

Are some members of the AAW more "worthy" than other members. That's a minefield awaiting anyone foolish enough to venture donw that path.

Should any AAW sponsered fund raisers be duplicated for other needy members? If any direct support is given by the AAW, should similar support also be given to other needy members? Difficult questions, but they don't have anything to do with advancing woodturning.

If the AAW takes on the challenge of providing a social safety net, what about all the other very important challenges and issues that could use a little more support.

Should the AAW be buying up forest land to preserve trees for future turners? Should the AAW establish a lobbying effort in DC to advocate for social and political issues that are important to woodturners? Once again, where do you draw the line.

Organizations establish mission statements for a reason. Expanding or modifying the mission statement should not be a trivial exercise. It should be done only after careful and thorough consideration.

To sum it up, I thought the notice to members was effective and sufficient. I think anything more runs the risk of setting the AAW on a course that will ultimately distract the AAW from it's primary mission of advancing woodturning.

Ed

there must be other aaw members who need help. just not as well known. how do we help them?

 

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

there must be other aaw members who need help. just not as well known. how do we help them?

Robert, as a board member, I am especially sensitive to the issue of helping one person in need and not helping another and then thereafter being subjected to criticism. At the same time, the challenge and fear of not treating people evenly and fairly should not prevent individuals from trying to help someone. In general, people just want to do “the right thing”. I think I can speak for the board when I say that no general AAW funds will be spent in an effort to help Phil or any other member. As someone stated, that’s not what our organization is about. At the same time, I see nothing wrong with a few individuals trying to organize some sort of fund-raiser for one of our own who is so deeply in need of help. For example, if an AAW volunteer(s) at the Richmond symposium were to organize a raffle of some sort in order to raise funds for Phil, would that be considered “over the line”? Personally, I don’t think so and I don’t think that our by-laws specifically prevent such activities. I remember well, after the Katrina disaster, the nation-wide effort to raise money for AAW gulf-coast members. Chapters around the country “passed the hat” and some had specific fund-raising events and checks were mailed to victims. It was a “feel good” feeling for those that helped, not to mention the unexpected boost that it provided fellow members. Not one member from another part of the country complained or asked, “What about me?” If they had asked, then their situation would have been also investigated and met with a response.

Regarding your question about how do we help others in need, I think the same way that people want to help Phil. Friends simply need to identify and organize. In some cases, it may simply be “passing the hat” at a local chapter meeting. If Phil had never contributed so much to our national organization, if he had simply been a local club member, then likely, a local fund-raiser would be about as much as would occur. But that’s not the case. Phil is known far and wide and people all over the country have a desire to help him and his family. That doesn’t mean that he’s more deserving than a less well-known member, but because he is more widely known, a boarder spectrum of members are likely to response to his situation.

It’s wise to analyze things and to be careful about setting precedents. I have no fear; I don’t think that anything that might be done on Phil’s behalf will establish an unwanted situation.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Helping?

Malcolm,

I truly hope that this effort has been set up properly lest it hurt Phil and his family more than it will help them.

Has this thing been set up as a recognized charity for Phil's medical bills as is often done, or is it just "send money to Phil" on which he will have to pay large sums in income tax on the gifts? The issue is not providing a tax benefit to donors but rather shielding Phil from what could be a very large tax liability.

If I wish to give something to help with his bills, I sure as hell don't want 1/3 to 1/2 of what I send him going to the IRS. I most assuredly don't want to see the money spent for care this year only to have the tax man take their house next year because all the money's gone.

I've seen nothing posted about this, and would like to hear from someone involved.

Mark Mandell

 

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Mark, at this point, any effort, beyond informing members of Phil's situation, is still in the planning/discussion stage. You bring up a good point - thanks for your advice. As soon as any plan is decided upon, it will surely be posted here.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

helping Phil Brennion

It is rare for me to peruse or even login to this forum. Nor do I intend to change that habit.

Having served on the board with Phil Brennion, it was a grand experience to work with him. I also served with Malcolm and Sean on the board, and I greatly share their opinion on this topic. I trust the board will do the proper thing and I have no reservations about supporting them in this effort.

Not only is Phil a genuinely nice guy, he probably epitomizes that characterization in a Wikipedia entry (ie. the definition of nice guy references Phil Brennion, or it should anyhow). He dedicated countless hours to the AAW as an unpaid board member in an effort to further the community of woodturners and the art of woodwork and woodturning.

Phil was the AAW Board President at one point. That is no small task. I have seen the tireless work (free volunteerism) it takes to support that position through Phil Brennion's and Angelo Iafrate's work. It is generally a thankless position leaving little free time to enjoy the actual woodturning that is being supported.

AAW members should consider supporting whatever effort is being organized to help Phil. He is worthy of the attention and whatever help can be provided. For what it's worth, I have contributed as well.

......

 

[Charlie Harley]

It's been interesting to see how this thread is playing out. I was one of the early posters who raised caution.

As of now, I see nothing wrong with using the AAW Forum as a way of reaching individual members who would want to contribute in some way to Phil's situation. It would be a positive thing to do without using AAW resources, other than bandwidth, which are directed to supporting AAW's mission. (And the small amount of bandwidth is nothing in cost.)

 

[Gretch Flo]

forum stimulus

It's been interesting to see how this thread is playing out. I was one of the early posters who raised caution.

As of now, I see nothing wrong with using the AAW Forum as a way of reaching individual members who would want to contribute in some way to Phil's situation. It would be a positive thing to do without using AAW resources, other than bandwidth, which are directed to supporting AAW's mission. (And the small amount of bandwidth is nothing in cost.)

The forum discussion has stimulated me to donate-"the check's in the mail" Gretch

 

[Ruth Niles]

I have a few questions or thoughts regarding helping members in need, not just Phil.

First, I'm curious, do the people who get educational grants have to pay a gift tax? If not, why would a help grant be subject to taxes?

The Relief Fund is for "natural" disasters and that's very good but they don't really happen regularly. There are a lot of AAW members with special needs. Is it possible to have a "need" grant? For example; a turner can no longer stand at the lathe, he gets a Need Grant to go toward the purchase of a sit-down lathe "to further pursue is woodturning" or to "insure his woodturning future".

Either some of the money from the Relief Fund or cut back on 3 (example) grants to go for this purpose. My thought is there are a few grants awarded each year that are awarded simply because the money is there and the need really isn't that great for that particular grant............. did that make sense? I know someone will read that wrong but I can't think of another way to word it.

Furthing the art of woodturning can be realized by helping someone with a special need not just someone who wants to learn how to pierce or carve their turnings better or learn spindle turning vs bowls. Yes, that is important and Yes, the grants are being handled just fine. I'm just thinking there might be a way of really helping more woodturners further their trade/hobby. Or is this already taken into consideration for the existing Grants?

Ruth

 

[Barbara Gill]

Good questions Ruth. I will be interested in the answers.

 

[justaccord]

First, I'm curious, do the people who get educational grants have to pay a gift tax? If not, why would a help grant be subject to taxes?

Ruth

The concern about taxes is a good one, and should be looked into by a CPA or tax lawyer who knows. In general, educational institutions, foundations, etc. go to the IRS and apply for tax-free status for their organizations (501c3 organizations include educational as well as charitable) and thus have no tax liability for what would otherwise be their "income".

Gifts are subject to gift taxes (which have high individual deductibles) but not to income tax. I doubt there would be tax consequences to the recipient of gifts of the kind we are discussing, but it should be pinned down.

 

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Hurray for Powermatic

I am very pleased to announce that WMH tool group, the parent company of Powermatic and Jet has generously donated (at no expense to the AAW) a 3520B lathe, including shipping. This machine will be raffled to benefit Phil during the Richmond Symposium. In addition to selling raffle tickets in Richmond, I hope we can establish an "online" procedure for those that will not be attending.

Al Hockenbery was instrumental in securing this donation.

Obviously, there's some work to be done (signage, selling tickets, etc). A few volunteers to help administer the raffle would be wonderful.

Any volunteers out there?

 

[Malcolm Ray]

Thanks very much Malcolm...........will be much appreciated I'm sure......

 

[Barbara Gill]

Malcolm, I will be available to sell tickets for awhile at the Symposium. Please let me know the particulars.

 

[Ruth Niles]

Malcolm, thanks for the info and thanks for participating on this forum as much as you do to keep us informed. Al Hockenbery does too, some. I sort of wish the other board members gave us their input, too.

This is great news about the benefit raffle of the Powermatic donation.....at no expense to the AAW.......... sort of disappointed in the AAW, sort of sounds proud not to have to put out anything. I know it's mission statement is not to help woodturners in need, rather to further woodturning, but I think a little part of it should be. *getting off the soap box now

How about putting tickets in some of the vendor's booths? Just about everyone visits the vendor area. Or did you already plan on that?

Ruth

 

[Sean Troy]

I don't think selling the tickets at just the Symposium will bring near the benefit of also selling them through the AAW website. I'm sure there are a lot of AAW members that can't go to the symposium that would love to help out Phil by purchasing a ticket or two.

 

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

I don't think selling the tickets at just the Symposium will bring near the benefit of also selling them through the AAW website. I'm sure there are a lot of AAW members that can't go to the symposium that would love to help out Phil by purchasing a ticket or two.

Sean, we're going to try to set up an "on line" sales system.

 

[Sean Troy]

Sean, we're going to try to set up an "on line" sales system.

Thanks Malcolm, that would be wonderful !