any last advice...

[Charlie Knighton]

tomorrow is the big day, i have turned box elder hf (new method, turn outside then hollow, turn more outside then hollow)(saw Larry Hasiak do it, it makes more sense watching someone do it) now the big test

bought from woodworker's supply the two part wood bleach

any advice, i have bought some gloves, i have paint brushes....:cool2:

the wood is pucky around hole, no reason for the wood to be punky there, and did not realize it til almost finished rough turning, should i do anything for the edges, i have some sanding sealer?????? any ideas??

 

[Steve Worcester]

In my experience, depending on which 2 part bleach mixture, if you leave it saturated for too long, it can crack on drying.

 

[john lucas]

I have dyed a lot of box elder with no problems. I don't really saturate the vessel but do cover it with enough bleach to keep it wet. Don't use a brush with a brass ferrule. I use Q tips. I let the first coat dry and then sand lightly with 600 grit to remove the raised grain. Then I put the next several coats on kind of whenever I feel like it as the day goes on.
The finish will change the color so when you think you have it light enough do at least 1 or 2 more applications. When you apply each application you you will get some idea of how it will look with finish while it's still wet.
The Bleach I use says that you should neutralize it if you use more than one application. I never have and haven't had any problems.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Charlie,

If you'll look up the thread on this, I think you'll find Kim Blatt's advice on "how to" where he was specific in NOT mixing the two parts (per the box directions) but rather applying a coat of "A" followed by a coat of "B".

Since neutralizing is done with a coat of white vinegar, it's no big deal to do, and will prevent any chemistry issues with your finishing routine.

Since you indicate you've got some areas of weak fibers, I'd apply the two coat method and allow to dry to see where it will take you. Once you get there, sand off the raised grain with fresh sharp paper and spot-treat any areas you sand through the bleached layer. Remember, bleaching is a surface treatment and the bleached layer is rather thin.

 

[Gretch Flo]

Pic after treatment

Charlie-please show us the result. Good luck, Gertch

 

[dkulze]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry. Just my reflex reaction to bleaching something that beautiful.

Good luck, Charlie. Looking forward to the results.

dk

 

[Wipedout]

I am curious as to what purpose the bleaching will accompish? You planning on dyeing it?

thanks

Robert

 

[Charlie Knighton]

bleaching

Robert

the bleaching will turn the wood white except i am bleaching box elder, box elder has red stains from an insect, the red will stay and/or be enhanced, so instead of yellow and pink/brown/etc i will hopefully have white background with red instead of pink

i have put on 3 A and 3 B, using a then b, i see where you could get the wood saturated, i may not put any more on til it dries some, have vinigar standing by, only used it on my finger where i had a dime size white spot appear, do not know if it was a or b i got on me but the vinagar took care of it

i will either put lacquer on it or poly, have not deceided, i am doing a little patch on a stick to try both on to see which i like

 

[Mark Mandell]

Robert

the bleaching will turn the wood white except i am bleaching box elder, box elder has red stains from an insect, the red will stay and/or be enhanced, so instead of yellow and pink/brown/etc i will hopefully have white background with red instead of pink

i have put on 3 A and 3 B, using a then b, i see where you could get the wood saturated, i may not put any more on til it dries some, have vinigar standing by, only used it on my finger where i had a dime size white spot appear, do not know if it was a or b i got on me but the vinagar took care of it

i will either put lacquer on it or poly, have not deceided, i am doing a little patch on a stick to try both on to see which i like

Charlie,
If you're going through the trouble of bleaching to get a real white, you should only be considering water-white finishes. Put regular NC lacquer or most poly on and you'll have yellow wood that will cancel out all your bleaching. M.L. Campbell's Krystal is a water-white lacquer that will do well. General finishes' Enduro Clear Acrylic is an excellent waterborne urethane that brushes or sprays very well.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Krystal

Krystal is an expensive set up for one piece, will try several water based poly,s and clear lacquer on my stick, hope i find something

 

[dkulze]

So the bleach doesn't affect the coloring? Thought it would. That's good to know.

dk

 

[john lucas]

I've always mixed the part A and B on my bleach and never had any problems. It will stay good in the cup all day so I keep on using it. Since it usually takes from 3 to 6 or 8 coats to really lighten some woods I just keep using the mixture until it starts to gel in the cup. I've had this same bleach now for about 4 years and it's still working fine.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

2 bleach questions

i am up to 5 each a and b, may try to mix them tomorrow if i have not gotten light enough, the question is should i put the vinagar on tonight if i am going to continue bleaching tomorrow? :cool2:

after the 1st two times with 20 minutes between , i am doing a wait 20 minutes, b wait 40 minutes, then back to a wait 20 minutes

the b part is much wetter if that is possible

if ya mix them, is it 50/50/

 

[Mark Mandell]

i am up to 5 each a and b, may try to mix them tomorrow if i have not gotten light enough, the question is should i put the vinagar on tonight if i am going to continue bleaching tomorrow? :cool2:

after the 1st two times with 20 minutes between , i am doing a wait 20 minutes, b wait 40 minutes, then back to a wait 20 minutes

the b part is much wetter if that is possible

if ya mix them, is it 50/50/

Charlie,

Suggest you stop and LET IT DRY as the bleaching action continues. You're putting far too much on. With 5 applications it should be paper white with not even any red remaining!!!

 

[Charlie Knighton]

thanks....its a learning curve, some things i start at the bottom
5 pm

 

[Charlie Knighton]

try on stick

If you're going through the trouble of bleaching to get a real white, you should only be considering water-white finishes.

i am going to try minwax water-based polycrylic protective finish, clear semi-gloss on my stick afterdinner, see what happens...they say it is for light woods maple, ash, and birch

 

[Gretch Flo]

red change?

Charlie-how much of the red changed?? You have a pic of the opposite side (unless you did a supurb job on filling the hole!@!!!), so I can't compare the pics, Gretch

 

[Charlie Knighton]

red changed

how much of the red changed?? You have a pic of the opposite side (red changed so I can't compare the pics, Gretch

well, it's pink/red and white with a couple of spots around the hole that are yellow, i put white vinager on it yesterday around 5 pm and that turned the bright red back to pink, but i did not know how much vinager to put on or how much a & b bleach, i look forward to trying another piece this summer, i made the stand today and in process of ebonizing it now while putting 3 coats of poly on, i am not sure if i had only done maybe 3 coatings of bleach i would not have had to use the vinager??, anybody know???, back to work tomorrow so i will make a top next week
i plan to enter it in Piedmont Arts' Expressions 2008 here locally
hope to have finished picture to gallery next week

red changed so I can't compare the pics

would you believe ca glue and shavings???

 

[Wipedout]

Looking great - please be sure to show us the completed piece when done -Im real curious

 

[MichaelMouse]

i am not sure if i had only done maybe 3 coatings of bleach i would not have had to use the vinager??, anybody know???, back to work tomorrow so i will make a top next week

TSP is a strong alkali, but solubility in water is pretty good. Did you wash the piece? Not that it should make a lot of difference, since the redox reactions require a solvent like water. Status quo should be preserved once the residual chlorine outgases and the TSP reverts to powder in the pores. Once dry, no problem with non-polar solvents as would be the case with oil-based finishes.

If you use something hygroscopic like lye, might be a different story.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

bleach

Did you wash the piece?

no, i did not wash it, it continued to whiten even after putting the poly on, the yellow is gone around the opening, the bottom tip is endgrain and it is not completely white, but not yellow, just looks a little dirty

over all i am happy, it is a page white with pink instead of red, i lost the red when i applied the white vinager, i have not buffed it yet, looking forward to seeing how it buffs out

be off thursday and will finish up

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Argh

Bleached Box Elder
9 x 4.5

its a little more pink than red and the white is whiter on the side without the opening, the opening side more pearl white
i hope to improve my stand making in the future, is evolve the correct word