The lathe is just a tool

[john lucas]

David Wilkins brings up a good point on another thread. He said that there are lots of projects that can be turned on any lathe and that the size of the lathe is unimportant. I would like to take it a step further. How important do you think the lathe is to your work. To me, I love the lathe and most projects either start or finish on the lathe. However it's becoming more a tool just like my spoke shave, Foredom carver, disc sander and router. I think up a project and then figure out the best way to make it. If that happens to be the lathe (which it usually is) then so be it. But if all it takes is my angle grinder and some carving knives then I'll go for it. I seem to be doing more work off the lathe now. Most of it is carving, texturing or pyrography but I'm leaning a little toward some art projects that may not touch the lathe at all. Maybe I can set the project on the lathe to dry and still call it turning.

 

[Don Peek]

You bring up a very interesting point. I remember one very famous turner saying if it were possible he would no longer turn, but only do the finishing artistic part of his pieces. I think we actually have two classes of individuals, those that are true turners and those who are artist that turn

 

[Mark Placek]

All of my current turnings stay on the lathe for only a few hours.
The techniques I employ during the bowls construction makes for a shorter turning time.

Most of my time is spent after the turning comes off the lathe.

I've been told that post-turning elements are required to transform a simple vessel into art...

What do you think?

 

[MichaelMouse]

It's a personal thing. Some concentrate on shape and size, some figure and finish, and others like to hide the fact that it's a turned object made of a natural material. If I were of the third school, I'd take up pottery. Ceramics can be made easily into "hollow forms" complete with texture and color.

Just ain't my thing.

My tablesaw is a tool, my lathe is a diversion.

 

[salgoud]

I feel the same way. My joy is in the finish product and how I get there is not that important except for the skill it takes to make it.

However the lathe right now is still the dominate tool I used.

 

[mrGeeze]

a few notions

Perhaps the lathe offers us both the certainty of a tool and the risk of a creative process. Perhaps it does more of this than some of our other tools.

Consider for example, a table saw. We measure & we cut. let us say 5- 3/4" wide rip. done. wonderful. then we go back to the bench & cut holes in it with a chisel. We're making a drawer. all the specs are on the drawing.

We sometimes address our lathe in this fashion.
Certainly a lathe is a tool that offers us the ability to turn very 1- 1/2 " x 24" spindles with 3 beads and 4 coves till we're blue in the face.

But sometimes we're not measuring so much. Sometimes we're just making a salad bowl. Often it doesn't matter whether it comes out 14" or 12" or how deep it is. This type of turning affords us an opportunity to focus more on the risk of creativity. The fairness of a curve is not defined on a drawing but is something we strive for. We render it in real time in our brain. Whether we keep or cut out a bark inclusion near the rim is decided & executed often in minutes or seconds. the shape of the foot is determined as we see the outside curve develop.

Our skills as artists afford us the vision to see the possibilities that lay before us.
Our skills as craftsmen dictate how well we use the tool(s) to execute this "risky" vision.

Well now, I've confused myself. Perhaps the lathe is just a tool.

just some thoughts.

 

[rjones]

Turning or Sculpture, Sculpture or Turning

 

[Jake Debski]

A rose by any other name.......

It seems to me that we all started turning for similar if not the exact same reasons, fun, creative outlet, a sell-able product, self satisfaction,etc., etc. In this respect the lathe is the enabler, the tool, the means to an end. For most, the product we produce on the lathe is the end in itself, because of the beauty of the wood and our creative needs are satisfied. There is another facet of the turning community that is not “just satisfied” with the lathe created end product. These folks need to carve, burn, color, distort the lathe product to satisfy their creative needs. For them the lathe is merely a starting point just another tool to help them reach their goal. To both groups it is a tool, it is the person using the tool that makes it more or less central to the end result.

I believe it was a British philosopher that said “.....those that can,..do..........”

 

[S. Clark]

Our skills as artists afford us the vision to see the possibilities that lay before us.
Our skills as craftsmen dictate how well we use the tool(s) to execute this "risky" vision.

I remember how as a new turner it would require a couple days (or more) for me to turn a simple bowl form. There was a feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction (after a lot of frustration in working through the project) with the completed piece, simple in design as it may have been. Now that same product gets completed in an hour or two and there is little feeling of accomplishment. It seems to become necessary to employee additional techniques and skills to the make these project feel rewarding at completion.

- Scott

 

[john lucas]

Scott I think you might have nailed it for me. I do find a bowl rewarding when I really nail the shape or the wood is spectacular. I do get the shapes pretty good most of the time but I simply don't have the funds to buy nice wood and the local woods are pretty plain. Consequently I decorate.
I disagree with the statement that you can't have art unless you add decorationt to the bowl. I went to show about 3 years ago that had Prisitini and Osolnik work. The art museum that placed these must have thought they were art, and I as a viewer certainly thought they stood equally as strong as the other pieces that were highly decorated.

 

[David Wilkins]

For me, the lathe is the absolute focus of the work. Everything else really only plays a supporting role. I'd really rather just throw a lump of wood on and do something with it, as opposed to segmented work. Mind you my peppermills are the exception to that.

On the flipside of that opinion, I'm working considerably on improving my finishing, photography and just about anything to do with the presentation of the work I do. I figure it's just as important.

Don't get my original comment wrong, while you can turn 1000's of projects on a midi, my DVR is a downright joy to work on in comparision. Some day oneway/serious/stubby/vb36 just because.

 

[Dave Roller]

It's a personal thing. Some concentrate on shape and size, some figure and finish, and others like to hide the fact that it's a turned object made of a natural material. If I were of the third school, I'd take up pottery. Ceramics can be made easily into "hollow forms" complete with texture and color.

Just ain't my thing.

My tablesaw is a tool, my lathe is a diversion.

I find absolutely nothing here to disagree with. I would only add that the body becomes a part of the cutting tool when working on the lathe. It's much easier to learn to push a piece of wood past a revolving cutter than it is to push a cutter over/around a piece of revolving wood.

 

[Richard Baker]

Thinking about Scott's and John's posts and realized that's why I started segmenting. Limited funds for "nice" wood and did not want to just keep on making nondescript "brown and round" stuff. Unfortunately my move to segs was at the expense of spending time mastering the fundamentals of turning. My focus was usually on the goal (vision of the finished piece), with minimal attention to the basics of tool presentation and control. Now must practice some basics and try to catch up to myself.

 

[Keith T.]

Hey John, I agree with you. I apprenticed as a cabinetmaker, and have spent most of my adult life in that line of work. Traditionally, the lathe is just another tool, used for specific purposes. Chair legs, table columns, ballisters, etc. were some of the things the lathe was used for. I truly believe that a craftsperson must strive to produce the very best work they are capable of, and if they are fortunate, they may even develop their own personal style. That involves utilizing all of their abilities, whether carving, painting, turning, or any other skill. The best examples of turned work will usually reflect the makers experiences and full capabilities. Why then impose limitations on what equipment may be used to produce your work? When I approach the lathe, I feel a sense of freedom....I'm only limited by my own imagination, not the tools I choose to use.

 

[GeorgeH]

For me, it's not the project, it's the process. It's not that I enjoy making things with my lathe, it's that I enjoy using my lathe to make things. I make chips, curls, sawdust, cups, bowls, spindles, things I keep and things I throw away. No matter what I make using my lathe I enjoy every second of it. It's true that I sometimes use the lathe to make elements for purposes other than a good looking piece of turned wood to rest on a shelf (e.g. a tool handle) but those utilitarian uses are just as much fun for me as turning a segmented piece. I have reached the stage where a piece can explode on the lathe and fly all over the shop because of some stupid move I made and I just sweep it up and move on to the next project or idea. That's because, as I previously stated, it's the joy I get from the process. I'd like the result to be worthy of kudos but if it isn't I haven't lost a thing.

 

[Ruth Niles]

I'm going to give a different perspective or analogy:

You are a baker, you start off with the mixer, a tool. Next the oven, another tool. Then you decorate it, the artwork.

Simplistic, yes, but it sounds the same to me...... in a different way. Everything is a "tool" to get you to your final piece.

 

[S. Clark]

nondescript "brown and round" stuff.

Richard, the first time I heard this “brown and round†quote was from Andi Wolf at a demo. I was struck dumb as it hit me squarely that I was stuck there. I immediately went home and started looking at my work differently. A door was opened to an enormous ballroom. Most of the floor space open and available for dancing.

I enjoyed Keith’s presentations at the Woodturning Roundup because of the same thought process he presents above.

- Scott

 

[Burt Alcantara]

For me, turning is getting there. Other woodworking is being there. Once a project is finished, I'm no longer interested. Often, I don't care if I make a funnel or lampshade. I just like the turning process. Of course, I haven't gotten to the point where I can do anything dramatic after the fact. When and if that happens...

Burt

 

[GeorgeH]

... analogy:

You are a baker, you start off with the mixer, a tool. Next the oven, another tool. Then you decorate it, the artwork.

Simplistic, yes, but it sounds the same to me...... in a different way. Everything is a "tool" to get you to your final piece.

Pretty close, Ruth, but you missed the art of the process. For bread making, the texture of the raw flour as it changes into a soft dough, the smell of the fresh yeast, the magic of the way what was once a raw powder becomes elastic and seemingly unbreakable, the excitement of the rise. For you cake analogy, the soft feel of the flour, how the light dances on the sugar crystals, how beautifully the color of the batter gradually changes when the egg yolks are added, the velvety texture of the batter as it pours into the pans, the richness of the browned layers as the leave the oven, etc. The art is as much in the process as it is in the finished product. IMO, the decorating step, for a cake, is adding one form of art on top of another.
Wood turning takes a piece of wood and seeks first to uncover its hidden inner beauty.

 

[john lucas]

Scott what a great way to look at it.
"A door was opened to an enormous ballroom. Most of the floor space open and available for dancing."
I think I'll put that in my shop somewhere.

 

[odie]

An interesting thread. It's more conceptual, or philosophical.....rather than the usual mechanical observation.

For me, the lathe is just a tool. I could be happy with many lathes, but my Woodfast is MINE......and it becomes the link between me, the artist, my hands, and what all can produce in a combined effort.

This is very similar to the link between Monet and his brushes......neither, by themselves can create the masterpiece......but, each, being manipulated by the other.....does!

OOC

 

[Marc Ruby]

My lathe is both a thing in itself and a means to an end. For me the pleasure of seeing a stream of wet wood fly over my shoulder or the focus required to produce a vessel are joys of their own. The end (I'm hesitant to overuse the label 'art'), a vessel or bowl, with a harmonious shape, finish, and feel is another joy. And the wood is yet another joy. And a fine machine, good tools, so on.

I'm sorry if I sound overly poetic, but woodturning is a mix of any number of skills and the more we take the time to find the pleasure in each of the 'means' the better we are at creating our 'ends'. I think we need to leave the determination of what is art and what isn't to others, and focus more on tending to our own satisfactions.

Marc

 

[Ruth Niles]

Pretty close, Ruth, but you missed the art of the process. For bread making, the texture of the raw flour as it changes into a soft dough, the smell of the fresh yeast, the magic of the way what was once a raw powder becomes elastic and seemingly unbreakable, the excitement of the rise. For you cake analogy, the soft feel of the flour, how the light dances on the sugar crystals, how beautifully the color of the batter gradually changes when the egg yolks are added, the velvety texture of the batter as it pours into the pans, the richness of the browned layers as the leave the oven, etc. .......

Goodness, George, you are poetic and should be a writer! You had me not only salivating with you description of baking bread but took me right back to my grandmother's kitchen and the wonderful aromas. I remember sneaking pinches of the bread dough rising, that was better than the finished product!

Thank you.

 

[Dave Bowers]

I myself started sculpting my work I think for similar reasons stated already in this thread. One reason for looking past the basic object, I'm heavily interested in the glass blowing process so there a sense of doing more to fill the creative void. A second reason is one of my friends/mentors is a wood sculptor so that has had a major influence. I started carving and sculpting work just as it was starting to become accepted. Now, it's become a way to set yourself apart from others. It does take time and with 3 young boys at home, my output has slowed. That's O.K. I'd rather put the time in with them while they're young and still want me around.

It's interesting that I read the "Brown and Round" being quoted. It almost appears that now the attitude among some is if you just turn normal shapes, it's boring, "It's round and brown". Well we really all know that the shapes have been turned in wood, ceramic, gold, etc....for centuries. One of my other mentors/friends who helped me early on still turns nothing but boxes, open bowls, and similar projects. His enjoyment comes from trying to perfect each form and the turning process itself. I have a feeling many of the AAW members fall into this type of category whether it's hollow forms, bowls, or whatever. For me the lathe is another tool to accomplish the job but I still highly value lines of a well turned bowl or vase.

 

[Vernon Oberle]

Sometimes it the journey not where we're going

I have been a ham radio operator for 47 years. I never really cared that much about talking to people but it was the building of the gear and antennas and making them work that excited me.

I have to always be making something as I can't stand to just sit and watch TV. I love the lathe becasue it allows me to make things in either a short or long time frame depending on my mood. But, also a lot depends on the wood you are able to get. Some wood is too nice to alter and should stand on its own while other (i.e. cottonwood) is just so darn ugly or bland it needs something done to it so it will be more that firewood or practice. I like to do things to some of my turnings if for no other reason than using them as the pallate for learning other techniques (i.e. pyrography, paint, piercing, etc.).

If we all liked the same things it would be a really boring place. Everyone has different talents and different tastes. We should accept what a person likes to do to a turning. I personally get tired of bowls but like hollow forms but still like to turn a bowl once in a while. I get bored doing the same things for very long. Guess I have ADD.

Vernon

 

[Richard Baker]

"Brown and Round"

Scott and Dave,
It is indeed an Andi Wolf phrase that I first read in her comments about judging an art show. I recall being disturbed by the implication that most purely B&R was not art (just my interpretation of the comments at the time, but probably not exactly what Andi meant). Obviously the wonderful Osolnik candlesticks and many, many other examples are certainly "art". Bottom line was realization that little if any of my B&R stuff could be considered art, and it might be good to attempt to bring up my game a bit.

And, yeah it's just a tool, but reality is whatever story one makes up, or one perceives it to be. So whatever floats your boat is cool with me.

 

[Steve Worcester]

It's interesting that I read the "Brown and Round" being quoted. It almost appears that now the attitude among some is if you just turn normal shapes, it's boring, "It's round and brown". Well we really all know that the shapes have been turned in wood, ceramic, gold, etc....for centuries.

I would correct it to say that for some, turning "normal" is boring to them. Sure, I turn normal, alot, and then do alot of coloring and glass for it. But even where I am today, is different from my start 15 years ago and my future 15 years from now. For the most part, we will still all turn "normal" then manipulate.

I guess I have never understood the fixation with trying to delineate the traditional vs manipulated or craft vs art or all turned or barely turned. That is probably why I think of the lathe as just another tool to get me where I want to go (today).

Is it only "woodturning" if it is only done on the lathe and with no other tools?

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have been a ham radio operator for 47 years. I never really cared that much about talking to people but it was the building of the gear and antennas and making them work that excited me.

I have to always be making something as I can't stand to just sit and watch TV. I love the lathe becasue it allows me to make things in either a short or long time frame depending on my mood. But, also a lot depends on the wood you are able to get. Some wood is too nice to alter and should stand on its own while other (i.e. cottonwood) is just so darn ugly or bland it needs something done to it so it will be more that firewood or practice. I like to do things to some of my turnings if for no other reason than using them as the pallate for learning other techniques (i.e. pyrography, paint, piercing, etc.).

If we all liked the same things it would be a really boring place. Everyone has different talents and different tastes. We should accept what a person likes to do to a turning. I personally get tired of bowls but like hollow forms but still like to turn a bowl once in a while. I get bored doing the same things for very long. Guess I have ADD.

Vernon

My interest in amateur radio has been much the same. Ads a teenager, I modified a surplus BC-454 for 80 meters and then later built a cubical quad (NOT for 80 meters) using a topped pine tree as the "tower". The hobby led to a career in engineering and then, in retirement, I derive as much satisfaction from modifying my lathe as actually using it to turn something.

 

[Marc Himes]

I think of myself as an advanced beginner having been turning for about 4 years. I still get enthralled with the beauty of wood and the beauty of simple and complex shapes. For me the process is just as important as the finished product, similar to fly fishing where casting my fly into the right spot on the first try is a reward in and of itself. Making a good cut with the gouge, shear scraping the outside of a bowl to a fine finish, turning a series of similar beads, making the inner radius of a bowl smooth and related well to the outside are still challenges and very satisfying when done well. I also like to color and texture my pieces, doing something a little different. It's the total experience that gets me and gives me pleasure and contentment while pushing me to do more. Is it art? Not for me to say. The lathe is a tool, my favorite tool and has given me more pleasure than any tool I have ever used.

 

[Dave Bowers]

I would correct it to say that for some, turning "normal" is boring to them. Sure, I turn normal, alot, and then do alot of coloring and glass for it. But even where I am today, is different from my start 15 years ago and my future 15 years from now. For the most part, we will still all turn "normal" then manipulate.

I guess I have never understood the fixation with trying to delineate the traditional vs manipulated or craft vs art or all turned or barely turned. That is probably why I think of the lathe as just another tool to get me where I want to go (today).

Steve, I agree with what you say. Everyone goes the road they want to. I'm interested to see where I'll be in 15 years. I don't like it when someone has produced a fantastic bowl with great lines and form, grain, wood, etc... and it maybe gets downplayed because it's an open bowl. I haven't totally figured out the fixation stated above either. Maybe people are trying to set themselves apart or making it more acceptable for what they do with their work. Either way, I'm always interested in the end product, as long as the producer is happy with his/her creation.

 

[Martin Braun]

... as long as the producer is happy with his/her creation.

That's what I think. I love doing utilitarian pieces. I love doing art/decorative pieces. I enjoy using the lathe exclusively for some pieces. I enjoy carving some pieces by hand. As long as I'm making a piece that I think should exist, it's all good.

 

[Duff Bement]

I like to make something usefull and fun. IMO God make all my stuff beautifull before I start, I just do my best to unwrap it.

Duff

 

[Brent@TurnRobust]

Of course a lathe is just a tool and I think all you guys need a new one.

 

[john lucas]

No Brent, we need a really nice new one. Kind of like a Robust. A lathe is just a tool but then I hate to have a tool that doesn't do the job. That's why I bought the Powermatic and drool over the Robust.