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Agreement???

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This is from the MAG web site. Does anyone know anything about this??

"Below is the e-mail that I received this morning (Saturday Aug. 7) from the AAW president, Tom Wirsing."​

Curtis Thompson​

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Wirsing
To: Tom Wirsing
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 10:08 AM
Subject: We have an Agreement!​


Good morning all,​

The AAW and Mary Lacer have reached an agreement!​

The agreement follows the framework of the settlement offered on July 30th. There is some “paperwork†required before the agreement becomes official, including a written statement from the MAG stating that their proxy drive has ended and requesting the AAW cancel the August 28th meeting. Until such time as all the paperwork is in place, we will leave our proxy site up and running, but we will make no further announcements to the membership about the site.​

I wish to thank all of you who have supported the AAW, have posted your name on the AAW proxy web site, and signed the proxy. Our list of supporters, which included so many prominent woodturners and collectors, made it clear to the MAG that the AAW had many influential and committed supporters. This was an important factor in bringing Mary back to the negotiating table and ending the divisiveness. Thank you very much for your support.​

With warm regards,​

Tom​
 
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I sure hope this is for real. Almost made me cry when I read it.

I join you in that hope.
May I add to that the hope that we can use this incident to all of our best interests, personally and as an organization.
AAW is a microcosm of our National government and this points out the need for us to be aware and be involved in that governance to at least TRY to insure that we get the style and substance of governance that we want.
Let's actually learn about our BoD candidates, ask them questions about their views on pertinent AAW issues, get informed and then VOTE.

(mumbling to myself - sure glad I didn't buy that airline ticket)
 
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An agreement in principle has been reached between Mary Lacer and the AAW Board of Directors. While formalizing and signing this agreement has yet to occur, it certainly is good news that a resolution to recent association divisiveness can now wind down and we can get back to our favorite pastime, woodturning. Go to the MAG website to read our message http://memberactiongroup.com/
 
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Do you know

Bill, A settlement is very welcome news. Do you know or can you say if one of the provisions is to remove all mention of the incident from the forum boards? I don't want to see this whole thing rehashed but feel if that is the case it is a slap at the general membership but should not be a killer to the settlement.
 

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Do you know or can you say if one of the provisions is to remove all mention of the incident from the forum boards? ...

It is not in the provisions, but I am thinking about it.
 
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Do you know or can you say if one of the provisions is to remove all mention of the incident from the forum boards? I don't want to see this whole thing rehashed but feel if that is the case it is a slap at the general membership but should not be a killer to the settlement.

I don't believe it should be removed, it will serve as a reminder that the AAW belongs to the members and not a chosen few.
 
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Don't remove from forum

It is not in the provisions, but I am thinking about it.

Steve,
Please don't remove these discusssions from the forum. We should keep them as a reminder to people. Those who do not learn form history are doomed to repeat it.

I'm glad an agreement has been reached. I hope that it will manage to heal the various falling outs, loss of friendship, there have been over the past few weeks.
 

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remove the posts

Steve,

1. Much of the Damage done to Mary was through the forum.

2. The content on the forum was distorted by the emotions and experiences of the posters. Very few posts had unbiased factual content. As such it has little value as an historical archive.

3. Everyone who wished, got their say.

4. Time to heal

Thanks for being a great moderator.
Al
 
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Do you know or can you say if one of the provisions is to remove all mention of the incident from the forum boards?

It is not in the provisions, but I am thinking about it.

I would think that having this information on the record (including the behavior of those of us who were less than appropriate from time to time) should serve as a cautionary tale.
I am also concerned about the censorship resulting from having the whole dialogue "disappeared." I think that we are big enough as individuals and as an Association to face up to what we have said, how we have said it and who we have said it to...
The highest likelihood is that few if any will bother to read the stuff once this is over...

I mean really, how many of us had bothered to read the ByLaws before this whole thing blew up? And THAT was/is IMPORTANT in the grander scheme of things.
 
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I'm A Little Nervous!

I checked the "MAG" site, and on the front page is a current update stating that an agreement has been reached. It also says that the MAG proxy will not go forward. In searching the site, It seems that they have removed the proxy page(s) a certain sign of good faith.

I then went to the AAW home page and the "Support The AAW" site and found nothing of the kind.
To the contrary, there was no mention of an agreement on either site and the proxy pages were up and operational on the "STAAW" site.

MAYBE I'm just paranoid, but that is a bit unsettling to me.
 
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I checked the "MAG" site, and on the front page is a current update stating that an agreement has been reached. It also says that the MAG proxy will not go forward. In searching the site, It seems that they have removed the proxy page(s) a certain sign of good faith.

I then went to the AAW home page and the "Support The AAW" site and found nothing of the kind.
To the contrary, there was no mention of an agreement on either site and the proxy pages were up and operational on the "STAAW" site.

MAYBE I'm just paranoid, but that is a bit unsettling to me.

George,

If you'll reread the very first post in this thread, you'll see this as part of Tom's quoted message:

"The agreement follows the framework of the settlement offered on July 30th. There is some “paperwork†required before the agreement becomes official, including a written statement from the MAG stating that their proxy drive has ended and requesting the AAW cancel the August 28th meeting. Until such time as all the paperwork is in place, we will leave our proxy site up and running, but we will make no further announcements to the membership about the site." (Emphasis added.)
Or, in other words, there were some details that needed to be worked out. Once those details were taken care of, the AAW would pull down its proxy site. One of those details (per Tom's message) was a written statement from the MAG that it was canceling its proxy drive and asking that the August 28th meeting be canceled. I suppose, but have no inside information, that another detail is Mary signing a legally binding agreement and delivering it to the AAW. Since it's the weekend, it may not have been possible for the paperwork to have been signed and delivered, yet.
 
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I would suggest if it is removed, it not be deleted for possible future legal reasons.

This software has the capability of moving it from public viewing while maintaining it for records.
 
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"The agreement follows the framework of the settlement offered on July 30th. There is some “paperwork†required before the agreement becomes official, including a written statement from the MAG stating that their proxy drive has ended and requesting the AAW cancel the August 28th meeting. Until such time as all the paperwork is in place, we will leave our proxy site up and running, but we will make no further announcements to the membership about the site." (Emphasis added.)
Or, in other words, there were some details that needed to be worked out. Once those details were taken care of, the AAW would pull down its proxy site. One of those details (per Tom's message) was a written statement from the MAG that it was canceling its proxy drive and asking that the August 28th meeting be canceled. I suppose, but have no inside information, that another detail is Mary signing a legally binding agreement and delivering it to the AAW. Since it's the weekend, it may not have been possible for the paperwork to have been signed and delivered, yet.

Yeah, that's why I'm worried... MAG has already acted on information, seemingly from Mary about an agreement having been reached, and AAW gives the impression that nothing has changed -

Except for the limited distribution email.

It seems like MAG trusts Mary but "Support The AAW" doesn't get the same information or doesn't trust the BoD. Just seems like both sides ought to lower their weapons at the same time.
 
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settlement

Were things so easy as an announcement on this forum by Tom Wirsing, President of AAW. I am uncomfortable too, as I have difficulty in the trust area. Indeed more than a simple request for meeting cancellation by MAG is involved. The outstanding proxies remain intact..The AAW proxy does not contain a termination date--thus Tom holds proxy power for eleven months from the grant date. Mag form does have a proxy termination date, but remains in force until and unless cancelled by the grantor. Just a little problem---Both are good through the St. Paul symposium date--interesting.
 
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I have read Mr. Wirsing's announcement and the home page of the MAG site. It sounds very much as if the termination of the ED has been settled but that wasn't the only problem brought to light by this conflict.

With the "proxy fight" called off, does this mean that the By-Laws, which were agreed by both sides to be in disarray, not be fixed? If that is the case, an opportunity has been lost by the membership to repair the By-Laws that desperately need fixing.

Does that not bother any body else but me?
c--
 
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With the "proxy fight" called off, does this mean that the By-Laws, which were agreed by both sides to be in disarray, not be fixed? If that is the case, an opportunity has been lost by the membership to repair the By-Laws that desperately need fixing.
No it doesn't mean that.
As of now, and as announced in several places including here on this forum, there is an eight member committee working on bylaw amendments.
It's a diverse group with no less concern for the state of the bylaws currently than you have yourself.
If you check the announcement I've linked you will see that you are encouraged to email any specific suggestions you may have to a linked email address. (I'd reproduce it here for you but can't seem to make it work right).

It's a substantial task and will take a while. The end result will be that the proposed amendments will be submitted to the entire membership for approval.

Not all committee members monitor this forum regularly so it's best to send your thoughts directly to the committee.
Feel free to PM me too, if you have any questions or concerns about what we are trying to do, and why. Nothing's happening in secret on any level at all with this effort.
 
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Were things so easy as an announcement on this forum by Tom Wirsing, President of AAW. I am uncomfortable too, as I have difficulty in the trust area. Indeed more than a simple request for meeting cancellation by MAG is involved. The outstanding proxies remain intact..The AAW proxy does not contain a termination date--thus Tom holds proxy power for eleven months from the grant date. Mag form does have a proxy termination date, but remains in force until and unless cancelled by the grantor. Just a little problem---Both are good through the St. Paul symposium date--interesting.

Royce, the AAW proxy is also good unless cancelled by the grantor (or 11 months, whichever comes first). So, anyone who signed an AAW proxy can cancel it if they choose to.
 
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Royce, the AAW proxy is also good unless cancelled by the grantor (or 11 months, whichever comes first). So, anyone who signed an AAW proxy can cancel it if they choose to.

Or they can choose to leave it in full force in case anyone's thinking about raising a postponed proxy fight at the regular annual meeting in St, Paul. :rolleyes:
 
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That's a relief.

Mr. Moore. Thank you for the courtesy of a reply. I am much relieved and reassured by your post. I don't envy you and the rest of the committee the daunting job ahead of you but am grateful to you and the others for taking it on. It is sorely needed.

Good luck to you and the rest of the committee.
c--
 
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RE: AAW Proxy

It seems there seems to be a bit of confusion out there. My reading of the specific proxy posted upon the website is limited in scope. It is specifically... to authorize the President to vote on my (your) behalf at the special meeting on Aug 28 (if that meeting does indeed take place).
That's all. Or so it seems to me.

Respectfully,
Pope
 
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Breaking news

From several sources this afternoon:

Breaking news for AAW: Mary Lacer has signed an agreement and release contract with the AAW. One of the requirements is that the MAG needs to end their proxy drive and to request, in writing, a cancellation of the Aug 28th general membership meeting. So, still a bit up in the air, but definite progress to report.
 
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A head of he curve again Andi? I hope you are correct but I don't see any announcement on AAW site or the Support AAW site. Your last breaking news was the negotiations had failed.
 
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I have a few questions? Why are there a chosen few that get these emails and not all of the membership? Does the average John or Jane Woodturner not rate any notifications? Are we here to just pay dues and get the journal?

I for one am getting kind of fed up with being treated as a second class member. Are there any other members that feel the same way?
 
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I have a few questions? Why are there a chosen few that get these emails and not all of the membership? Does the average John or Jane Woodturner not rate any notifications? Are we here to just pay dues and get the journal?

I for one am getting kind of fed up with being treated as a second class member. Are there any other members that feel the same way?

Good grief.

Would you guys just get over it? ("Mom loves me best! Well, Dad loves me best, so there!" - yes, it seems childish to me.)

I received this news along with several others that have been posting information to a large readership, and it was simultaneously sent to MAG constituents. I vetted my posting of this information with Tom Wirsing, and he didn't have a problem with me sharing the news. The AAW board was waiting for some agreement from MAG before posting it on the AAW site, but it's good to have this news straight away, don't you agree?
 
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Good grief.

Would you guys just get over it? ("Mom loves me best! Well, Dad loves me best, so there!" - yes, it seems childish to me.)

I received this news along with several others that have been posting information to a large readership, and it was simultaneously sent to MAG constituents. I vetted my posting of this information with Tom Wirsing, and he didn't have a problem with me sharing the news. The AAW board was waiting for some agreement from MAG before posting it on the AAW site, but it's good to have this news straight away, don't you agree?


Andi . . . you just don't get it. You can trivialize Marvin's post with a catty comment ("Mom loves me best!") but your post is indicative of one of the main issues held forth by those who are upset with the Board. It's a matter of everyone . . . from the production turners, to the artists, to the brown and turn rank and file members . . . everyone . . . having a seat at the table. AAW is an egalitarian community. When decisions are made . . . we should all be a part of the process. Please don't treat us in a demeaning fashion. The announcement should have come from the President of the Board of Directors. Thank you for listening.
 
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There is no official announcement yet - everyone please settle down. If you feel compelled to post something on this subject - draft it out, then take a long walk, or turn something pretty - before you hit the enter key.
 
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I have a few questions? Why are there a chosen few that get these emails and not all of the membership? Does the average John or Jane Woodturner not rate any notifications? Are we here to just pay dues and get the journal?

I for one am getting kind of fed up with being treated as a second class member. Are there any other members that feel the same way?

Marvin,

I'm confident both the board and the leadership of the MAG have been communicating with members who expressed an interest in supporting one side or the other. Does this surprise you? Would it surprise you to learn that board members and MAG leaders might choose to share news with those they've been working closely with before making a public announcement? It seems to me this is nothing more than a common courtesy shown to those one has worked closely with. It's not properly viewed as a slight of anyone else. Mary didn't call to give me a heads up on her decision, but I'll bet she called a few others. The fact Mary informed others before announcing her decision doesn't and shouldn't offend me. The fact Tom choose to clue in some of his supporters on some important news shouldn't offend you.

More importantly, we've been through a very bruising battle. Most of us claimed we abhorred the damage the battle was doing to the AAW. Now that the battle is over, don't we all have a duty to try and heal the wounds? I suggest we all try to forget which side each of us may have been on during this fight and to try and greet each other as friends. I also suggest we try to over look any imagined slights and to start assuming the best of intentions all around. Someone told me privately that he would assume bad faith on the part of the board until they proved him wrong. That's not a recipe for repairing the breach. We need an extra abundance of forgiveness and good will. I'm willing to go that extra mile. Are you?
 
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And That, David, is your answer.

Nothing you say or do will make any difference, so stop beating your head against the wall and move on to something constructive.
 
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If David Walser calls you petty, wear it as a badge of honor (I would).:eek: You don't want to "get along" on anything other than your own terms.

George,

You've proudly proclaimed that you follow an improved version of the Golden Rule -- you do unto others as they would have you do unto them. You fell down on the job this time. You didn't respond to my post in the manner in which I'd hoped you would. In case you're wondering, I'm wanting you and everyone else on this forum to act in a conciliatory fashion towards each other.
 
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Seriously? Just how petty are you willing to be over this thing? How petty are you willing to have the rest of us see you as being? Because, frankly, I'm willing to try and meet you more than half way, but if you're not even willing to try... What's the point of even listening to your complaints if you've decided you will not be satisfied? I don't know how to get along with someone who doesn't want to get along.

David, I don't see it as petty. I suspect there is intense disappointment the proxy fight does not appear to be moving forward. They were looking to pull off a coup and settle the perceived wrongs they feel have been done to them. Additionally, to those who were looking to upend the current board, an agreement would indicate that their concerns were not sufficiently important to the "side" they were so fervently supporting to force the general meeting. I think the only way the AAW leadership can respond is to hear their concerns and make sure they are reasonably addressed.

That Andi posted her news doesn't personally bother me, however, I would prefer these types of announcements come from (or be quickly followed by) an official source. Someone posted a day or so ago about a supposed agreement too, and I watched pretty closely for something official from a player. I'm still waiting...
 
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Owen,

I wasn't part of MAG or any other organization in this mess. I certainly didn't care for the BODs chosen method of operation. I find your attitude of using phrases like supposed "coup" insulting even to those who aren't and weren't members or supporters of MAG.

Whether you personally like it or not, a portion of the membership disagreed with the method and the action the BODs used. If you can't accept and grant others the right to have a differing opinion and to treat them respectfully, I suggest you look up the word "bigot" in the dictionary.

As long as you and others continue to use insulting and caustic phrases like that, whether from carelessness or intentionally, this organization won't heal.
 
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Enough Is Enough

Hey, Kids,

I am just one of those Joe turners. I have been watching the fight on the AAW forum over the Mary Lacer debacle without saying a thing. But I am now compelled to say something. I am sick and tired of you kids fighting. Have you seen the latest on the AAW homepage? Mary and the board reached an agreement yesterday, August 10. The fight is over. Let's get back in the shop (studio) and enjoy some turning. I did yesterday in the Texas 100º weather.

Andy Chen
College Station, TX
Member #9277
 
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Hey, Kids,

I am just one of those Joe turners. I have been watching the fight on the AAW forum over the Mary Lacer debacle without saying a thing. But I am now compelled to say something. I am sick and tired of you kids fighting. Have you seen the latest on the AAW homepage? Mary and the board reached an agreement yesterday, August 10. The fight is over. Let's get back in the shop (studio) and enjoy some turning. I did yesterday in the Texas 100º weather.

Andy Chen
College Station, TX
Member #9277

Andy, I agree, as has been written
A Pox on both their houses

My only other suggestion is that none of the principals, on either side should ever be elected (or re-elected) to the BOD
 
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Owen,

I wasn't part of MAG or any other organization in this mess. I certainly didn't care for the BODs chosen method of operation. I find your attitude of using phrases like supposed "coup" insulting even to those who aren't and weren't members or supporters of MAG.

Ken, you appear to have a view that a coup is always a negative term. When I looked it up I found:
"a notable or successful stroke or move : it was a major coup to get such a prestigious contract."
I found that to be fitting in the MAG context. If the proxy vote would have favored MAG, it would have been a notable or successful move.

I wholeheartedly agree that every "side" needs to be carefully and respectfully heard and considered.
 
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