1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. ATTENTION FORUM MEMBERS!

    Guest, if you have not yet updated your forum bookmark to a secure log in connection, please delete your unsecure book and add the following secure bookmark: https://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php

    You can dismiss this notice by clicking the X in the upper right of the notice box.

    Dismiss Notice

Common sense

Discussion in 'Woodturning Health & Safety' started by Emiliano Achaval, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2,237
    Location (City & State):
    Maui, Hawaii
    Home Page:
    I was giving a lesson yesterday to a beginner. I thought I had covered most safety topics. Then I noticed when he had the blank on the chuck, after finishing the tenon, he was standing right in the line of fire and was reaching for the on switch. I told him, well, I yelled at him, No!! I realized that what it is second nature for someone that has been turning for a while it is not so clear for someone just starting. He jokingly said that had the blank flown off the lathe and hit him, would have been a great lesson. I had to agree, that was probably how I learned not to stand there...
    He was also amazed at how many things you check before you even turn on the lathe...
     
  2. John Torchick

    John Torchick

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,650
    Location (City & State):
    Cleveland, Tennessee
    Good advice. I always stand off to the side when I chuck an irregular piece of wood in the lathe. Lyle Jamieson advocates a switch on the headstock end- you can shut off the lathe and slow the lathe at the same time. Had a piece come off at low speed but didn't have a chance to slow the piece. Bounced off the wall while watching it spin and scrape my elbow.
     
    Emiliano Achaval likes this.
  3. Bob Sheppard

    Bob Sheppard

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    152
    Location (City & State):
    Wanaque, NJ
    It took me a long time, but I've learned to listen to those voices in my head saying "Stop". I'll step away, and reassess what I'm doing, And usually save myself some aggravation, or injury.
     
  4. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2,237
    Location (City & State):
    Maui, Hawaii
    Home Page:
    I always say that it's very important to listen to your gut feeling, inner voice, whatever it is that warns you about something dangerous.
     
    Christian Radcliff likes this.
  5. Bruce Perry

    Bruce Perry

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Messages:
    18
    Location (City & State):
    Morrison, CO
    The first thing I've been doing in my beginner level classes is getting everyone to put a name tag on their right shoulder, where I can see them. We have five or six beginners at the same time. Some day I'll take the Dale Carnegie course and my memory will become useful. (I hope)

    Then we spend the next several minutes, me apologizing because I'm lousy with remembering names, and pointing out that if they hear their own name loudly it means to stop, whatever they are doing.

    Five or six people rounding spindles makes a great deal of noise, and sometimes "loudly" means what I was taught in my drill Sargent days (ROTC 52 years back) to call "command voice". You have to penetrate both the fog of noise and the intense concentration a new turner almost always has going on, so there is no way around being loud in that circumstance.

    There always seems to be someone who, having been shown the easy and safe way to do something simple, misses some detail and is about to throw a big splinter, or the whole chunk of wood, at themselves or someone else.

    This couple of minutes at the beginning of classes has kept my injury rate at 0, the only score worth having.

    I've yet to have a student offended by this, most of us like not to bleed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  6. John Torchick

    John Torchick

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,650
    Location (City & State):
    Cleveland, Tennessee
    Nothing wrong with having the name tags. I couldn't remember anything until I took the Sam Carnegie course.
     
    Emiliano Achaval likes this.
  7. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    6,561
    Location (City & State):
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:
    Had some similar experiences to those recounted by @Bruce Perry.
    when we did kids classes we would put the names in big letters on their face shields - so that they could get the one adjusted for their head.

    It does not take too many classes to realize that some students don’t retain much of what was previously covered.
    it’s just that so often they are flooded with new things that they have no previous experience to build on.
    When everything is new it is so important not to tell them too much.

    I had the privilege of working with a dozen big name instructors we brought into Maryland hall and few in my shop in Florida. Almost every 5 day “advanced” class began with turning a simple bowl. This give the instructor and the assistant time to evaluate each student’s level, fine tune basic techniques, get their tools sharpened properly and show them how to sharpen to get the same results. By the start of day 2 everyone has had a successful bowl under their belt and they have a vocabulary and skill set to build on during the rest of the week.
     
  8. Matthew Ferriter

    Matthew Ferriter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Messages:
    75
    Location (City & State):
    Chapel Hill, NC
    I got into the habit while working for years with a small Sherline lathe of not only shutting off the power, but also reducing the speed to its lowest setting when moving things around. That way there are no fewer surprises when turning it on, possibly a few days later.
     
    Emiliano Achaval and hockenbery like this.
  9. Christian Radcliff

    Christian Radcliff

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2020
    Messages:
    14
    Location (City & State):
    Spokane, WA
    Surreal, that happened today. I was drilling the back of a bowl blank with a forstner bit I stupidly did not secure down well enough. I had my left had on the wood to keep it from moving. My brain said (Hey! Maybe you should clamp that down more!) I didn't listen and the drill skipped off and slit the back of my thumb open. Lots of blood. Lesson learned. Glad it wasn't worse.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2020
    Emiliano Achaval likes this.
  10. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    6,561
    Location (City & State):
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:
    Happens to all of us more often than we like to admit.

    Hope you recover quickly.
     
  11. Lamar Wright

    Lamar Wright

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2017
    Messages:
    667
    Location (City & State):
    Jasper, Alabama
    Very good advice!
     
  12. Tom De Winter

    Tom De Winter

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2020
    Messages:
    76
    Location (City & State):
    Quad Cities, IL
    I witnessed a small 5" bowl come flying off the chuck last Monday at our clubs Open Turning session. I heard the catch and looked up in time to see the bowl bounce off of the turners face shield. Would have been ugly had he not been wearing it.
     
  13. Roger Wiegand

    Roger Wiegand

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2018
    Messages:
    312
    Location (City & State):
    Wayland, MA
    Home Page:
    I keep my power and speed control switches down closer to the tailstock end since that is where I stand while working. The common lathe design that has you cross the firing zone to access controls at the headstock makes no sense at all to me. (I have a second "kill" switch at the headstock, so I can stop the lathe from either side.
     
  14. robo hippy

    robo hippy

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,934
    Location (City & State):
    Eugene, OR
    Some times I hear the voices in my head, some times not..... I am wanting to get more students in my shop since I have as much fun teaching as I do turning. As an individual instructor, I don't really want more than one or two students at a time, at least not until I know how well they turn and how safety conscious they are. Having more than that seems to make it impossible to keep an eye on every one, as well as giving the student the attention they need. As they progress, then they need less hands on instruction.

    robo hippy
     
    Christian Radcliff likes this.
  15. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    6,561
    Location (City & State):
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:
    My problem is there is

    1. A helpful agent sitting in the left shoulder asking “do you really want to do this” And

    2 An egomaniacal agent sitting on the right should saying go ahead give it a try the laws of physics are just suggestions for those with weak character
     
    Christian Radcliff likes this.
  16. Arkriver

    Arkriver

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    94
    Location (City & State):
    Pueblo West, CO
    Common sense is hard to come by. You have to do a lot of dumb things that didn't kill or mame you before learn some common sense. This especially applies to kids and we all retain a little kid in us. Allyn
     
    Ron Solfest and hockenbery like this.
  17. Bob Sheppard

    Bob Sheppard

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    152
    Location (City & State):
    Wanaque, NJ
    Whenever I've bled on something, I always hope that no one likes the color, so I don't have to give more. lol
     
    Tom Gall likes this.
  18. Robert D Evans

    Robert D Evans

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Messages:
    131
    Location (City & State):
    Hoschton, GA
    Every scar I have has a lesson attached.
     
    Christian Radcliff likes this.
  19. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    649
    Location (City & State):
    La Grange, IL
    This is a really good suggestion and super easy to do with a 120v lathe.
    20200430_1414081.jpg
     
  20. brian horais

    brian horais

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2014
    Messages:
    98
    Location (City & State):
    Knoxville, TN
    Home Page:
    I have a pet peeve about turning down my variable speed control to zero revolutions every time I want to stop the lathe. That way when I turn the lathe on, I know I won't be surprised. I mentioned this to an instructor once (who will go un-named) and he said 'you are going to wear out your speed control'. My answer was I would rather wear out my speed control than get smacked in the head when I turn on my lathe and forgot that the speed control was set for a high RPM.
     
    Christian Radcliff likes this.
  21. brian horais

    brian horais

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2014
    Messages:
    98
    Location (City & State):
    Knoxville, TN
    Home Page:
    I see that Matthew Ferriter and I are in full agreement
     
  22. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,886
    Location (City & State):
    Nebraska
    Using the potentiometer (speed control) on a regular basis is a good practice and will increase the life of the component, each time you rotate the potentiometer from low to high you are wiping the carbon build up off of the contact surfaces inside the potentiometer. If you leave it in one position all of the time you can get a build up of carbon in one spot creating an erratic functioning speed control, with a dead spot.
     
  23. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,886
    Location (City & State):
    Nebraska
    Common sense for men usually kicks in when you reach your early thirties, prior to that age you are invincible to pain and injury and know all things ever conceived by mankind..
     
    Christian Radcliff likes this.
  24. Tom Gall

    Tom Gall

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    249
    Location (City & State):
    Hillsborough, NJ
    I only do that when I'm finished turning for the day....down to a low rpm - not totally off (I also pull the plug). That will avoid any unforeseen mishaps the next time I come back to the lathe. If the rpm was totally "off" I might think something was wrong with the lathe and do some unnecessary electrical diagnosis! :( Also, when turning I prefer when the lathe returns to my previous working speed (don't have an rpm readout). :)
     
  25. Bob Sheppard

    Bob Sheppard

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    152
    Location (City & State):
    Wanaque, NJ
    After a power surge blew out the VFD on my Jet 1642 several years ago, I began unplugging it. Its a quick and easy way to protect my lathe from another expensive repair.
     
  26. RichColvin

    RichColvin

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Messages:
    444
    Location (City & State):
    Dublin, OH
    Home Page:
    Brian,

    It’s more likely that using the eStop to start/stop the lathe will cause that switch to fail, than using the speed switch (which is either a potentiometer or a rotary encoder) will cause that to fail. And the speed switch is much cheaper to replace than the eStop switch.

    Rich
     
    Bill Boehme likes this.
  27. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    11,356
    Location (City & State):
    Dalworthington Gardens, TX
    Home Page:
    Many if not most of the higher quality lathes use conductive plastic potentiometers which have a very high MTTF ... much longer expected life than the MTTF of the typical low-cost switches frequently found on smaller lathes made in Pacific Rim countries. Conductive plastic potentiometers are excellent for use where they are subjected to high vibration levels and frequent adjustment.

    Most other lathes with electronic speed control use carbon film potentiometers which are old technology dating back before WWII. They have good reliability but don't do well in a vibration environment or where they are subjected to frequent adjustment. In the analog days, they were best suited for volume controls on radios and televisions. The typical failure mode is where the wipers would wear paths in the carbon film. They tend to get increasingly noisy with age.

    Wirewound potentiometers are the absolute worst type for speed control. They are best suited for set-and-forget applications. It was surprising to find out that Grizzly used them on their variable speed lathes. I'm guessing that they may have switched to one of the other two types of potentiometers by now.
     
    Dennis Weiner likes this.
  28. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    206
    Location (City & State):
    Eads, TN
    Home Page:
    I moved the controls on my Jet to a control box at the tail stock end. On a sturdy cable so can move it around a bit based on what I'm doing. I never have understood why the controls on most lathes require you to reach around the turning piece to change speed or stop the machine if something goes wrong. The last thing I want to do is reach around and lean over in front of the huge blank that's about the come off the machine to find the kill switch. I also use my speed control vs the on off button. The only time I really use the on/off button is doing hollow forms where I've found a speed that works for what I'm doing and have to start and stop a lot to clear chips out.
     
  29. GRJensen

    GRJensen

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    188
    Location (City & State):
    Bay Settlement, WI
    I have often wondered the same ... I have come to the conclusion that either the people who designed the lathe have never actually used one, or it is a financial decision (cheaper to put the controls at or near the motor to reduce manufacturing costs). That was actually one of the determining factors when I bought my PM3520C ... the 'pendant' comes in very handy.
     
  30. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    6,561
    Location (City & State):
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:
    The best set up for me is to have controls at both the headstock and tailstock.

    I am a little spoiled by the ONEWAY controls. The standard controls are on a pivoting pendant near eye level that can swing from headstock to tailstock. So easy to see and use while maintaining good posture.
    I got the magnetic control box with an off/on that I can position anywhere along the lathe.

    A 20 year old General 260 I bought used for classes has all the controls on a magnetic box than can go anywhere.
    A good second choice but if I used the lathe full time I would want a second box with an on/off.
     
  31. robo hippy

    robo hippy

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,934
    Location (City & State):
    Eugene, OR
    The Vicmark shut off bar makes more sense than ever. The only problem I have with the shut off button being on the right side is that I hold my tools with my right hand, and that means if I have to do an emergency turn off, I have to switch the tool to my left hand and then hit the button. I suppose I could learn to use my left hand for that...

    robo hippy
     

Share This Page