1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. ATTENTION FORUM MEMBERS!

    Guest, if you have not yet updated your forum bookmark to a secure log in connection, please delete your unsecure book and add the following secure bookmark: https://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php

    You can dismiss this notice by clicking the X in the upper right of the notice box.

    Dismiss Notice

Design Advice

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Brandon Sloan, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. Brandon Sloan

    Brandon Sloan

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2019
    Messages:
    145
    Location (City & State):
    Victoria, Texas
    Something that has stuck with me is the comment “it looks like you ran out of wood” when referring to a vase I had made. I didn’t know the exact meaning, but I assumed it meant that the base was poorly done. Is there something I can do to make the base look like I didn’t just run out of wood? 05DB0AF2-8642-451F-B4CD-499947CF77D6.jpeg A75FE6F7-7A53-4BD7-8C02-DE7E786BA1AD.jpeg 338BEAB8-D03F-4D66-BFF0-AD8E74DE7B40.jpeg
     
    Emiliano Achaval likes this.
  2. Ron Solfest

    Ron Solfest

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    86
    Location (City & State):
    TN
    I’ll start, but others more knowledgeable will join in. If it were me, I think I’d take about half the base off to shorten it overall and narrow the base and feather into vase, including narrowing center of the vase a little, so that it was a smooth gentle continuous curve going up and gently rolling over to transition going in to the top. With the widest point of the vase being just under 2/3 of the way up.
    Not sure if that makes sense, but my 2 cents...
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  3. Ron Solfest

    Ron Solfest

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    86
    Location (City & State):
    TN
    Forgot to mention, very pretty piece of wood !!
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  4. Richard Coers

    Richard Coers

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,026
    Location (City & State):
    Peoria, Illinois
    I use a Fibonacci caliper to set the apex of the main curve. That would place the apex closer to the top. I also prefer the top to smaller than the base to give it visual weight. Many prefer not to follow design guides though.
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  5. Ed French

    Ed French

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Location (City & State):
    Redmond, Washington
  6. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location (City & State):
    Maui, Hawaii
    Home Page:
    Maybe carve some feet.
     

    Attached Files:

    Greg Norman and Brandon Sloan like this.
  7. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    7,334
    Location (City & State):
    Cookeville TN USA
    Not a bad vase. .most customers would.love it. If you want to get picky and take it to the next level there are several.things I would change. First is the bottom. It just stops the flow of your eyes. I would eliminate it and just carry the flow of the curve all the way to the bottom. There is a slight flat area around the bulge. I personally try to never have a flat on a curve. Then raise the widest area slightly so it might follow golden rectangle.principals.
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  8. Dean

    Dean

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Location (City & State):
    Waco, TX
    Brandon I agree with the golden rule principles suggested. Work to make the surface facet free. Fantastic piece of wood. Bring the bottom diameter down and present the finish of the bottom as very light and up from the table. As suggested you could could go simply smaller or go with the carved feet idea but in the end it should look like is is light on the table.
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  9. Timothy Allen

    Timothy Allen

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2019
    Messages:
    93
    Location (City & State):
    NH and ME
    Learn something new everyday, this is awesome - Thanks!
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  10. Paul M. Kaplowitz

    Paul M. Kaplowitz

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    267
    Location (City & State):
    North Charleston, SC
    What John Lucas said
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  11. Clifton C

    Clifton C

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    432
    Location (City & State):
    Hampton Roads Virginia
    Beautiful piece of wood as others have mentioned. As John says
    . I think this piece merits the "next level. How to get there is the question. What some might call a "simple form" leaves you nowhere to hide. Which means, more difficult to pull off. Walking away is always my first step. Coming back, sometimes the areas that need attention jump out. As you've done, setting it upright helps, but sometimes the grain pattern can trick your eye. LED's cast a great shadow (think shadow puppets) and can show areas that need to be resolved. I have tried a long glue stick or other flexible item bent along the length of the form to help visualize the high and low spots, but I have better results using a straight edge, rocking it up and down the form. At this point I would also define the base (length). Cut in with a parting tool, not too deep, so you know where the piece stops. If the base is inside the ring of screws only part in about an 8th or so, enough so you can visualize. Not knowing where the base stops can throw off the final proportions. If the piece is going to taper into a foot, I would cut a small chamfer or quirk for a shadow line to add lift. Sorry for the ramble, I am most envious of that piece of wood, is there a story behind it?
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  12. Richard Coers

    Richard Coers

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,026
    Location (City & State):
    Peoria, Illinois
    “it looks like you ran out of wood” Could easily mean you still had bark in a couple of spots on the vase. I'm also conflicted when I see that. When the rest of the form has a sophisticated, polished shape, the bark can look out of place. On a primitive bowl, with a natural edge rim, it's a natural.
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  13. robo hippy

    robo hippy

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,874
    Location (City & State):
    Eugene, OR
    I don't do many hollow forms... The shape is very symmetrical. So, pretty much the same curve line from top to bottom. If that is the finished shape, and it is already hollowed out, then there is nothing you can do about it. The base does not look 'right' to me. I am one who does things by eye, and never measure things out. I don't have a natural eye for hollow forms, mostly due to lack of practice. For forms like this, that Fibonacci rule can help with design before you turn.

    robo hippy
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  14. John Tisdale

    John Tisdale

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Messages:
    233
    Location (City & State):
    Dallas, TX
    I agree with the John Lucas comments - you have a good design evolving.
    • how long and how big are the screws?
    • What is the pattern of the screws?
    • What is the MC of the wood?
    • How thick is the thinnest point?
    You have a bit of "problem solving" to do - I'd assess the odds at 90% masterpiece, 10% firewood
    • Finished piece to be the full length
    • Fair curved from top to bottom - no interruption, no bumps, no "non-fair" variations
    • A high luster finish, both wood and bark, will pop this piece - the negative space in the bark inclusion should be open
    SUGGESTION: First: If the thickness is maybe around 3/4" and the wood is not "dry", get it off the faceplate and let it dry a few months - I'm not familiar with the shrinkage factors of the species you're working with but it may not be a bad idea to boil it for about an hour before the drying process. When bone dry, use dark-brown epoxy to both secure the bark and to fill all small openings. Then onto a chuck - depending on your chuck, you should have room to mortise a dovetail and allow the chuck to hold in compression. The mortise can be shallow due to the other end held by either the live center or, if hollowing, a steady-rest. The mortise can be cut by putting the piece on a Kelton mandrel or similar.
    You are now ready for "final turning" - light cuts with super sharp tools
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  15. Brandon Sloan

    Brandon Sloan

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2019
    Messages:
    145
    Location (City & State):
    Victoria, Texas
    C5FFA665-B2E5-447D-906C-58C1E4583F37.jpeg 47104127-B63C-49C2-9AB8-EAD05482D392.jpeg 4E993BF7-9C9F-42A0-B483-8D0DAB6E8D4E.jpeg 7C0512DA-91C8-4BA1-BF24-FEC72699A67B.jpeg 09201EBD-1339-4E2D-979C-60E3B1428B2E.jpeg 50019C11-E37E-4ED5-9F26-9F208C86AFC3.jpeg AA0619B8-5828-496E-B55D-79988011BB34.jpeg 3EDB2107-998D-4921-9032-5C50C197C408.jpeg First off, thank you for all the reply’s! It really cleared some things up for me. I’ve been practicing a lot of forms but I think I need to study up on design theory. This piece is rough hollowed to a little over an inch, so I can fix a few things but am limited. Most importantly, I have an idea of how to finish the base and great advice on how to approach future projects.

    This was a cut off from a large burl that I bought from a local logger. I’m in Fairbanks, Alaska currently. The only local wood I turn is Alaskan Paper Birch. It doesn’t grow very fast due to our extreme winters. We have a tourist trap up here called The Great Alaskan Bowl Company. The logger said he dropped off a truck load of burls at this business for store credit. He had 3 giant burls that showed up when the snow melted and wanted $50 bucks a piece. I bought the biggest one and as we loaded it up he sold me on the other two for $25 a piece. This was the first burl I ever processed. I knew I wanted one big bowl because I have never done anything over 12”. After trimming, I ended up with 3 pieces that are roughly 5” x 5” and 16” long plus the bowl blank that ended up being 16” x 4”.
     
  16. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    598
    Location (City & State):
    La Grange, IL
    I am going to throw out this suggestion for your consideration. Sketch out your design ideas on graph paper.

    I once joked to my club that I wouldn't turn a cylinder without a full size drawing. This isn't stretching the truth very much, I plan out most everything on paper first.

    But I also do a lot of sketching just to look at different ideas and study form. This is a really cheap way to explore subtle variations of a curve. It's way easier to erase and redraw a pencil line than to alert the curvature of wood. And you can buy graph paper in very large sizes so you can draw full size. I have a pad that is 17" x 22".
     
  17. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    6,492
    Location (City & State):
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:
    That is a terrific pearl of wisdom I will steal to use in a demo some time.

    Spindles usually have a scale drawing and story board for duplicates to get the diameters and heights of elements.

    hollow forms and bowls I have a vision of the shape, curves, heights of the rim, foot detail, curves, where the wide spot will be.
    The vision either comes from a sketch of the shape or a previous form that I have done. I have some favorite shapes.

    Spherical forms are fun because the Shape is given.

    I use Fibonacci ratios a lot. 1,2,3
    1,2 is the same as the rule of thirds,
    2,3 close to the golden mean....

    For hollow forms I like the wide part 1/3 up from the base, 2/3 up from the base, or 1/2 up from the base.
    With a flared rim on the HF 1-rim, 2- top curve, 3 bottom curve
     
  18. Ron Solfest

    Ron Solfest

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    86
    Location (City & State):
    TN
    Here’s a couple books you might look into (not sure why thy are rotated):
    D63B7F81-C0AD-4A8B-B720-28CAA2B16B63.jpeg A1BC82EF-29C9-46FF-99B7-0DB875DD49A4.jpeg
     
  19. Dean Center

    Dean Center

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,029
    Location (City & State):
    Bozeman, MT
    Boy how I wish I could sketch. Not only can I not sketch, I can't really see from a picture on paper what something is going to look like as a 3D object. So I've learned to make prototypes of important and/or one of a kind pieces. With some cheap poplar or alder held in my hand, I can assess it just fine. The piece in my avatar took 11 prototypes to figure out what I wanted and then learn the skills needed to make it. This was my last piece of pale enough wood. Not a very efficient process. How I wish I could sketch and see.
     

Share This Page