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Fyi 1.01

Discussion in 'AAW Information' started by George Guadiane, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. George Guadiane

    George Guadiane

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    John Van Domelen brought this to our attention:
    As a past perpetrator of less than elegant language on these threads, let me add this about that:
    I WAS WRONG as a member of AAW to have used language and phraseology intended to incite, inflame, insult and otherwise abuse people who "dared" to post equally uncouth opposing points of view.
    While my views have not changed significantly, my tactics will...

    Here's MY issue around this spiteful hurtful insulting dialogue that continues - unlike Ed Davidson, I'm not going to list the many specific transgressions made by the persons for whom I have become concerned, I'm just going to name the most prominent and my reasons for objection - Ron Sardo, Mark Mandell, David Walser have each engaged in (MUCH) less than elegant discourse.

    Each of them is hard at work rewriting the ByLaws, important work which we should respect. I, for one, hope that these changes reflect my concerns and desires for the "new and improved" AAW...
    Each of these gentlemen, and past president Al Hockenberry have recently engaged in intentional insult, baiting, taunting, misrepresentation and, and, and...
    As individual members of AAW, they certainly have the right to say what they will, how they will, to whom they want, because they feel like it (within the guidelines), BUT - as policy makers and representatives of AAW, to the membership, their behavior has been appalling and most certainly not in keeping with what I should be able to expect from said representatives. It is time for them to STOP communicating their vitriol. Certainly, they can and should continue to provide information to the membership, even the ones with whom they disagree, but they MUST do it in a civil, respectful manner.

    If we, members want this to stop, we need to take some course of action to see that we are taken seriously about this one thing (as a start).
    To that end, if this behavior continues, I will not renew my membership. While it may not matter to those few, it may mean something to others.

    Additionally, I would ask everyone else to "be the bigger person." If someone uses poor judgment in communicating towards us, it doesn't entitle us to respond in kind, nor does it excuse that kind of behavior. I'm really tired of it, myself - you???
    PLEASE make this a safe and pleasant place to talk about woodturning.
     
  2. davidwalser

    davidwalser

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    Has someone been posting mean and uncouth things in my name? I commented on the AAW Mailing List thread a grand total of one time (http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showpost.php?p=70203&postcount=98). Is this the kind of thing that you find beyond the pale? I hope not, 'cause I rewrote it several times to avoid casting any more wood onto the fire. If it is beyond the pale, I guess I'll just have to avoid posting anything because I'm certainly not a good judge at what will or will not be viewed as inflammatory.

    George, I endorse your sentiments if not your phraseology. Each of us, volunteer or not, should strive to avoid inciting others to anger. While part of my soul rebells at the basic unfairness of the suggestion that volunteers should be held to a higher standard of behavior, I agree that the suggestion is very practical. To this end, since I was asked to join the bylaws committee, I've striven to avoid participating in any flame wars. I've not been perfect in that regard, but I've tried.

    It would mean something to me. You are a good turner and I know I could learn a lot from you. You also strive to be a good man and I know I could learn a lot from you in that regard, too. So, I hope you will remain a member of the AAW and that we will be able to cry friends if ever we should meet in person.

    I also hope everyone understands that it is often difficult to know whether or not what you are writing will have it's intended affect. For example, my initial comments on the threads surrounding the events of June 21st were written with the intent to calm things down. Of course, when someone's really angry, telling him he's overreacting does not always produce the desired result. I should have known that -- I've been on this planet long enough to have observed this phenomena several times. However, I honestly thought that pointing out that there might be another side to the story might settle things down. For my trouble, my intelligence, integrity, ethics, and basic human decency were questioned and I was told in no uncertain terms I wasn't the kind of person who was welcome in the AAW. Perhaps the insults and derisions sent my way were intended as nothing more than the good natured ribbing that we men are famous for, but I certainly did not take them that way.
     
  3. Bill Blasic

    Bill Blasic

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    George,
    Right on, nicely spoken!
    Bill
     
  4. Betty Scarpino

    Betty Scarpino

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
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    384
    Over the past two years as editor of AAW's journal, I have received a variety of emails from AAW members. Most of them are supportive and positive. Some are negative, yet written in a supportive manner. A few have been negative.

    Almost everyone wants the same thing, which is a positive experience with their woodturning efforts. It is clear to me, however, that many people simply do not know how to express their frustrations in a manner that will guarantee desired results. Instead, what they write ends up dividing instead of bringing people together.

    I count Dave Walser as someone who clearly and positively articulates his ideas in his writing. I appreciate that he is one of the volunteers who have taken on the task of rewriting the bylaws. Thank you Dave. I have personally corresponded with Ron Sardo and Mark Mandell. They are also working positively on behalf of the AAW as volunteers. Thank you Ron and Mark.

    There is much left to accomplish within the AAW, as well as within the local chapters. I know that there are, right now, hundreds of really good people helping others learn to turn by creating the opportunities for new folks to simply join a local chapter and have immediate access to a vast amount of resources for learning turning, for talking about turning, and for expanding their lives. The AAW is the bones and structure for much of this enthusiasm and interest in woodturning.

    The AAW will continue to thrive because of the many really good people working to make that happen. I applaud their efforts!


    Betty Scarpino, editor, AW
     
  5. Mark Mandell

    Mark Mandell

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    I was sorely tempted to ignore this thread as I view it as a vehicle to bypass the padlock put on the Mail List thread below.

    Mr. Guadiane, you are welcome to your personal opinion of me and what I posted below, but you are not entitled to hold me out as some kind of representative of the AAW, a "policy maker", or any other rubric you may choose to use to try impute what I say here to the Board of Directors or to imply that my personal comments are somehow official policy of the organization, merely because I happen to be working on the by-laws committee. Such an attempt is exactly that against which you now purport to protest. In fact, I have baited no-one in this instance, notwithstanding that I have been branded with various titles such as Board "puppet," "dupe," "mouthpiece," and other such names by the members your new forum, coupled with allegations regarding my personal integrity and ethics that I actually regard as being very close, if not over the line of actionable defamation.

    I am, however, going to state here once again, clearly and distinctly, that what I write here is purely my own. I speak for nobody else, in or out of the AAW. I thus regard your post in this thread as an attempt to shut me up lest what I have say will somehow damage the AAW in the eyes of other forum readers.

    On the other hand, I strongly agree with the expressed goal of curbing personal attacks on members for their expressed opinions.
     
  6. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    George,

    What I hope to see on this forum is a respectful communication of ideas about the the AAW presented in a constructive fashion.

    I certainly did not intend to insult anyone.
    Nor did I knowingly misrepresent anything.

    you have misrepresented me.
    I am a former board member and AAW advisor who spell his last name "hockenbery".

    The AAW certainly can do lots of things better. One way that gets done is for members like ourselves to take an active part.
    The AAW is run by its members, the 9 AAW members who serve as board members and a couple hundred volunteers who work on various committees.

    Are they perfect? No? They are willing to work.

    If I insulted you in any way, I apologize.

    -Al
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
  7. Jamie Donaldson

    Jamie Donaldson

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
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    Georgetown,KY
    The post last evening....

    ..by an offended new AAW member was a blast of cold reality on an overcooked subject, and an excellent wake-up call for us to observe decorum in future discussions. I hereby take the pledge!
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
  8. bhask

    bhask

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    BOD Meeting Minutes

    Bill, not the thread for this.

    - content removed by Admin
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2010
  9. George Guadiane

    George Guadiane

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    David, if I was wrong about you and your input, I apologize, between the nasty comments from either side, my eyes could have glazed over and/or I could have added you from my memory banks rather than from anything you posted recently.
    Betty, I have no doubt that you are correct, and even those that I sited are good people.

    I SWEAR I was not aware that that thread had been locked. I started typing a response on the original fyi thread and found IT locked when I tried to post, so I used the title plus my own designation (not intended as an upgrade).
    I think you misunderstand my statement and intent... You are MOST entitled to your opinion.
    Try as you might to refute it, consider this; you ARE working on policy issues for AAW and as a select representative from the membership. Having elected to accept the responsibility to assist in this difficult and arduous task, does not mitigate or eliminate the responsibility that comes with it to act as an appropriate representative of our organization TO us, the members, so have your opinions, voice them if they are without vitriol, but know that, in spite of any desire you may have to eschew the fact that your words, like it or not, are heard as coming from a policy maker... If AAW policy makers opt not to use good judgment, it reflects badly on AAW.


    At least we have that in common.

    Al,
    Sorry about the misspelling ("misrepresentation")It's odd that you pick the word insult. You didn't insult me, in any way, but the rhetoric I was responding to was authoritative and misrepresentative, in almost every way:
    You have no way of knowing exactly why a moderator chooses to ban or give a time out (and neither do I), but in looking at the KIND of actions taken, and in having received some of that action myself, bans SEEM to go to "dissenters" with disproportion.
    You say "A minority has held to their goal of punishing the Board and disrupting the AAW. Sadly it has become a bit of a holy war for a few AAW members. Reason and logic are unimportant when they disagree with faith born beliefs."
    You cannot know the reasons for actions taken nor "goals" of these people any more than I know your reasons for making statements like the one above. You attack(?) by suggesting they, those whom you oppose lack reason and logic while making no reflection on equally ideological statements made by those with whom you agree.
    Your apology is unnecessary, but appreciated.

    My intention was to be frank and forthright. I did not intend to insult or attack, only to point out the nature of the injury to AAW that I see, as I see it.
    I will gladly make any factual corrections necessary.
    Anyone who is offended, I apologize.
    G
     
  10. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    George,

    It is my belief based upon what I have read and heard that
    a minority has indeed held onto the goal of punishing the existing board.

    If you wish to believe that I am wrong in this that is fine.

    I would love for 100% of the AAW membership to think I am wrong.

    That would mean we are united and moving forward.

    14000 folks are unlikely to agree 100 percent on much. Our common bond has been woodturning education for ourselves and others. I'd like to see that common bond emphasized and the infighting go away.


    -Al
     
  11. Jordan

    Jordan

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    Jul 19, 2010
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    Vinton, Iowa
    Thank you, George

    Thank you, George, for your comments.

    As for the new AAW member so offput by the various comments following the June bloodbath, and the outrage expressed by many of us, and those mightily defending their indefensible position (the pro-BoD), it is unfortunate that you joined the AAW at this point in time. Had you joined earlier, you might have a better understand of our outrage. Had you waited to join until the dust has settled, you would surely have no reason to doubt membership renewal.

    We, the outraged members of the AAW are NOT anti-AAW. We ARE against inhumane, unethical and dishonest behavior in our AAW leadership. We have been through a distasteful, painful and embarrassing situation.

    At least we have feelings about it, and we are expressing those feelings. It is much better than apathy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
  12. Ken Fitzgerald

    Ken Fitzgerald

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    ID
    In my earliest posts I pointed out the error the BOD made by underestimating the effects their actions would have on this organization. I would suggest some of the responses displayed in this thread and the referred closed thread demonstrates that there is still strong illwill among some members and the true damage to the organization is yet to be known.

    I wish the organization well.
     
  13. Ed Davidson

    Ed Davidson

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    Jordan,

    The principals (those who were actually in the room) have agreed to put this behind them, encouraging others to follow suit. I ask you to do the same.

     

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