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How to fix a funnel

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Randy Anderson, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

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    A friend of mine dropped off a failed magnolia core (funnel) he had in his shop from a while back when he was learning to use his coring tool. He asked if I could fit an insert into the center and make something out of it. I want to give it a shot. It's 15" OD so too big for my longworth chuck. The top face and outer rim have been trued up and are still true. He can't remember exactly how he mounted it to accomplish that but likely some combination of jam chucks. The trick I face now is to true up the center opening and enlarge it to a point that the thickness is sufficient to glue in a different wood insert and then proceed to turn to complete. It's very thin near the edge of the center opening. The bottom is not trued up or flat. I could try and mount and turn down to just small enough to fit in the longworth chuck but want to keep that as a last option. Would still need to get creative on a jam chuck setup to do that. I've considered hot gluing the top of the rim to a large thin blank and taking it very easy and slow on the center opening. Looking for ideas on options. I currently have a 3/4" piece of plywood centered and mounted to my faceplate that I can use to hot glue it to. Just uneasy about the hot glue holding it I guess.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  2. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    What I would do is screw a plywood or MDF disc to a faceplate.
    You have the disc.

    cut a recess in the disc that just fits the outside of the rim. 3/16” deep would be good.
    Recess needs to be wide enough to seat the width of the rim.
    sneak up on it for a tight fit. You can mark the approximate size with a compas, dividers or ruler.

    To hold the rim in the recess I would screw 8 small wooden blockS around the rim. Tight against the rim for support
    And then use hotmelt glue all around the rim.

    This will make a nice mirror frame. Go to you local glass store and have them cut a nice mirror maybe a beveled edge.

    you can also turn the inside true to accept another piece of turned wood.

    if you are nervous about the holding power of your wood block you can screw banding steel ie nylon over the edges of the rim 4 of these will make it super solid.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  3. Chris Lawrence

    Chris Lawrence

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    I have 3 of those made with some nice spalted maple. My plan for when they dry is to flatten and round the rim like you have. Then mount a wide enough board on a faceplate and round it to match the diameter of the rim and glue the blank to board. Once i get the bottom repaired just part the bowl off the board.
     
  4. Gary Beasley

    Gary Beasley

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    I have set a failed piece on a sander and brought it down to even while grinding away enough wood to have proper thickness for gluing a block on. Mounting in to a jam chuck to true up the bottom and make a tenon can be tricky if the sanding is not square with the axis of the bowl but still doable.
     
  5. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

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    Thanks for the tips. I cut my 3/4 plywood circle and carefully centered my faceplace on it. Turned the surfaced flat and rounded to the exact same size as the bowl. Started to glue it down then realized I had plenty of material in the rim to actually screw it onto the faceplate board, about an 1" in from the current rim. Just finished making bottom flat and opening up the center hole to a size that gives me enough material in the bottom. With it screwed to the faceplate blank I can take it off and on to see how the inside insert fits and looks and clean up if needed. Maybe. I've never done an insert like this so will consider the mirror idea, sounds interesting. Now that I have it cleaned up and true I have options.
     
  6. Dennis J Gooding

    Dennis J Gooding

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  7. Dave Landers

    Dave Landers

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    I personally like the mirror idea (or maybe picture frame).

    Maybe it's just me, but I've never been a fan of trying to repair my mistakes - they often end up looking like repaired mistakes, rather than intentional design elements.
     
  8. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

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    Thanks Dennis. I had actually seen and made note of your post a while back. My obstacle on doing that was the bowl was 15" and I have a 16" swing so would have been very very tight to try and get something mounted on the edges that I would trust.

    Dave, I mostly agree. Seldom does a repair look like it was intended to be. That said, friend of mine sold one similar in size with a bottom repair like this and the buyer loved it. You never know. Plus just the challenge of trash to something usable is fun, sometimes.
     
  9. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

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    OK, I've got it all trued up with a nice true hole in the bottom with 5/16 thickness at it's thinnest spot. Enough to work with. I like the mirror idea more and more but want to think through the mounting steps before I dismount it from the plywood face it is on now. If I leave the bottom hole open I have no way to turn the inside. If I put in a temp bottom with a tenon then I can clean up the inside but then not sure of how to mount to turn away the insert/tenon and leave me a nice clean opening for the mirror. I can't screw it back on to the current mounting plate. I can glue the mirror on the back and plan to turn a recess for it so it is flush with the bottom but want the inside opening to it to be rounded over with a nice thin transition to the glass. I can turn the inside into the temp tenon plug but am still stuck with how to get it off cleanly. Answer is probably obvious to some of you. Thinking now that if I got a round mirror cut with clean edges I could just mount it from the inside with a snug fit. Not like I initially was thinking but it works.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  10. Richard Coers

    Richard Coers

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    Wood must be pretty scarce in Eads to spend the time on that. If it was a burl or highly figured I would understand.
     
    hockenbery likes this.
  11. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

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    Nope, I have plenty and some I need to get to. It's a challenge, chance to learn something and different. All done I'll probably have a couple hours in it. Less than appears from the thread I guess. While pondering this thing I finished a good sized hollow form so normal production still moving along.
     
    Mark Jundanian likes this.
  12. Dave Landers

    Dave Landers

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    Randy, Sounds like you have a good attitude for this piece. Going to be challenging to mount and turn it, but you'll learn things that will be really handy to know. If you have a chance, share some pictures of how you mount it in various steps.
     
  13. odie

    odie

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    I feel exactly the same, so you're not alone, Dave. :D I won't bother with anything that will ultimately look like a repair. :oops:

    Luckily, those I've tossed in the trash in more recent times, are the result of something Mother Nature is responsible for, and my reputation is intact! :rolleyes: (These days, I use a depth gauge, and monitor my progress repeatedly, as I near the bottom of a bowl.)

    The last time I had a "funnel", appears to be in 2007, and it was used as a gift to a friend, when his third daughter was born:
    Silver Maple #614 tribute bowl for Zee's three daughters.jpg

    You can either try to hide the repair......or, can use a contrasting wood. I chose to use the contrasting wood, and it always, ALWAYS hurts my eyes to see it, because it's ALWAYS a reminder of my dumb mistake. :eek:

    I've decided, I'll just cut my losses, and go on to the next bowl......certainly is easier to forget my dumb mistakes, that way! :)

    -----odie-----
     
  14. Don Wattenhofer

    Don Wattenhofer

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    101_0437.JPG This birch burl funnel seamed like it was too nice a piece to just junk so I flattened the bottom by rubbing on a piece of sand paper attached to a flat surface. The repair is from my stock of laminated segmented rings and was easily glued on and also provided a place to make a tenon for the overall finish turning.
     
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  15. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

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    Update - my mirror came in today so decided to work on it. A while back I screwed a plywood circle to the rim, put a faceplate on the plywood and trued up the bowl and hole. I glued a walnut blank I had laying around into the hole and put a tenon on both sides so I could work from either direction. Today I worked the outer and inner shapes to match (sorta) and thinned it as much as I thought I could without getting into trouble with the knot areas. I decided to leave about 1/8" of the walnut on the back. It's a little bigger than the donut hole on the back side and wanted to avoid hitting the glue line or transition area. Tomorrow I'll sand and glue the mirror in place. Not sure if I should use double sided tape or two part epoxy on the mirror mounting. Wondering if epoxy might mess up the finish on the back. I've uploaded a few pics of progress and steps.
     

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  16. Robert D Evans

    Robert D Evans

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    Sometimes, it's just the principal. I will not be defeated.
     
  17. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

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    Done! Used double sided tape for mirror. I recessed the back so that the hook sits below the edge. Will sit flat on table if wanted for a centerpiece for flowers or vase and will help it hang flat on the wall. Danish oil finish.
     

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