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Osmo

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Jamie Straw, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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  2. Tom Albrecht

    Tom Albrecht

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    That looks very interesting. There has to be someplace other than Oregon, to buy it.
     
  3. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    I did a search and found World Class Supply in Delaware is a dealer. Didn't go farther than that.
     
  4. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    Since we have a Cross Cut here in Eugene, I will have to check it out. Any time there is wax in it, I think Carnuba, which has to be solvent based to get any kind of flow unless you want to really heat it up. Not practical for floors.

    robo hippy
     
  5. Tom Albrecht

    Tom Albrecht

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    I'd be interested in hearing what you find out Reed. I called the Seattle store, they are out of the "Top Oil" and don't do any shipping. I also called a local flooring distributor in IL who doesn't carry the "Top Oil" and had no interest in getting it. (It's a slow hunting day here in WI today).
     
  6. Mike Brazeau

    Mike Brazeau

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    They do have a food safe version. We were introduced to their products early this year when the Canadian GM did a brief presentation at a guild meeting. A few members are using it. The 3054 Satin Polyx Oil apparently produces a nice sheen. The waxes and oils are blends that are not common in NA. Have a look at their web site. Flat guys love it too. Stuff is expensive but goes a long way apparently.
     
  7. Yvan Santin

    Yvan Santin

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    Hi All,
    I have never really posted on this forum because I feel that I am always the one that is constantly learning from all of you here and don't have much more to add then has already been said. Maybe I can help a little with this one.

    I have used the Satin Polyx Oil extensively on both table tops and bowls. Once you get the hang of it, it is fairly easy to apply. I find that it really brings the figure out of the wood without "yellowing" it like an oil such as Danish oil will. As Mike said, the Polyx Oil is food safe and gives a great look to the wood. There are a number of youtube posts that show it in use.

    My application method kind of goes like this:
    - apply it with a non-abrasive 3M or Norton pad (the Norton one is white).
    - for flat wood, work it into the wood in circular patterns until there is a slight sheen to the piece, doing a small section at a time. For bowls, this stuff loves the heat build up so I just apply it with the pad and then add light pressure at low rpm while covering the surface
    - allow to sit for a few minutes (do not let it dry!) and then buff off with a clean piece of the same 3M or Norton pad
    - clean up any residue by buffing with a lint free cloth
    - you can apply multiple coats, I just typically do a light sanding with 400x grit prior to re-application
    - after the final coat I typically wetsand to 1500x going up through the grits just to give the workpiece that "soft" feel...that's just personal preference though

    It is very resilient and if down the road there are scratches, etc it can be re-applied in localized areas without any witness lines.

    Hope this helps
     
  8. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Are these pads like the 3M Scotch Brite pads? I saw that in addition to the familiar green pads, they have a "Fine" 6444 pad (brown), "Very Fine" 7447 pad (maroon), and "Ultra Fine" 7448 pad (gray).
     
  9. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    Yvan, thanks for the details, truly appreciated.
    That point has been emphasized by the people I've talked to, who used Osmo to finish all the stairs, tables and counters in the new BARN facility, which were made from locally harvested Big Leaf Maple.

    I haven't had a chance to go to the specialty paint store yet. Is there a semi-gloss version? If not, does anyone have a technique to get such a surface look?
     
  10. Jamie Straw

    Jamie Straw

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    That's the main claim to fame, it seems -- flooring, big tables and such. Looking forward to trying it out on some bowls!
     
  11. Bill Blasic

    Bill Blasic

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    It is there on Amazon but not cheap.
     
  12. Yvan Santin

    Yvan Santin

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    Sorry Bill, haven't been on the forum in a while. I use the Norton pads and they are white. I will check to see what the part number is tonight. They are non-abrasive though.
     
    Bill Boehme likes this.
  13. MarkAndrews

    MarkAndrews

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    I'd like to revive this thread. First to Bill's question. The pad that you want to use is the Scotch Brite White Pad like these https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Brite-Cleaning-6-Inch-98/dp/B000659ODS . Norton's Bear Tex White Pad is also a good choice https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JXQE4E/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    I heard about Osmo products from my brother in Oregon who is a professional Banjo maker. He was really excited by it's strength (scratch resistance) and the way the finish makes highly figured wood pop.
    Osmo has been around for about 35 years but basically used in Europe exclusively. Yes, it's expensive but a little goes a long way. My brother tells me that half a teaspoon will do a whole banjo neck. What sold him on the product was it's toughness. He applied it to his copy carver template for his banjo necks. The copy carver uses a metal stylus (see picture) which runs over the template to make the copy. After applying the Osmo and running the metal stylus over the template, there were no scratches on the template.
    Keep in mind, one of the main uses of Osmo is as a floor finish so it must be tough. OSMO Polyx-Oil is made from 2 natural waxes (carnauba and candelilla) and 3 natural oils (sunflower, soybean, and thistle). This a completely petrolium and solvent free finish. Here's a YouTube video by WoodWorkWeb on Osmo and it's application on flat work
    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7cgv0l4k8U

    I live in California and I've been stocking up on lacquer, lacquer thinner and paint thinner because I'm sure at some point the non water based versions of lacquer will be banned. It's simply a matter of time. Having an option like Osmo is very exciting. Personally I hate the idea of needing to wear a respirator when spraying finish. There's absolutely no need to wear protection when using this finish.
    Lastly, Osmo has food safe version called Top Oil.
    I plan on trying this product on my turnings, I will use the techniques that Yvan very generously described earlier in this thread. I'll post my impressions and lessons learned along with pictures of the finished product. I'm attaching a picture of the finished banjo. It's birdseye maple and I think it's gorgeous. My brother not only makes the wood components of the banjo he also hand makes all of the metal components. The head of the banjo is made from goat skin imported from Pakistan. If you'd like to see more of his work, you can visit his website https://www.brooksbanjos.com/
    IMG_74781.jpg IMG_75091.jpg IMG_75831.jpg
     
    Gary Beasley likes this.
  14. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm about to purchase the Osmo Mobile by DJI, lol, I thought we were talking about making movies with our phones.... This other Osmo sounds interesting....
     
  15. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Just watched the video, I'm sold on this Osmo! Have to convince some club members so we can split a can....
     
  16. Raul McCai

    Raul McCai

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    I'm pretty sure that all finishes are toy & food safe once they cure.
     
    Charles Cadenhead likes this.
  17. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    I read somewhere your not suppose to sand past 220 grit to apply as will not soak in. That is why I have not used it as would just be a surface finish that would wear off fast . And you can see scratches at 220 in most woods. And a good tool finish would stop it from penetrating.
     
  18. James Seyfried

    James Seyfried

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    Mike Adams and William Rogers like this.
  19. DON FRANK

    DON FRANK

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    I just got mine yesterday. I love the look and feel of this stuff. Just put the second coat this morning on a small hollow form and also did a natural edge cedar slab coffee table. It is amazing how little of the product is needed. I did the application with the white pads like the video.
    It's expensive, but based on my first test, the cost per sq inch is probably equivalent to or less than a lot of other things. It has a beautiful velvetly texture to the wood. I'll post some pics after finishing this up. I'm really glad this post came up. Thanks Jamie.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  20. JeffSmith

    JeffSmith

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    looking for some to arrive this week - did you use the top oil? I also got some outdoor type with uv protection to try on some teak outdoor furniture that has been pressure washed every year, but has spent nearly 20 years in the weather. It’s still serviceable, but needs a little tlc.
    Looking forward to trying the topoil on bowls and seeing how the uv version reacts to weather on the teak...
     
  21. DON FRANK

    DON FRANK

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    I did get top oil also but have not tried it yet.
     
  22. Mike Adams

    Mike Adams

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    It looks that way. I just saw the price of $38 for a half liter of Top Oil. That puts it right there with General Finishes Bowl Finish that ran me ~$20 for 8 ounces. I'm not thrilled with the GF finish, so I'm going to try this one. Besides, the GF finish has a chem warning about toulene and a couple of ingredients on the label that I can't pronounce.
     
  23. Mike Adams

    Mike Adams

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  24. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    Charles Cadenhead likes this.
  25. Kevin Weir

    Kevin Weir

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    In Canada, Legacy Lumber sells Osmo. Haven’t tried it yet though.
     
  26. Greg Norman

    Greg Norman

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    Rubio Monocoat is an excellent finish. It is very durable and is easy to apply, like danish oil.
    It is easily buffed by hand with a white scotchbrite.
     
  27. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    I use it and love it. It seems expensive but a few drops go a long way so it really is not expensive.
     
  28. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    You will love it. Do exactly as directions indicate.
     
  29. Mike Adams

    Mike Adams

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    My can from Timber Wolf Slabs came yesterday and the first coat for a huge salad bowl is spinning on the lathe. I don't know if that'll help cure/dry/set this, but figured it couldn't hurt.

    Man, I love how Top Oil goes on. I really, really, dislike thin, watery finishes and this is more like a thin oil. It doesn't smell bad. It has a sort of sweet organic smell, but no solvent smell. My Budget Committee usually knows <3 seconds after I open a finish with any chemicals in it, but I didn't hear a peep this time.
     
  30. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    I picked up a half pint can of Osmo Polyx satin (3043) to try from Lee Valley, and I thought I would share my observations and impressions. In addition to the helpful video referenced above I also found this video useful:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGGGwHzPu64

    And printable instructions here:

    http://www.raincoastalternatives.com/files/3613/1810/6146/3054Furniturev2.1_HOW_TO.pdf

    Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a lot of guidance from Osmo on how to apply it to small objects, and my goal for a wood surface differs from what’s customary for furniture making and is way different than finishing floors. So I was unsure how Polyx would work for me. I am looking for a hyper-smooth surface, which preserves the wood look. To get to where I want to be I sand the wood to at least P600, but recently P1200 and even P3000. So the performance I observed may not entirely reflect what others will see.

    I should also mention that my finishing area is smack in the middle of the work bench in my dusty shop and other than running the overhead air cleaner for a couple of hours or waiting till the morning for finish applications I make no other preparations.

    I compared the Osmo Polyx with Bartley Gel Stain Clear Coat, which is what I usually use on my pieces. The Bartley product is a satin sheen oil based varnish, and as near as I can figure out a polyurethane alkyd resin blend. I started off with a small scrap board of clear maple, about 4 x 8 inches. I also had a cherry burl bowl I recently finished turning that I was willing to risk. The cherry bowl and maple scrap were both sanded to P1200. For comparison purposes I had three turned pieces that were already done with the Bartley finish. The first was from spalted maple and sanded to P1200; the second was from the same clear maple that had produced the scrap board, but this piece had only been sanded to P600. Last I had a finished cherry piece which had been sanded to P3000.

    When I opened the can I was struck by the resemblance of the Polyx in consistency to the fat laden liquid released when you carve a roasted chicken or turkey. There is a vague odor, but not particularly unpleasant, smells sort of like candle wax. Osmo spreads, or should I say smears, easily and is somewhat self leveling so it lends itself to application with a white “non-abrasive” pad. As opposed to the colored pads, the white pads contain no additional abrasives and are the equivalent of 0000 steel wool. I have to say I was skeptical of using the pad because nothing that looks like it could scour a pot is non-abrasive enough for me to want to rub all over something I’ve sanded that smooth. But it worked fine. It certainly consumed less of the material than a rag would have done. Still next time I might try some other applicator.

    I applied tiny amounts at a time and it spread remarkably far, not unlike one would expect, say from chicken fat. Once spread around I then went over the entire application area a second time, re-spreading without adding more material. As to scrubbing or pressing the Polyx into the wood, that did not seem to be necessary. I used moderately firm pressure.

    With my first coating on the bowl I did the inside and outside together in one go. Thing is you’ve a moderately heavy bowl with a very smooth surface that is now covered in chicken fat. You want to be mindful of your grip. I decided to take the second coat one side at a time.

    After the spreading the finish the surface looks good, but there will be some visible streaking. I let it sit for 10 to 20 minutes, then I wiped and buffed by hand with a clean cotton rag. As you begin to wipe with the rag there is fairly high friction. This dissipates quickly as the surface becomes smoothed. After buffing the surface looks great, but the coating has not set up yet. I’ve heard different numbers, but the instructions I found call for a 12 hour cure between coats. I applied two coats and there is no sanding between coats.

    So how does this compare to the application process for Bartley? The Bartley Gel varnish is very high viscosity, about like pudding, and much thicker than General Finishes’ gel varnish. It is a straight forward 3 rag application: wipe on; wipe off; moderately vigorous hand buffing. All steps are done one after the other, no waiting. Cure between coats is 6 hours. There is no sanding between coats. I typically apply 3 coats, but the third does very little.

    So actually, I have to give the ease of application edge to Bartley. I do not have to wait 20 minutes for the buff step, and with a 6 hour cure I can theoretically get three coats on in one day, if the first coat is done early enough in the morning. Now I may not have the Osmo application process dialed in, there is a lot of variation in instructions out there and next to no one is actually talking about how to apply to handheld objects, but it does seem to need to dry a bit before buffing. And I have noticed some lingering smell on the cherry burl even after a day (that may be related to it being burl), but I’m not sure whether or not you can re-coat sooner than 12 hours.

    So how good is the finished surface?

    The Osmo on P1200 clear maple results in a super smooth, satin gloss, flawless dust nib free surface, that feels silky smooth and down right sensuous to the gliding finger tip.

    The Bartley on P1200 spalted maple results in a super smooth, satin gloss, flawless dust nib free surface, that feels silky smooth and down right sensuous to the gliding finger tip.

    Comparing the test board to P600 clear maple, the Bartley is noticeably more amber where the test board of Osmo is clear. The P1200 Osmo is smoother.

    The two cherry pieces also compare similarly. The P3000 piece may be ever so slightly smoother, but I really couldn’t tell much difference. Ambering is harder to appreciate.

    I was expecting something special from the Osmo. Color was the main difference, but I really couldn’t see or feel much difference in sheen or smoothness. My thinking is that surface smoothness is multi-factorial and at these fine grits sanding is the more powerful factor. Quite possibly I would appreciate a smoothness difference if the surfaces were prepped to 220. I think that it is quite possible that once set up the Osmo surface has less sliding friction than the polyurethane varnish. But any difference appears lost in this setting.

    It’s worth noting that neither product had a problem with dust nibs, so there is no need to sand between coats. I think this insensitivity to nibs is because neither is particularly tacky after the application process is complete. In the case of the Bartley I believe this is because it is so viscous to begin with that there is not a lot of solvent that needs to evaporate before it begins to set up. In fact it is usually dry to the touch in an hour or so. Maybe something similar is happening with the Osmo product. I will say that with both products there is a limited working time. For large projects your best to do small (2’ x 2’) areas at a time. Now, if you feel morally compelled to sand between coats it’s possible to do so with either product. Sanding a surface coating is just something I do not want to have to deal with. I’ve tried GF ARS, High Performance and Wood Turner’s Finish. They are all highly nib-o-philic.

    So that’s my story. I think the principle difference between the Osmo and Bartley products is that Bartley is a little easier/faster to apply while Osmo causes less ambering (and may be easier to repair). What’s not clear to me is how much of an effect hyper-sanding might have had on these results. In this setting both deliver very pleasing results and I think it’s hard to choose. I could be happy using either.
     
    Joe Kaufman likes this.
  31. Joe Kaufman

    Joe Kaufman

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    I’ve finished a 10” Sycamore Bow and a 11” Potocarpus Bowl with 2 coats Osmo 3056 Top Oil (Clear Matte, High Solid). No sanding between coats or after the final coat. Nothing applied after the second coat such as wax. The surface is smooth.

    The Podocarpus, sanded to 400 grit still had a shallow chuck recess so it was remounted on the lathe for the finish application. The first coat was applied to both surfaces by hand using a 2” square white nylon pad. No lathe power was used. The pad application and light burnishing continued until the coat was even and starting to set. It was left mounted on the chuck on the lathe. No final wipe down, nothing more was done. It feels to be tack free in less than a half hour. The next day the base was sanded and Osmo finish applied to the base.

    To verify the “repair with no witness line” capability, I sanded a 2” dia spot through the first coat of finish. After the second coat, outside surface first than inside surface an hour later, I cannot see the repair area.

    The Sycamore natural edge bowl, sanded to 320 grit was finished on the inside. I waited a few minutes then turned over in my lap and finished the outside, similar technique.

    In side by side comparison the same wood finished with several coats of Mahoney’s Walnut Oil applied over a month’s period and a recent application of Mahoney’s wax to the Osmo Top Oil application are as follows:

    The Osma Top Oil is fairly thick and imparts it’s slight light tan color to light colored wood. I do not find this objectionable.

    Oamo Oil appears to be more of a hard surface finish than Mahoney’s WO.

    It has a slight sheen to the surface, more so than the Mahoney’s application.

    The Mahoney’s application brings out more of the grain characteristics of the wood.

    I have no doubt that Osmo Oil will require less "refreshing" than Mahoney's.
     
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