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"Private" Remote demonstrations

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Emiliano Achaval, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Several of the turners offering Zoom Remote Interactive Demos are now offering demos not to a club but to anybody that wants to join. I wonder how many of you have attended one of these non-club sponsored demos? I have decided to give it a try and I'm having my first IRD, The Hawaiian Calabash on August 1st.
    I wonder if the interest is going to be there once we are out of the Covid era? One problem I see is the time difference, It was not easy to decide on a starting time since I'm in Hawaii. I'm starting the Zoom session at 1 pm Maui time. I already got a few emails from people in England, might have to do one for people there. When I did one for 5 clubs in England a few weeks ago I had to start at 8 am. It was a leap of faith, once you decide to do it, whether one person, ten or a hundred, you have to go for it. So far 4 have signed up for mine, included woodturning legend and AAW founder Dick Gerard.
     
    Steve Fairbairn and Paul Lajoie like this.
  2. Stan Semeniuk

    Stan Semeniuk

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    How long do you think your demo will run?
     
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  3. Steve Nix

    Steve Nix

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    I think that would work, cost?
     
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  4. Roger Wiegand

    Roger Wiegand

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    I've done 4-5 of them including from Trent Bosch and Cindy Drozda. Well worth the $10 they are charging.

    Yes, I suspect they will persist into the post-Covid era. Too many benefits not to. One problem now is overload; I could be doing one every day, pretty much. People keep upping their technological game, my expectation now is for great camera work presented from multiple angles. Some demonstrators seem to be able to pull it off, others not so much.
     
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  5. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    Emiliano Achaval likes this.
  6. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    On his avatar above on first post.........


    Lefley.jpeg


    $10.00 I’m in.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2020
  7. Doug Rasmussen

    Doug Rasmussen

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    One forum I like and frequent does not allow "sales" in the forum. IMO, that was a good decision by the forum owner.

    Freely sharing turning methods, techniques, etc, etc was what I thought this forum was about. And not offering free advertising for those who want to profit from it. How about taking out an ad in the AAW journal instead.
     
  8. GRJensen

    GRJensen

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    I have bought into several (Cindy Drozda, Glenn Lucas, Trent Bosch, Tod Raines).

    Time of day is not usually a problem, and several of the pro's have made arrangements to allow later viewing of the recorded demo (some have an extra fee for that service).

    I think this business model will be around long after Covid-19 is behind us ... it looks like a decent source of income for the demonstrator with minimal cost, and gives turners one-on-one access to professional turners they otherwise might not have.
     
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  9. Roger Wiegand

    Roger Wiegand

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    Gee, I disagree. I enjoy hearing about new products and services offered by members, within reason. It's hard to find out about all these demos (as previous threads on the subject will attest), I think it would be great if AAW hosted a public calendar of such events open to all members.

    I also think it's important now to try to do our best to support member small businesses and individuals trying to make a living through woodturning.

    There should be explicit rules and perhaps even a separate commercial subforum under the classified ads, but I have no objection to members occasionally promoting what they have to offer as long as they do so openly.
     
  10. Steven Forrest

    Steven Forrest

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    Emiliano didn't initiate a marketing thread. He posed a question, and someone asked him specifically about his own situation, to which he responded. The concern about "free advertising" is not unwarranted, but I don't think Emiliano was at all out of line in this case.
     
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  11. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    Actually Emiliano hasn't responded. The information was offered by another member.
     
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  12. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I have been doing this demo these past few months and I have it down to a science, I can do it in 2 and half hours. With Q & A during and after the demo.
     
  13. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Great suggestion, if I make enough money I will do an an add in the Journal.
     
    Brandon Sloan likes this.
  14. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Thank you Roger, something we know here, you can’t please everyone... Aloha
     
  15. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I had to hire some help to do the website part, as simple as it looks a few things were not working, I can even make it more “automated” but that would cost more money. Just curious if this is something here to stay or just a Covid response. Thank you for your input.
     
  16. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Hesitant to mention a price here, I’m not making a sales pitch, just research before I invest more money. Al the info is at my website. Let me know if it was easy to access. Thank you
     
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  17. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    I think the people that are saying this isn’t the place for this or that , should just try and do what a normal person would do. DONT Read it! Simple. Move on. I think a lot of posts recently are of great concern to a lot of people.This Covid has changed the way things are being done. These new zoom remote demos, ( god I wish I bought more Zoom stock when this COVID hit, but that’s another story), Are awesome in my opinion. They need a new sub heading here with information on all turners that are doing these demos. I don’t believe it’s advertising at all, it is were it’s at right now. Where else are we going to get info about woodturning education other than the aaw forum.

    I’ve watched at least 7 Demos lately. I could only afford one demo a year before these virtual demos came out. I’ll have 8 under my belt this year not including the aaw virtual demos.
     
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  18. Stan Semeniuk

    Stan Semeniuk

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    For me I hope they are here to stay. Being north of the boarder I have almost no access to a live demo. It gives me access to top notch turners which I really appreciate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  19. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Sent you the email. Aloha
     
  20. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Well said Glenn. It is what I suggested to the few that were grumbling on another thread not too long ago. They are not only stopping by and reading it but taking the time to make comments, LOL I don't do segmenting when I see a thread about segmenting, I move on, I do not go and make comments. Aloha
     
  21. Damon McLaughlin

    Damon McLaughlin

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    I too hope that remote demonstrations continue, even when things go back to normal. For someone that doesn't like crowds or is on a fixed income where large symposiums may not be in their budget, these remote demonstrations still allow them to join in and share the experience. Our club has had several conversations saying that there is a great benefit to continuing to have the meetings online even when they resume in person. We have snow birds that go south in the winter that could still attend our meetings and watch the demosntrations.

    I love the online demo's and while I can't afford to watch them all I'll continue to watch when I can.
     
  22. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    For us in Hawaii, we love them. We started 4 years ago. We only have 1 or maybe 2 turners per year coming from the mainland to teach, and it is very expensive. IRD's have opened up a new world for us.
     
  23. Donovan Bailey

    Donovan Bailey

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    The IRDs are fantastic. They give us expanded opportunities that we turners just didn't have up to this virus/Zoom push...and all at the cost of a couple of big Macs, a large order of fries, and a fried pie. I honestly think that there is no going back now. Without a doubt these remote viewing opportunities will end up expanding the turning community and this is something that we certainly need....new blood. I also see no reason that this will be a substitute for an onsite visit for a teaching/demonstrating turner because a "hands-on" workshop by a noted turner is still a very very valuable experience. While I'm thinking about it...I'd pay double for a Zoom opportunity to watch Emiliano install a pewa patch.
     
  24. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    We plan to see @Emiliano Achaval demo for the Chesapeake woodturners tomorrow.

    We are doing it late in the day so He doesn’t have to demo at 3AM. :)
     
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  25. Jeff Brockett

    Jeff Brockett AAW Board Member

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    A calendar for demonstrators who offer interactive remote demonstrations will be available on the AAW website soon. This is currently in test mode.
     
  26. Donovan Bailey

    Donovan Bailey

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    Now this is a good thing. Thank you for letting us know about this...and I'll certainly put it to good use.
     
  27. Stan Semeniuk

    Stan Semeniuk

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    Hi John,
    I appreciate everyone's opinion on this. Maybe it is time to rethink some of the AAW rules in this respect. I would really like to see a sub form created where members would be able to let the rest of us know what they have available for demos and also have discussions on what might be a popular topic after all the AAW is all about learning and sharing.
     
  28. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    Perfect.there is a great need for this. And when there is not a spot for it we are forced to bend rules a little bit. Where else would one post something like this. It is a woodturning discussion in my opinion with a wee bit of advertising if you read between the lines. And as Emiliano said, in Hawaii or like us in Canada very expensive to bring in a demonstrator. I5 cost me a weekend from home, hotel, gas, food, plus 1,200$ for me and my wife to attend.
    so we are looking at $2,000 plus the shopping For one demo!

    now it’s $10 and I can show up with food and wear or not wear whatever I want.
     
    Emiliano Achaval likes this.
  29. Doug Rasmussen

    Doug Rasmussen

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    No doubt in my mind IRD's will become popular.

    The AAW has been considering offering a listing of IRD providers, maybe a good idea??? Will it be free or nominal cost to those wanting their offerings listed? What effect will this have on sellers of turning related DVD's, tools, etc who currently pay for ads in the AAW journal? Personally, I believe if I was an advertiser I might be pissed. Will the IRD's be limited only to instructional material or will product sales be allowed either directly or by implication?

    Time will tell how things work out. Tricky situation, worst case it could be perceived as similar to a manufacturer (AAW in this scenario) undercutting his retail dealers (the advertisers).
     
  30. Dave Hulett

    Dave Hulett

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    Wow. A lot of responses considering this thread has only been active for 30 hours! Emiliano, you how I feel about IRD's. Our club embraced this medium almost three years ago and will receive our 18th in August.

    I think that we should be calling these Public IRD's to differentiate them from one done for a a specific club. This is a natural evolution of this medium that I've been predicting. Thanks to Covid-19, it's happening much quicker than I expected! I have seen a couple of Trent's and may do Cindy's this weekend soon. Where will this all lead? As Jeff indicated the AAW will be hosting a IRD calendar soon. I predict by next summer each month will have one or two dozen public IRD's by different turners on a diverse set of subjects.

    I am concerned about the impact this will have on our ability to find turners to demo to our club each month. It isn't hard to see nationally known turners turning down $300 club IRD's to do private IRD's at potentially 2 or even 3 times that much. But eventually (1-3 years?) that will settle out as tiered pricing for IRD's will emerge with nationally known turners earning a premium the same way they do with in person demos.

    The other thing I see happening is two or three clubs teaming up to share the cost of receiving an IRD. This will require common meeting times, of course. I have already identified two other clubs that meet at the same time our club does and will be approaching them to share costs for an IRD in the next few months.

    It's all good. Nothing will replace an in person demo and nothing can replace the fun and experience of a national or regional symposium. But public IRD's bridge gap between in person demos and short youtube videos and give us all new and different ways to learn our craft.
     
  31. stu senator

    stu senator

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    Many manufactures now put how to video's of how to use their product on their own website. Do these count as IRD?

    How will these be considered? These are generally free.

    The same for YouTube videos. Are these to be considered IRD's?

    A lot to consider as to what will be listed, glad I don't have to make that decision. No matter what the decision there will be complaints.

    Stu
     
  32. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    The I in IRD explains that. They have to be interactive to be considered in this category.

    I think IRD are here to stay but as @Dave Hulett stated there will be a shakeout as I think the big names got the first attention and now more are getting into it. Eventually it will be considered just another tool in the tool box and a primary method for those unable to make meetings. The question is how many will chose this as their club and not join a club therefore missing all the benefits from membership.
     
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  33. stu senator

    stu senator

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    Yes but the manufactures can and will and although I did not look at them offered some during the remote gathering last week.

    I can see them demonstrating live how to adjust a band saw with questions and a sales pitch, how to use a rotating head stock, how to use a coring tool, lots of skills that sell a product. Heck even some of the demonstrators did that last week.

    This is OK as we will learn if we want to, I am only pointing out some problems that must be resolved first before the AAW lists them. Not wanting to start an argument.

    Stu
     
  34. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I would not call them arguments, they are valid concerns. This is, for most, a new era. I have been doing them for 4 years. But I have done more these past few months than the prior 4 years!
     
  35. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I think you are missing the point. Can you ask a question during a youtube video? Have you tried? Did they stop doing what they were doing, look at the camera, and answered your question? That's the difference.
     
  36. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Al, you made my heart stop. I have the Chesapeake Woodturners demo scheduled for August 8th. I better double check!!
     
  37. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Reading that was like drinking a few cups of coffee! LOL I just checked, your club made the invitation, that;s why I had to check, it is Saturday August 8th. Aloha
     
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  38. Mike Peace

    Mike Peace

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    As the mug in my avitar says "I am Retired". I have to be careful to prevent some woodturning activities to push this into becoming a job, and a a rather low paying one. As long as it is fun, it is good. Modifying my website to create a shopping cart and automating reservations for a Public IRD (I like that name, Dave. Better thana "Pay for View") is where I am drawing the line right now. Seems too much like work. I would rather get a call or email from a club to arrange an IRD and that is keeping me busy enough on top of creating videos , regular club activities and the occasional hands on lesson in my shop.
     
  39. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I hear you Mike. I started doing the add-ons and I had to hired a friend to help me. He solved the coding in 10 minutes! I spent days trying. It's all working now, but low key. I can do it better but not sure if I should invest in it. The gallery that represents me closed about 3 months ago, lost that income. The club demos are a great addition to supplement that loss. I had a few calls about private lessons but I can't chance it since my wife is in the high risk category. I do not want to have someone I don't know in my shop just yet. We have hurricane Douglas barreling down toward us, have to get ready for it. Aloha!!
     
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  40. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Oops! It is August 8. Sorry about causing the cardiac episode.
     
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