1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. ATTENTION FORUM MEMBERS!

    Guest, if you have not yet updated your forum bookmark to a secure log in connection, please delete your unsecure book and add the following secure bookmark: https://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php

    You can dismiss this notice by clicking the X in the upper right of the notice box.

    Dismiss Notice

Sanding sealer and spirit stains

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Joe Sheble, May 22, 2020.

  1. Joe Sheble

    Joe Sheble

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    57
    Location (City & State):
    Apache Junction, AZ
    I've been turning a little over 2 years now, doing both resin and wood, and traditionally with wood I shape, sand 80-400 grit, use Myland's Cellulose Sanding Sealer, follow up with Yorkshire grit, then my finish which is usually a microcrystalline wax or something like Renaissance Wax.

    However, this weekend I am going to also be using Chestnut Spirit Stains for some color work. I've been reading that a wiped or brushed on cellulose sanding sealer will dilute the Chestnut Spirit Stains and draw color out, and that a spray on sanding sealer is preferred. I cannot seem to find any spray cellulose sanding sealer, and no experience with anything else.

    So what is a good spray on sanding sealer, that is readily available, and won't muck up my coloring? I was thinking of the Minway Aerosol Polycrylic, but wasn't sure it can be used as a sanding sealer, it seems mostly used as a finishing topcoat.
     
  2. charlie knighton

    charlie knighton

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,828
    Location (City & State):
    virginia
    U may have to sacrifice some of the same wood to experiment on with what u have and with others suggest......

    hope u have more than the one blank
     
  3. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    6,561
    Location (City & State):
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:
    I use wipe on wipe off Waterlox over spirit stain.
    The trick is to do the first coat really light and either don’t wipe it or wipe very softly.

    As you apply subsequent coats don’t get discouraged if there is dullness after coats 2 and 3 because after the 4th coat the colors pop.
     
  4. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    Location (City & State):
    Brandon, MS
    Spirit stains do not like wipe on solvent base. You can use lacquer. As to sealer if using colors I would forget about it. I usually use chestnut stains and then lacquer (minwax wipe on diluted 50-50) sprayed on with an airbrush. I buff with Beall at about 800
     
  5. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    529
    Location (City & State):
    Invermere, British Columbia
    Sanding sealer and thinned down lacquer are similar . You can just spray with lacquer.
    When I’m spraying cabinets at work I use a coat if sanding sealer then 2 coats of lacquer. If in a pinch or out of sealer I spray a light coat of lacquer in place of sanding sealer or i thin the lacquer 80/20 with thinner and spray first coat. Then 2 coats of pure lacquer. You end up with the same results in the end.
     
  6. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    Location (City & State):
    Brandon, MS
    There is a difference for sealer in that it is softer that the finish and was developed for the furniture industry to make sanding easier. Sealer also makes the finish coat dent easier.And as Glenn did point out and finish can also be a sealer if diluted down.
     
  7. Richard Coers

    Richard Coers

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,061
    Location (City & State):
    Peoria, Illinois
    Cellulose is another word for lacquer. Sanding sealer has an additive that makes it sand easily, nearly always zinc stearate. Sanding sealer is not just thin lacquer. Sanding sealer is softer and less water resistant than lacquer because of the zinc stearate and it can cause trouble with a hard finish applied on top of too heavy coating of sanding sealer. Does the Yorkshire grit have shellac in it? What do you get by adding that on top of lacquer sanding sealer? https://www.rockler.com/learn/when-to-use-sanding-sealer
     
  8. GRJensen

    GRJensen

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    188
    Location (City & State):
    Bay Settlement, WI
    No ... it is a paste with mineral oil, beeswax, and abrasives in it (e.g. rotten stone, diatomaceous earth, etc.). It forms a slurry that fills pores as it cuts. Manufacturer claims it produces a surface that is equivalent to one achieved with 1000 grit sandpaper.
     
  9. Larry Parker

    Larry Parker

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Location (City & State):
    Grottoes, VA
    My understanding is that Chestnut stains have shellac in them.
     
  10. Doug Freeman

    Doug Freeman

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Messages:
    253
    Location (City & State):
    Lebanon, Missouri
    When using a spirit stain, which in this brand contains shellac as a binder, the only reason to use a sealer is to reduce blotching. On turned items the blotching is usually desired, but its personal taste.

    For blotch control I usually use a thinned waterbase finish as the long open time allows more uneven absorption in varying grain - blotch control is simply putting something clear into the grain to reduce color absorption, reducing color variation. It doesn't draw color out it prevents it going in.

    Spray can bullseye shellac is dewaxed and can be topcoated with about anything, and can be used as a sealer. I forget the names, but there are 2 different tints, with one being pretty light. Amber and orange?

    Recommend you do a lot of experimenting with new to you coloring/finishing on scrap before committing to a completed turned project. Doesnt have to be the same wood, but similar.
     
  11. Ed Davidson

    Ed Davidson

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,070
    Location (City & State):
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Home Page:
    Here's a different approach...these smallish 2" x 3" broadleaf maple tops were sanded to 400 grit, no sealer used, colored with an alcohol based dye, let dry for about 10 minutes, then applied Yorkshire grit (which evened out and lightened the coloring), followed by a Beall buff:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
    James Penuel and hockenbery like this.
  12. James Penuel

    James Penuel

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Location (City & State):
    Fort Myers, FL
    Recently started using Yorkshire grit. My question is related to the mineral oil and beeswax. How does that impact additional finish? Seems like sanding sealer first would make sense to keep the mineral oil from soaking into raw wood and impairing adhesion of other finish. I read somewhere that dilute shellac works well as sanding sealer. Presumably this would be dewaxed shellac.
     
  13. Russell Nugent

    Russell Nugent

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2019
    Messages:
    165
    Location (City & State):
    Bashaw, Alberta
    I use a 50/50 mix of zinsser sealcoat and denatured alcohol, I generally use it when I'm going to be using an oil finish as it helps to even out the absorption of the finish between end and side grain. I've never had it interfere with an oil finish, I don't often use film finishes.
    I've never had yorkshire grit cause problems with an oil finish either.
     

Share This Page