Tool handle material

[pencheff]

Just bought a P&N spindle roughing gouge on sale from Woodcraft, unhandled. The price was right The tool looks great, nice and strong at the tang. I want to start using it but the only 10/4 lumber I have in stock to make a handle is red oak. I've never seen a turning tool with an oak handle. Why not?

I have some 8/4 cherry that might work but that's a bit slim leaving zero room for error. And again, I've never seen a cherry handle.

I have some 5/4 maple or 4/4 hickory that I could glue up into a 2"+ blanks for a handle but I never see laminated handles on turning tools. Why not? Strength or aesthetics?

Which way to go?

Or should I just exhibit some patience (that'd be a first) until I can score some 10/4 maple?

 

[MichaelMouse]

Oak splinters and splits. You don't really want either. Split resistance is most important, from driving the tool to the possibility of a catch. I like yellow birch with nice interlocked grain, or perhaps elm if you have it. The resilience of ash or hickory aren't that important, because it's not going to be used as a pry or striking tool.

That said, some of mine have cherry and maple, and seem to do just fine. Take the opportunity to make something which fits your hand and is short enough to swing all the way over the bed, unless you have one of those monster lathes.

 

[john lucas]

I have a lot of oak handles. They work just fine. I also have a lot of laminated handles. Never had problem with them either. I like the looks of the laminated handles and it allows me to use up scraps that are too small for other projects. I make oak and ash handles so I can experiment with finishes such as contrasting pore filler and such. That way if I screw it up it's only a tool handle not a big hollow vessel.
The only tool handles I've seen brocken were snapped right at the top of the ferrule. The wood is the thinnest there. If your tang goes beyond this point by an inch or so you shouldn't have any problems unless your really hard on your tools.
My favorite tool handle material is Holly but I don't get a lot of that in thicknesses that will work without glue up. I like holly just because it looks and feels great. Other than that it's not any different than other woods.

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

A local demostator I see quite often says 'If I can't turn very well at least I have good looking tools' Most of his handles are Birdseye maple.

Frank

He can turn quite well.

 

[woodwish]

I have made a few handles from Oak just due to it's availability, and not had any problems. The only concern with Oak is that it really doesn't turn well due to splintering, but that just becomes part of the challenge. Unlike many people it seems, I really love the look of Oak so it fits for me. I have noticed that Hamlet/Packard tools come with Oak or Ash handles with the cheaper steel but come with Rosewood handles for their more expensive steel. Seems the price of the handle material goes directly with the cost of the steel for the tool.

I think laminated anything, if properly done, would be fine as far strength goes. John Lucas mentioned some laminated handles and they sound really nice.

While we are on the subject of handles- there seems to be a trend to go to alluminum or steel handles for some of the newer tools instead of wood. I know it sounds old-fashioned but it just seems wrong to me. Wood turning tools should have wood handles! Or at least that is my opinion!

Another option I saw at the Symposium was one turner made handles from Sched 40 PVC pipe. He claimed it was light weight for traveling and easy to make, and also said he would only use them on smaller pieces. Can't imagine turning a large bowl with a large bowl gouge from PVC. Someone else was talking about PVC handles and said he half-filled them with sand to absorb vibrations. I'll still stick to wood, including Oak and laminated stock I think.

 

[Hugh]

I like Oak handles. One reason is that I have access to Black Oak. I have not had any problems with it at all. I got an Osage Orange tree a couple of years ago and I like that a bunch too. Heavier than the oak, but I like the feel. Nothing wrong with the oak though.
Hugh

 

[Chuck Wood]

You know, I've had some pretty straight grained Hickory lying around for awhile, and were thinking this would work pretty well too. I’ve read a lot about “alternative†handles like aluminum. It would seem pretty easy to fabricate but I like wood. Probably why I turn.

 

[underdog]

My theory is that if you use a good solid piece of wood, it doesn't much matter. I still wouldn't use a soft wood though, like Poplar or Aspen, Willow, Pine, etc.

Hickory would make quite a nice handle. Heavy, tough, and very strong. If you're going for density, this one would probably be in the upper percentiles.

Ash has always been a wood of choice for lots of tools, and Maple would make good handles as well.

I've seen quite a few Cherry handles on stuff, and I think if I had my choice that's what I'd use, because it's so pretty, and fairly hard.

Many of you speak of Oak as a good handle, but you fail to mention whether it's Red or White. I'd prefer White Oak for a handle, because Red Oak is so porous and light. White is closed cell, very fibrous and tough as well as being more dense.

Well... just thought I'd sling my opinion in there too! Hope y'all don't mind.

 

[Brian Hahn]

My favorite is shagbark hickory. I love the weight and feel. Hickory is very tough and hard wood and it is a traditional choice for handles that have to take a lot of shock and abuse - i.e. hammer handles.

Oak and ash are high on my list as well. The open grain means they don't slip as easily in my hands (unless you put ump-teen coats of varnish on them like the tool makers do.) I've a couple of cherry handles that are nice and they add a little variety to the handle color scheme.

Probably the most important thing is to have nice straight grain, especially in the area where the tang is embedded. Some of my handles have knots near the butt end. They add a little visual interest and don't weaken the handles at all.

 

[TurningDog]

I use what ever is on hand and have tools that range from 2x4 scrap to black walnut. You can use softer woods if you make the handle well and do a good job with the ferrule. People laugh at my my 2x4 scrap handled p&n roughing gouge but it has held up to a lot of abuse over the last 4 years since I meant to make it for only a temporary handle.

These days i try to make most of my handles out of honey locust or osage orange as they are tough and readily available, which are good traits to start with but since all my tools are slowly getting replaced with bob sweazy style shot filled handles it becomes even more important to me.

 

[tdrice]

I have always thought of cherry as being too brittle for tool handles but if you guys say it works I'll take your word for it. A couple of years ago some one gave me about 300 B/F of ashin the form of 2x2 and 3x3 sticks - makes great handles.
I never put a finish on a tool handle. Wood is a great non-slip material until you coat it with a bunch of sippery oils or varnishes. I also sand the finish off any handled tools I buy.

 

[pencheff]

Tool handle handled

Thanks all for the input. I made a handle from very straight grained red oak (I copied the profile of a Sorby bowl gouge handle). I've only tested it out so far but it feels okay.

Moreover it was fun to make! I think I'll make new handles for some of my other tools just for the pleasure and practice.

And while we're on the subject, all the articles I've read and vids I've seen mention using copper tubing or copper or brass fittings for the ferrule. I didn't have any on hand, but I did have some aluminum tubing of the right diameter so I used that. Any comments?

 

[Griesbach]

Greg,
I can't see any reason why the aluminum should be any problem.

 

[georgetroy]

Consider the Oneway handles, Kelton, Bosch and others like John Jordan. You can get a good grip with these. The Oneway & Kelton have holes for different sizes. Great for demos and for turners like me with Arthritis. GT

 

[Martin Braun]

...And while we're on the subject, all the articles I've read and vids I've seen mention using copper tubing or copper or brass fittings for the ferrule. I didn't have any on hand, but I did have some aluminum tubing of the right diameter so I used that. Any comments?

I was watching David Ellsworth's video the other day, and if I recall, he uses small diameter nylon rope wound tightly and CA glued as a ferrule on his hollow form tools. I haven't tried it yet, but might be something to experiment with. He seemed to imply that the nylon would do a better job keeping pressure on the wood as the wood dryed out as compared to copper.

 

[john lucas]

My favorite ferrule material is brass compression fittings. You can actually screw them on if you turn the tenon the right diameter although I usually screw and glue. Second favorite is brass pipe nipples. They come in lengths from about 4" to 12" or so and are thick enough to taper or turn some details into. They also come in several different ID sizes.
I've used brass tubing,coper tubing, aluminum tubing and one time in a hurry used dental floss than I lashed on and soaked in thin CA. It actaully lasted about 3 years before it came off.
I've used screw clamps on handles that needed to have removeable cutters.

 

[DeanGThomas]

Handle Woods

You know, I've had some pretty straight grained Hickory lying around for awhile, and were thinking this would work pretty well too. I’ve read a lot about “alternative†handles like aluminum. It would seem pretty easy to fabricate but I like wood. Probably why I turn.

Hickory worked well for shovels, axes, hammers and more, it'll work great for turning tool handles, too. And how 'bout its first cousin pecan. Had one guy tell me that it was his fave because of that intertwined thing. Don't know if it's true or not, but sounded good. Pretty handles, too.

 

[underdog]

I've wondered about the long term effects on our hands and arms of using steel or aluminum handles. It's a known fact that wooden floors are much better on your knees, ankles, and feet than concrete. Why would not the same be true of wood handles VS metal handles?

Aluminum is especially rigid and will transmit shock even better than steel will. A steel frame is preferred on road bikes because it flexes more, but it's heaver, so they've come up with lighter graphite and composite material that will flex and absorb shock. I ride an aluminum frame "hardtail" mountain bike on the road, and when I put some street tires on it, the shock it transferred to my "sit bones" was amplified immensely. I finally switched back to the knobbies to keep from hurting so bad.

I think wooden handles would be much better than steel or aluminum. If you do use aluminum or steel handles, I would recommend some kind of shock absorbing covering. I've seen rubber hose slipped up over some steel handles.

 

[Mark Mandell]

I've wondered about the long term effects on our hands and arms of using steel or aluminum handles. It's a known fact that wooden floors are much better on your knees, ankles, and feet than concrete. Why would not the same be true of wood handles VS metal handles?

Aluminum is especially rigid and will transmit shock even better than steel will. A steel frame is preferred on road bikes because it flexes more, but it's heaver, so they've come up with lighter graphite and composite material that will flex and absorb shock. I ride an aluminum frame "hardtail" mountain bike on the road, and when I put some street tires on it, the shock it transferred to my "sit bones" was amplified immensely. I finally switched back to the knobbies to keep from hurting so bad.

I think wooden handles would be much better than steel or aluminum. If you do use aluminum or steel handles, I would recommend some kind of shock absorbing covering. I've seen rubber hose slipped up over some steel handles.

Black foam pipe insulation works just fine. It's cheap, easy to apply, and easy to renew.

A couple of ounces of bird shot in the handle does well to dampen vibration. Homage to Gerry Glazer for that one.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Dog, Mark, help me out here. What kind of cut vibrates the tool other than a long overhang? I have never understood folks speaking of vibration from tools and denting toolrests. It's always seemed to me the objective was to make the cut smoothly, so I change the tool or presentation if it isn't. Easier on me, the equipment, and the piece I'm working on. I've cut a lot of wood on a lathe, and my comfort has always seemed to go hand in hand with a smooth cut. Tough to imagine a good one which would rattle the tool.

Can't understand heavy handles either. Means I have to support more weight, rather than the rest. Reason usually given is "balance," but the way a tool is used, what it needs is weight up front to gain balance.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Vibes, God & Bad

Most vibration I get is during roughing. Busting off peaks, then cutting air, then wood, then air, etc. tends to get a tool shaft vibrating, if not bouncing, a bit on the rest. There are also times when I don't stop to switch to an interior curved rest and just let the gouge hang out a bit in the transition zone. A dampening handle does well there as well. A couple of ounces in the handle makes no difference in the tool weight, but it gives the tool a very solid feel.

So too when hollowing, especially in dry wood, the cutter sets up harmonics in the tool shaft that transmit back to my wrist, arm, and shoulder. With non-operable CT and recurring B. Plexitis, I'll take all the help I can get. Indeed, my 3/4" Glazer gouge would sit in the rack without the bird shot in the handle that dampens the roughing vibrations. I added several ounces of bird shot to my Pro-Forme handle and noticed a definite reduction in transmitted vibration when hollowing. Hollowing is, of course, far off the rest.

My tool rests are pretty much ding-free, but all metals are subject to compression which is what occurs when the rest is the fulcrum, the tool shaft is several orders of hardness higher than the rest's metal, and the cutting technique (level handle) used is transmitting all of the cut-force into the rest. I therefore take a fine file to my rests from time-to-time when the tools don't seem to slide as smoothly.

 

[Matt Meadows]

I personally prefer hard maple. Readily available, fun to turn, pretty when finished (I do finish mine but it's only an asthetics thing, I have no problem gripping them, they're not slick).


My favorite, though, is my 10mm P&N bowl gouge. It was my first bowl gouge and has a cocobolo handle. The coco was free from the local Woodcraft, the owner let me have the blank b/c it had a few checks in it. Those turned right out. I don't use that gouge much anymore since I got the bigger bowl gouge that fits the elsworth jig, it has a hard maple handle.

I did make one scraper handle out of walnut. Not doing that again.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Most vibration I get is during roughing. Busting off peaks, then cutting air, then wood, then air, etc. tends to get a tool shaft vibrating, if not bouncing, a bit on the rest. There are also times when I don't stop to switch to an interior curved rest and just let the gouge hang out a bit in the transition zone. A dampening handle does well there as well. A couple of ounces in the handle makes no difference in the tool weight, but it gives the tool a very solid feel.

Of course a close rest takes away tool vibration best, there being no excuse, other than being lazy, to have a big overhang on convex shapes. I think an overhand grip is a great idea as well, because you sometimes add muscle reflex to the problem when using an underhand approach. Depending of work speed, you can get yourself into a hack/retract situation pretty easily.

You might help your case when roughing by taking a page from the old reciprocating lathe types. Since they only cut on the powered stroke, they took bites, thereby going from a newly created bevel-support area to a deeper or farther cut in small stages, rather than trying to cut continuously which sets up vibration. The guy on TV (?Hout/Houk?) is real big about spindle nibbling, and a bowl is just a spindle at 90 degrees, so the same scoop and peel technique works well.

With a firm overhand grip the gouge is quickly bevel-referenced to the area created by the previous scoop, then pivoted into the new area. With the roughing gouge or a broad-radius forged pattern you can swap width for depth of cut and peel almost one-handed once you have a bevel steady. The force of the work maintains the pressure on the rest, you're just providing direction. Lock and swing for your entry so you don't let the high spot get you into a hack and toss situation.

With 20+ years and a lot of work done on my old cast-iron Delta rests, the only thing that ever gave a ding was a stupid move on my part. You know the move, it's where you leave the tool in the piece and turn your head to switch the lathe off. Since the body starts to follow the head, it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Lock and swing for your entry so you don't let the high spot get you into a hack and toss situation.

When knocking the points off an octagon bowl blank out about 8-10" from center and cutting air in between, it won't make any difference. I nibble for sure, but with a 3/4" Glazer, they're big nibbles. I never use a underhand grip for roughing or forming; don't know where you got that impression. Can't put any weight onto the tool rest that way.

As far as I'm concerned, one-handed cutting is for show-offs, and is only good for getting others hurt when they try to copy it. I've seen a couple of demonstrators do it at wood shows. One looked up at the audience with an "ain't I cool?" smile just when the tool caught, ripped the tool out of his hand, and proved what the Lexan shield was for when that steel didn't land in some guy's chest who wanted to sit in the front row.

m

 

[MichaelMouse]

When knocking the points off an octagon bowl blank out about 8-10" from center and cutting air in between, it won't make any difference. I nibble for sure, but with a 3/4" Glazer, they're big nibbles. I never use a underhand grip for roughing or forming; don't know where you got that impression. Can't put any weight onto the tool rest that way.

As far as I'm concerned, one-handed cutting is for show-offs, and is only good for getting others hurt when they try to copy it. I've seen a couple of demonstrators do it at wood shows. One looked up at the audience with an "ain't I cool?" smile just when the tool caught, ripped the tool out of his hand, and proved what the Lexan shield was for when that steel didn't land in some guy's chest who wanted to sit in the front row.

m

Didn't know what grip you used, but glad to know that you aren't an underhander. True that underhanders are much more likely to have a bumpy time. I find the knuckle of the little finger to be as good a gage as an index finger when I need it, which is why most of them say they cut underhand, though most of my planing is by eye rather than touch.

A Glaser is a deep-flute, isn't it? Tougher to get a good broad shaving with a deep flute than a broad one, unless you're using a pull cut, which is not my idea of safe when roughing. Most use the wing-cutting alternative on that kind of gouge, if I'm looking at the right one on Glazer Hitec. Nose cutting goes deep rather than broad, and will certainly do some hand whacking. I've got a Serious 1" that qualifies as a heavyweight, but he's for obligatory overhangs only, as the flatter gouges will outpeel him six ways from Sunday.

As for showing off, you betcha! But it sure can be embarassing if you screw it up. Showing off and showing how sort of converge when you're talking about demonstrating a no pressure, no vibration cut. Short of having each student experience it, there's always a bit of lingering disbelief. Witness the folks who descend on yours rodently when I say I use a roughing gouge on all convex work.

Almost time for Norm. Not the right forum, but I'm going to be fettling a Stanley #5 I picked up this morning for five bucks as I watch. Sole is flat, tote intact, and shows great promise as a user. Now to figure if I should pass it to my eldest, who gets my old lathe when he comes back from Iraq, as well as a few other duplicates. He might get the Craftsman, and I'll keep this. A2 iron is obligatory purchase, though.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Glaser is a "V" flute which is favored by low-handle point-cutters. Go level and too much on the wings and that flute will clog but that doesn't matter when roughing and the chunks and bark are flying. I grind it with a shortened Ellsworth grind and a 70* nose angle. Works very well when rotating in from space. Once the big stuff is knocked off, I switch to the 1/2" Hamlets for the "real" cutting.

Enjoy your toy.

 

[TurningDog]

your tool is going to vibrate so long as it is touching the rest and your lathe is moving, and even worse if the tool is touching tthe work. While you may or may not notice the vibration it is there and will travel from the tool on up your hands and arms. While some of us are going to be more sensitive to vibrations issues than others if you do this long enough it will take its toll on your body, even those turners to dense to understand why anyone else has problems with this issue. (Interestingly enough I just had this conversation with the surgeon who will dong thumb and wrist surgery on me next week, she just happens to have gotten into turning recently so it was an interesting chat.) Back to the point vibration no matter what, it will always be present but there are a lot of things you can do to minimize it and its effects. Two of the all around best things are use tools with lots of mass (my 2 primary bowl tools for anything over 4" are a 3/4" gouge and 1"x1/2" thick scraper) and handles designed (either naturally or through a feat of engineering) to dampen it (wooden shot filled handles are wonderful). Good fingerless gloves also go a long way towards helping with vibration in some of us as do padded handles.

 

[MichaelMouse]

It will no doubt come as a shock to those who think they can use a fixed cutter against a moving billet to make a smooth surface. You'd expect chatter, right? Or does fixing the tool to the rest with something besides a hand and the force of the cut make a difference?

One thing for sure with a heavy handle, you have more to lift. But with a long one, you can resist a lot more force foreward of the fulcrum even when hogging. Archimedes was right.

Don't have it as a movie, but the handle here was steady as a rock, and the lathe is running. Disregard the "turning muscle," as it must belong to some imposter.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Michael,

I think we're now speaking on different things. The vibration we're talking about is not in the cut or the cause of chattermarks or a function of leverage. It's in the tool itself as it passes through the wood, and the lathe, all of which gets transmitted to the turner's body. Want to see it? Put a glass of water on your headstock and go to work; you can't miss the standing wave pattern. You may deem it slight or minimal, but for someone with tunnel carpal and other nerve issues in the arms and shoulders, that vibration over time in a turning session can be a serious problem. Anything that helps, HELPS.

BTW, if you turn like in the pic, you're giving away everything Archimedes taught you.