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Alternative Method of Setting V-arm For Various Nose Angles

Dennis J Gooding

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The Raptor Setup Tools thread is getting a bit long, so I will start anew.
John Lucas described a method of using various-length blocks to effectively change the V-arm position of the Vari-grind system to obtain desired nose angles on gouges. I use a different method to achieve the same end results. To me it seems to have some minor advantages.

Instead of using a fixed V-arm position and shimming inside the cup with a wood block to set a particular nose angle, I shim the space between the V-arm and the v-arm support. I use pieces of PVC pipe of lengths necessary to obtain the various desired nose angles. Each is slotted lengthwise to attain a snap fit over the V-arm. Three-quarter inch PVC is the best size, but one-inch PVC will work. I mark the corresponding nose angle on each piece using a marker pen.

Some of the minor advantages of this method are:

There is no practical limit to the range of nose angles that can be accommodated, whereas the length of the V-arm cup sets a limit on the range of nose angles that can be obtained by the block method with a single V-arm setting.

The PVC shim is firmly attached to the V-arm and cannot be accidenatly dislodged while grinding.

The white PVC shims will not get lost in the shavings if dropped.;)
fig1.jpgFig2.jpg
 
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Timothy Allen

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One observation:

The Raptor setup tools and similar devices key off of the grinding wheel itself when setting the position of the v-arm. This should be transferable from grinder to grinder, pretty much anywhere, regardless of how closely the installer of the wolverine system adhered to Oneway's guidance on positioning relative to the wheel.

On the other hand, devices such as what Dennis show, that key off the v-arm support/locking mechanism when setting the position of the v-arm, or John's shims in the v-arm pocket, might not be transferable to other grinder setups, given that not everyone may have installed their wolverine system in exactly the same relationship to the grinder wheel...

Generally, this shouldn't be a problem within one's own shop (because presumably one would set up all of their own grinders identically), but could possibly lead to unexpected results if visiting other shops and wanting to use your own setup tools for sharpening on someone else's grinder...

Just sayin'......
 
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Specifying the length of the arm protrusion also relies on the use of CBN wheels, which will stay a constant diameter.

I've also discovered the use of PVC pipe for this purpose. Works great.
 

john lucas

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Blocks in the V arm are dependent on one set up such CBN wheels that never change size. That is the advantage of CBN wheels. It makes everything more repeatable. My other home made angle settings jigs that I use instead of the raptor will.work.with any vri derived or wheel.set up. That's why I came up with them because i was traveling eli g and teaching and needed something to carry with me so i could duplicate my sharpening at home.
 

Dennis J Gooding

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Specifying the length of the arm protrusion also relies on the use of CBN wheels, which will stay a constant diameter.

I've also discovered the use of PVC pipe for this purpose. Works great.Like Like

Yes and no, Karl. Stone wheels abrade very slowly so it would take quite a while before the change in nose angle would become significant for most turners. The neat thing about the PVC approach is that the wear of the wheel can be compensated by sanding off a bit of each PVC shim. With the block method, you would have to cut longer blocks.

A related issue is whether you need a separate set of shims for each wheel. I advocate mounting the V-arm brackets and the grinder such that for any given extension of the V-arm, the distance from the pocket to the associated wheel is exactly the same. This will allow you to switch from coarse to fine wheels by simply pulling the V-arm and attached PVC shim out of one V-arm bracket and inserting it into the other bracket. In the case of stone wheels, this might require tweaking the mountings if the wheels wear down at different rates.
 
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One friend used pieces of angle steel, that L shaped stuff. Cut to lengths. Of course, it works best with CBN wheels. I have always used stop blocks on my table saw and chop saws for repeated cuts the same size.

robo hippy
 

Dennis J Gooding

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Dennis, what's the best way you found to safely cut the 3/4" pvc pipe along it's length?
Ricc, I use a bandsaw, but DO NOT hold the PVC directly in my hands. I generally stand the PVC on end and pinch it between two blocks of wood to guide the sawing. If I were doing a lot of these, I would cut V notches in the two blocks to better control the cut.
 

Dennis J Gooding

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One observation:

The Raptor setup tools and similar devices key off of the grinding wheel itself when setting the position of the v-arm. This should be transferable from grinder to grinder, pretty much anywhere, regardless of how closely the installer of the wolverine system adhered to Oneway's guidance on positioning relative to the wheel.

On the other hand, devices such as what Dennis show, that key off the v-arm support/locking mechanism when setting the position of the v-arm, or John's shims in the v-arm pocket, might not be transferable to other grinder setups, given that not everyone may have installed their wolverine system in exactly the same relationship to the grinder wheel...

Generally, this shouldn't be a problem within one's own shop (because presumably one would set up all of their own grinders identically), but could possibly lead to unexpected results if visiting other shops and wanting to use your own setup tools for sharpening on someone else's grinder...

Just sayin'......

I agree with you Timothy. Using the PVC or the wooden block approach on a foreign grinder presents a problem.
 

Tom Gall

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Dennis, what's the best way you found to safely cut the 3/4" pvc pipe along it's length?
I've been using PVC for setting my Wolverine jig for as long as I can remember....for all the reasons that Dennis mentions. No need to cut the PVC lengthwise! I just put it in the pocket (like your tool) and butt it up against the top of the Wolverine base tube. Any diameter can be used with this method- I have 3 different sizes....just because that is what I had at the time. Any material can be used - wood, angle iron (steel or aluminum) or even vinyl trim pieces that can be found in the Deck or Fencepost dept. of the big box stores. But PVC pipe is probably the easiest to work with ... and the cheapest.
 

Dennis J Gooding

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I've been using PVC for setting my Wolverine jig for as long as I can remember....for all the reasons that Dennis mentions. No need to cut the PVC lengthwise! I just put it in the pocket (like your tool) and butt it up against the top of the Wolverine base tube. Any diameter can be used with this method- I have 3 different sizes....just because that is what I had at the time. Any material can be used - wood, angle iron (steel or aluminum) or even vinyl trim pieces that can be found in the Deck or Fencepost dept. of the big box stores. But PVC pipe is probably the easiest to work with ... and the cheapest.

It is a matter of taste; they both work the same. The slotted tube method saves the second or two required to pull out the arm, thread the tube onto the arm and reinsert the arm. Not a big deal.
 

Tom Gall

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It is a matter of taste; they both work the same. The slotted tube method saves the second or two required to pull out the arm, thread the tube onto the arm and reinsert the arm. Not a big deal.
Dennis, I never pull out the arm. If I had to do that I would come up with something else.
"I just put it in the pocket (like your tool) and butt it up against the top of the Wolverine base (female) tube"
 
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Dennis, I never pull out the arm. If I had to do that I would come up with something else.
"I just put it in the pocket (like your tool) and butt it up against the top of the Wolverine base (female) tube"
I do the same with a wooden gauge block to set the difference. HOWEVER I can see the advantage of the PVC as it will stay in place and can be written on with the angle or house it is used with. I have been known to be in such a rush to sharpen that I assume, incorrectly, that the arm is at the spot I think it is only to find out a little late that it needed to be reset. Having a chuck of labeled PVC on the arm might help save me a little resharpening time.
 
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1619050288003.jpeg
And there it is, a picture. No words needed. Thank, you!
 
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The Raptor Setup Tools thread is getting a bit long, so I will start anew.
John Lucas described a method of using various-length blocks to effectively change the V-arm position of the Vari-grind system to obtain desired nose angles on gouges. I use a different method to achieve the same end results. To me it seems to have some minor advantages.

Instead of using a fixed V-arm position and shimming inside the cup with a wood block to set a particular nose angle, I shim the space between the V-arm and the v-arm support. I use pieces of PVC pipe of lengths necessary to obtain the various desired nose angles. Each is slotted lengthwise to attain a snap fit over the V-arm. Three-quarter inch PVC is the best size, but one-inch PVC will work. I mark the corresponding nose angle on each piece using a marker pen.

Some of the minor advantages of this method are:

There is no practical limit to the range of nose angles that can be accommodated, whereas the length of the V-arm cup sets a limit on the range of nose angles that can be obtained by the block method with a single V-arm setting.

The PVC shim is firmly attached to the V-arm and cannot be accidenatly dislodged while grinding.

The white PVC shims will not get lost in the shavings if dropped.;)
View attachment 38307View attachment 38308
Thanks for pic. Great idea.
 
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The Raptor Setup Tools thread is getting a bit long, so I will start anew.
John Lucas described a method of using various-length blocks to effectively change the V-arm position of the Vari-grind system to obtain desired nose angles on gouges. I use a different method to achieve the same end results. To me it seems to have some minor advantages.

Instead of using a fixed V-arm position and shimming inside the cup with a wood block to set a particular nose angle, I shim the space between the V-arm and the v-arm support. I use pieces of PVC pipe of lengths necessary to obtain the various desired nose angles. Each is slotted lengthwise to attain a snap fit over the V-arm. Three-quarter inch PVC is the best size, but one-inch PVC will work. I mark the corresponding nose angle on each piece using a marker pen.

Some of the minor advantages of this method are:

There is no practical limit to the range of nose angles that can be accommodated, whereas the length of the V-arm cup sets a limit on the range of nose angles that can be obtained by the block method with a single V-arm setting.

The PVC shim is firmly attached to the V-arm and cannot be accidenatly dislodged while grinding.

The white PVC shims will not get lost in the shavings if dropped.;)
View attachment 38307View attachment 38308
that is how I do it....but I mark them "Bowl Gouge","spindle Gouge", etc.
 
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I can dig the blocks solution or the PVC one. Thanks for the info. Definitely going to use something like this. Blue tape or a sharpie wear over time.
 
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