Is there a way to eliminate the AM radio interference in my home when using the Jet 1642 lathe? The problem is caused from the power converter.
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AM radio interference
- Thread starter cwearing
- Start date
Depends... If the problem is seen in a battery powered radio (like the car radio), the answer is no. If the problem is seen in AC powered radio, you can get an EMI/RFI plug-in suppressor that will take care of the RFI on the power line.
My bet is it's radiated noise (see battery comment) and you are sunk. Me, I listen to FM, as the Nova DVR-XP is radiated noise
My bet is it's radiated noise (see battery comment) and you are sunk. Me, I listen to FM, as the Nova DVR-XP is radiated noise
Bill Grumbine
In Memorium
I had the same problem with the Poolewood. In my case though, the only radio affected was the one in the shop, since the house, and any neighbors houses, are too far away for any problems. I tested that out. My solution actually had nothing to do with dampening the noise from the lathe. I was sick to death of the noise from the radio - constant screaming car commercials about how this week's sale was the best ever, better than last week's sale even, and the constant furniture store commercials, and the constant [insert commercial topic here].
So, I put an XM radio in the shop. Even better, I got the one that can be carried about, so it goes into the truck in a matter of seconds as well. Now I can listen to a lot of stuff I have never heard before, or stuff I haven't heard in a long time. On AM I enjoyed some of the various talk shows, but they are hard to follow with the lathe on. Besides, sometimes they would get me "exercised" and I would lose my concentration. FM stations, regardless of their focus, seem to play the same old 50 songs over and over again. One local station was so bad that I took to calling it "All Bruce, all the time". The last song, the next song, or the the current song was almost guaranteed to be one by Bruce Springsten, and I didn't even like him when I was younger. But I digress.
With XM you can get a whole lot more in the way of offerings, and the sound is better to boot. Yeah it costs some, but it is worth it to avoid the commercials on the music channels.
Bill
So, I put an XM radio in the shop. Even better, I got the one that can be carried about, so it goes into the truck in a matter of seconds as well. Now I can listen to a lot of stuff I have never heard before, or stuff I haven't heard in a long time. On AM I enjoyed some of the various talk shows, but they are hard to follow with the lathe on. Besides, sometimes they would get me "exercised" and I would lose my concentration. FM stations, regardless of their focus, seem to play the same old 50 songs over and over again. One local station was so bad that I took to calling it "All Bruce, all the time". The last song, the next song, or the the current song was almost guaranteed to be one by Bruce Springsten, and I didn't even like him when I was younger. But I digress.
With XM you can get a whole lot more in the way of offerings, and the sound is better to boot. Yeah it costs some, but it is worth it to avoid the commercials on the music channels.
Bill
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Call Jet. There have been discussions about this and Oneway sells an RF filter that solves the problem. I seem to remember that the Jet service people were able to help.
I haven't listened to AM since the 60's so I can't help there. I have serious radio so I will agree with Bill. You pick what ever style of music or talk you like and just switch to that. No commercials or mindless jabber. I do miss getting local news but our local radio stations suck, except for the news.
I haven't listened to AM since the 60's so I can't help there. I have serious radio so I will agree with Bill. You pick what ever style of music or talk you like and just switch to that. No commercials or mindless jabber. I do miss getting local news but our local radio stations suck, except for the news.
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Could be. Assume you're inducing voltage in the cord or antenna, and try to trap it out. Ferrite chokes on the cord could help, as could distance between the antenna and the radio, as long as you filtered the leads. It's Amplitude Modulation, so any induced power will be interpreted as signal. Caging the controller can help, too.
You are plugging in on a different circuit to prevent problems there?
You are plugging in on a different circuit to prevent problems there?
Some good suggestions already listed.
The originating source of your interference will determine what action, if any, will be effective in solving your problem. Apparently we don't know whether the source of your RF interference is the result of localized RF radiation or if it's simply traveling along the power lines throughout your house; and I assume you don't have access to a spectrum analyzer. Here's a list of things to try that could help:
1. Try obtaining power for your lathe from a circuit other than the one from which your radio receives its power.
2. Grab a hunk of #10 (or larger) copper wire and connect one end to a bolt or other very secure point on the frame of your lathe, the other end to a good earth ground.
3. Build a wire "cage" to enclose the power converter on your lathe and solder a ground wire to it, then run the ground wire to a good earth ground.
4. Last, but not least, check the primary ground for the structure to make sure it hasn't corroded and weakened its ground potential.
OR: [b]http://www.toroid.com/index.html[/b]
The originating source of your interference will determine what action, if any, will be effective in solving your problem. Apparently we don't know whether the source of your RF interference is the result of localized RF radiation or if it's simply traveling along the power lines throughout your house; and I assume you don't have access to a spectrum analyzer. Here's a list of things to try that could help:
1. Try obtaining power for your lathe from a circuit other than the one from which your radio receives its power.
2. Grab a hunk of #10 (or larger) copper wire and connect one end to a bolt or other very secure point on the frame of your lathe, the other end to a good earth ground.
3. Build a wire "cage" to enclose the power converter on your lathe and solder a ground wire to it, then run the ground wire to a good earth ground.
4. Last, but not least, check the primary ground for the structure to make sure it hasn't corroded and weakened its ground potential.
OR: [b]http://www.toroid.com/index.html[/b]
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cwearing said:
My 3520 had/has the same problem. It only affects my neighbor, he and I share the same power transformer. Short answer, I don't usually turn during the one hour per day that he uses his AM radio. There is a filter available, attaches to the machines cord, as already mentioned.
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The answer is yes, the noise can be controlled and by law the controllers are required to demonstrate that they meet FCC Part 15 requirements for radiated emissions. In practice, it is a system issue for the lathe and the lathe manufacturers seem to be playing dumb on the issue although it is their responsibility to meet Part 15.
Since these are radiated emissions that we are talking about, there is nothing that can be done on the receiving end to eliminate noise other than to turn the receiver off. RF filters on the receiver don't know the difference between signal and noise.
There are two devices that should be used in conjunction with the variable speed controllers and the three phase motors. The first is a line reactor. In addition to reducing conducted and radiated RF interference, the line reactor also improves the efficiency of the VFD by raising the input power impedance. It works by decoupling the nonlinear impedance of the VFD from the nominally very low impedance of the power system. The second device is a load reactor, which is installed between the VFD and the motor. The electronic switching into the inductive load of the motor results in very large voltage transients that can cause significant radiated interference. By using a load reactor, not only is EMI reduced, but also the motor will run cooler and last longer because the chopped square wave begins to look more like a sine wave after filtering. Using line and load reactors is standard practice in industry, but since they would add around $100 to the cost of a lathe, manufacturers of non-industrial machines avoid them like the plague.
Bill
Since these are radiated emissions that we are talking about, there is nothing that can be done on the receiving end to eliminate noise other than to turn the receiver off. RF filters on the receiver don't know the difference between signal and noise.
There are two devices that should be used in conjunction with the variable speed controllers and the three phase motors. The first is a line reactor. In addition to reducing conducted and radiated RF interference, the line reactor also improves the efficiency of the VFD by raising the input power impedance. It works by decoupling the nonlinear impedance of the VFD from the nominally very low impedance of the power system. The second device is a load reactor, which is installed between the VFD and the motor. The electronic switching into the inductive load of the motor results in very large voltage transients that can cause significant radiated interference. By using a load reactor, not only is EMI reduced, but also the motor will run cooler and last longer because the chopped square wave begins to look more like a sine wave after filtering. Using line and load reactors is standard practice in industry, but since they would add around $100 to the cost of a lathe, manufacturers of non-industrial machines avoid them like the plague.
Bill
boehme said:
Sorry Bill, but Part 15 applies to consumer devices, industrial tools, like Lathes, are not considered consumer devices Even though the majority are sold to hobbyist, they are not considered a consumer device.
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Nope! Not mistaken! You must be thinking about type certification. Part 15 applies to any product made -- electronic or not.n7bsn said:
A good part of my career involved designing electronic equipment to meet EMI/EMC requiements on aircraft. My work also included conducting validation testing on this equipment in shielded RF anechoic facilities. I don't think that this would be considered consumer devices by any stretch. A non-electronic example had to do with automotive ignition systems back in the 60's when they were purely electrical (like everything else, electronics have now crept in to even that area). If you operated amateur equipment back in the early 60's you remember that you could hear a Ford coming from half a mile away by the amount of interference that the ignition system generated. It took a lot of effort to move a company with so much inertia, but they finally complied with the FCC rules on harmful interference.
Bill
p.s. -- My Baldor industrial electronic motor controllers are certified that they comply with FCC Part 15 requirements on interference when used in a properly engineered installation (which would include the use of line and load reactors).
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Shielding
What one must remember is that some receivers don't take the noise in from the antenna but due to a lack of shielding or careless design pick up the radiation in circuits after the front end of the receiver. I have seen interference picked up from extremely clean transmitters due to poor design of the receiver. If this is the case it won't matter what you do, it won't fix it.
Vernon
What one must remember is that some receivers don't take the noise in from the antenna but due to a lack of shielding or careless design pick up the radiation in circuits after the front end of the receiver. I have seen interference picked up from extremely clean transmitters due to poor design of the receiver. If this is the case it won't matter what you do, it won't fix it.
Vernon
Thanks for addressing that, Vernon. I had forgotten about a 10 meter interference problem I had many years ago with a neighbor's poorly designed "budget priced" TV set.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Oneway has the same problem that's why they sell the filter.
If I were to spend that kind of money at my advanced age it would be for a Robust---not Oneway!!!!!!!!!!
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The CD (that came with my 1642 lathe) for the motor controller shows how to add the optional filters.
I also have a Hitachi controller for another machine and the information is very similar, if not the same.
You can download a manual from the Delta Electronics website (Type S):
http://www.delta.com.tw/product/em/ac_motor/ac_motor_manual.asp
<No relation to Delta Machinery.>
The diagrams in the manual clearly show two optional components that should be, but are apparently not standard with the Jet lathe:
1)
zero-phase reactor (ferrite core common choke)... used to reduce radio noise especially when audio equipment is installed near the inverter. Effective for noise reduction on the input and output sides. Attenuation quality is good for a wide range from AM band to 10MHz.
2)
emi filter... To reduce electromagnetic interference.
The buzz is porportional to the motor speed and highly annoying. My cheap-o solution: I listen to FM instead of AM.
BH
BH
I also have a Hitachi controller for another machine and the information is very similar, if not the same.
You can download a manual from the Delta Electronics website (Type S):
http://www.delta.com.tw/product/em/ac_motor/ac_motor_manual.asp
<No relation to Delta Machinery.>
The diagrams in the manual clearly show two optional components that should be, but are apparently not standard with the Jet lathe:
1)
zero-phase reactor (ferrite core common choke)... used to reduce radio noise especially when audio equipment is installed near the inverter. Effective for noise reduction on the input and output sides. Attenuation quality is good for a wide range from AM band to 10MHz.
2)
emi filter... To reduce electromagnetic interference.
The buzz is porportional to the motor speed and highly annoying. My cheap-o solution: I listen to FM instead of AM.
BH
BH
CWearing,
Assuming you don't do the filter thing, and perhaps don't want to spend the dollars on satellite radio (I live where the satellites don't shine)....if you have broadband access at your house and can either run an ethernet cable to your garage or receive a wifi signal out there then you can get internet radio. The shows you are listening to on AM are probably available on the internet.
Dave
Assuming you don't do the filter thing, and perhaps don't want to spend the dollars on satellite radio (I live where the satellites don't shine)....if you have broadband access at your house and can either run an ethernet cable to your garage or receive a wifi signal out there then you can get internet radio. The shows you are listening to on AM are probably available on the internet.
Dave