Baltic Birch Plywood

[Thom Schuck]

Fellow turning Genius’s,
What do all you folks know about turning Baltic Birch Plywood. I sware it killed my Crown PM Rougher in one pass. Is it me being a rookie or should I just say this is just a bad idea? I have worked on the blank several times over the past month. I sharpen up the very best I can using the Wolverine. It’s like turning a rock. I get noware. Until someone gives me a green light it is not going back on my machine. Frustrated is not the word. I am done with it. Level with me here… is it me or is it just a bad idea to turn BBP. I want to saw it into strips using my new Harvey Bandsaw but I just hung a new Timberwolf blade on it and I sure dont what to damage it. That’s it…. Lemme know what you know fact or fiction. I also will consider selling the block for the right price!
You Pal,
Thom Schuck
Portland, Oregon

 

[Brian Gustin]

I'd have to say it would be 95% you being a rookie... Just look at all the Spectra-ply projects (Similar to Baltic Birch but colored plies) I have turned BB , and regular plywood with no trouble.. can't be any worse that turning poured epoxy blanks, or blanks with soft "stone" patches (such as turquoise, copper, etc) First name that comes to mind to ask about more detail (far more experience with it than me) would have to be Ed Davidson, I know he does a lot of spectra ply projects (his Yo-Yos, for one) and I am sure there's quite a few more experienced folks when it comes to turning Plywood... but I for one have had no trouble with any of it.

 

[Michael Anderson]

I agree with Brian. Also, maybe consider a bowl gouge instead of a roughing gouge. I think the alternating grain of each ply would make it challenging for a relatively new turner (your words) to get a smooth surface with a roughing gouge.

 

[Gary W Miller]

I agree with those before me. I have turned baltic Birch and airplane grade without a problem. I 'm curious; how big is the blank? How wide is it and how long? Is it being turned like a spindle or a bowl? If you're using a spindle roughing gouge on something equivalent to a bowl blank you're in dangerous territory. Even a very large diameter "spindle" blank could cause troubles because of the alternating end-grain. A spindle roughing gouge takes a big bite and hitting endgrain could exacerbate the problem. I agree with Michael, use a sharp bowl gouge and ride that bevel to control the depth of cut whatever you do.

 

[Tom Gall]

I agree with the others about your problem.
HOWEVER, the reason for my reply is the placement of your post. "Forum Technical Support" is for problems and issues with the Forum ... technical computer forum stuff! Your type of question/post should be in the "Woodturning Discussion Forum". It is relatively rare to see a post here in Technical Support.

 

[John Whitley]

If you're using a spindle roughing gouge on something equivalent to a bowl blank you're in dangerous territory.

I think this should be stated more strongly. I’ll argue that there isn’t a safe orientation for a spindle roughing gouge on plywood. Commercial plywood has the grain of the plies running in alternating directions, that being largely the point of plywood structurally. That in turn means nearly any orientation of the blank on the lathe will present endgrain to the edge of the spindle roughing gouge – and that is the very definition of the danger zone for that tool.

For newer turners: there was a craft-wide effort to “rename” the SPINDLE roughing gouge to include the word “spindle” at the beginning at all times due to reinforce the danger of this particular catch. All demonstrations I’ve seen of this big no-no are done with the lathe off, for that reason. It’s too risky.

 

[Thom Schuck]

I'd have to say it would be 95% you being a rookie... Just look at all the Spectra-ply projects (Similar to Baltic Birch but colored plies) I have turned BB , and regular plywood with no trouble.. can't be any worse that turning poured epoxy blanks, or blanks with soft "stone" patches (such as turquoise, copper, etc) First name that comes to mind to ask about more detail (far more experience with it than me) would have to be Ed Davidson, I know he does a lot of spectra ply projects (his Yo-Yos, for one) and I am sure there's quite a few more experienced folks when it comes to turning Plywood... but I for one have had no trouble with any of it.

Ok… thank you. Now that we know it’s the nut on the back end of the tool should i raise my tool bar up or down off center line? I have tried both. Please note. I have not moved on past my rougher. I have had a few bowl fly off my machine and go wizzzing by every which way so I am a bit gun shy so to speak. I am not real strong either. 14lbs is my rated limit. Not as an excuse but more FYI I turn in my wheelchair so getting into certain positions can be a bit difficult for me at times. I am bull headed and OCD.I am determined to get this plywood turning down. I love the look of BBP when it is done right. Thank you for helping me along.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Ok… thank you. Now that we know it’s the nut on the back end of the tool should i raise my tool bar up or down off center line? I have tried both. Please note. I have not moved on past my rougher. I have had a few bowl fly off my machine and go wizzzing by every which way so I am a bit gun shy so to speak. I am not real strong either. 14lbs is my rated limit. Not as an excuse but more FYI I turn in my wheelchair so getting into certain positions can be a bit difficult for me at times. I am bull headed and OCD.I am determined to get this plywood turning down. I love the look of BBP when it is done right. Thank you for helping me along.

As others noted, you'd be better off selecting a different gouge than a Spindle Roughing Gouge - They simply are not made for cross grain turning, really. Almost anything else might do the job as long as it does not have those steep parallel sides on the flute - most any other gouge is going to have a bit of sweep to the wings, so they are far less likely to catch (Which is probably WHY you have had a number of launches)

That said, you want your cutting edge to be slightly above center and bevel "almost-contact" (The bevel should be rubbing the wood, but the wood shouldn't know it) - the bevel supports the cutting edge and keeps the gouge from cutting deeper as it tries to follow grain - so you'd adjust tool rest and position tool to achieve that gliding contact where the cutting edge is just beginning to cut. It may help to place tool on with lathe turned off and "eyeball" where the tool sits when the bevel is flat against the surface of the wood , giving you an optimum angle to be holding the tool on the rest, and then adjust the tool rest to get the cutting edge to be a bit above center. There's plenty of wheelchair bound turners on the forums and within the membership, so your situation isn't at all unusual.. but to get it started I'd focus on lathe off to figure out how to hold & position the tool to get the bevel of the tool to sit flat on surface of the wood (assuming the wood face is flat - or visualize it that way) and then experiment a bit with tool rest height to find your comfort zone while being able to have cutting edge at about or a bit above center until you can get a nice smooth slicing cut - once you have the cut mastered so you know what it feels and sounds like (bevel supported cuts) then you can experiment a bit more with getting tool rest, lathe height, etc to find something comfortable for you.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Fellow turning Genius’s,
What do all you folks know about turning Baltic Birch Plywood. I sware it killed my Crown PM Rougher in one pass. Is it me being a rookie or should I just say this is just a bad idea? I have worked on the blank several times over the past month. I sharpen up the very best I can using the Wolverine. It’s like turning a rock. I get noware. Until someone gives me a green light it is not going back on my machine. Frustrated is not the word. I am done with it. Level with me here… is it me or is it just a bad idea to turn BBP. I want to saw it into strips using my new Harvey Bandsaw but I just hung a new Timberwolf blade on it and I sure dont what to damage it. That’s it…. Lemme know what you know fact or fiction. I also will consider selling the block for the right price!
You Pal,
Thom Schuck
Portland, Oregon

I bought some knockoff BB plywood several years ago at one of the big box stores that was glued with a foul smelling resin that was really hard on saw blades. So, it’s possible that the resin in the wood is dulling the tool, but I agree with the others that based on what you have said, you’re at the beginner stage where you’re traumatized in anticipation of the next bowl shattering catch from Hell or launching bowls into low-earth orbit without prelaunch clearance from NASA. We’ve all been there. We feel your pain. And it’s a wonderful feeling when you finally get past that stage and can finally enjoy turning.

First thing, stop using your SPINDLE ROUGHING GOUGE unless you’re actually roughing a spindle. That’s the only place you should use it. Get a carbide tool … I like the Hunter tools because you can make bevel rubbing cuts with them. The scraping carbide tools (Easy Wood Tools, et. Al.) do a decent job on difficult wood.

I have a gut feeling that you might be using your SRG like a scraper. That’s a typical cause of getting torn grain and sending bowls into orbit.

Tool rest height is somewhat a matter of your convenience and comfort when using a tool so that the cutting edge can be properly presented to the wood. Finding the right lathe bed height and tool rest height so that you are comfortable are critically important.

Just in case you get Hunter carbide tools, here is the "ABC" rule for bevel rubbing cuts:

• A = Anchor the tool on the tool rest.
• B = Bevel contact. With the lathe running present the bevel to the wood, but the wood isn’t being cut.
• C = Cut. Raise the handle just a small amount until the tool starts cutting the wood.

 

[hockenbery]

Fellow turning Genius’s,
What do all you folks know about turning Baltic Birch Plywood. I sware it killed my Crown PM Rougher in one pass. Is it me being a rookie or should I just say this is just a bad idea? I have worked on the blank several times over the past month. I sharpen up the very best I can using the Wolverine. It’s like turning a rock. I get noware. Until someone gives me a green light it is not going back on my machine. Frustrated is not the word. I am done with it. Level with me here… is it me or is it just a bad idea to turn BBP. I want to saw it into strips using my new Harvey Bandsaw but I just hung a new Timberwolf blade on it and I sure dont what to damage it. That’s it…. Lemme know what you know fact or fiction. I also will consider selling the block for the right price!
You Pal,
Thom Schuck
Portland, Oregon

Plywood has a high glue content so it will dull tools more quickly.
That said lots of folks turn plywood with great success and some extra sharpening.

Like @Bill Boehme said A B C….
also as much as possible cut toward the face of the ply’s with ply’s supporting the cut.

Sharp bowl gouge
Light cuts

Steve Gleasner was in my club for many years. He got carried away with plywood in a good way.
He took advantage of how the alternating grain reflected light.
Steve often said he had become a glue turner.

 

[robo hippy]

The glue in any commercial wood product is harder than the wood and will dull all edges faster than most woods, and this includes carbides. I turned a glue lam once, and it really dulled the edges of my M42 and V10 tools. If your tools are not M2, then you will have a much harder time. Similar to Baltic birch is "apple ply" which is an American version of the same product.

What are you attempting to turn? SRGs are not good to use on bowls.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Alston]

I’ve had no problem turning Birch Ply but as said tool wear is an issue. I found starting with carbide and finishing with HSS the best way to go. Carbide outlasts HSS by a massive amount and the flat inserts are easily resharpened on a diamond plate. In fact, some of my resharpened inserts seemed to be sharper than when I first bought them.

I actually have a Diamond coated (on carbide substrate) detail tool which could be good except it’s far too small for anything other than detail work. You can buy larger diamond inserts but they aren’t cheap and of course you can’t resharpen them!

 

[Patton Buchan]

Baltic birch plywood has 2 major problems. 1. it is hugely abrasive with dense end fibers and adhesives and 2. it is can only be sourced from Russia. Years ago I used Baltic birch plywood in making a Longworth Chuck and had no issues in trueing the disc using a very sharp (M4) bowl gouge. It actually machines beautifully and is great for fixtures, faceplates, jigs and cabinets. A spindle roughing gouge has no place in turning this super dense plywood.

 

[Dean Center]

Ok… thank you. Now that we know it’s the nut on the back end of the tool should i raise my tool bar up or down off center line? I have tried both. Please note. I have not moved on past my rougher. I have had a few bowl fly off my machine and go wizzzing by every which way so I am a bit gun shy so to speak. I am not real strong either. 14lbs is my rated limit. Not as an excuse but more FYI I turn in my wheelchair so getting into certain positions can be a bit difficult for me at times. I am bull headed and OCD.I am determined to get this plywood turning down. I love the look of BBP when it is done right. Thank you for helping me along.

You've asked good questions and I am going to make something of a leap in response to them. Get yourself a mentor or some lessons. One session with an experienced turner will provide you a foundation of safe turning knowledge and techniques, that will prevent harm to you and mostly stop the wood blanks from flying all over the place. By doing so, you will also make progress in your turning dramatically faster than going it alone, with DVDs and Youtube.

To find a mentor in your area, first find your local woodturning club. You can look for it on the main AAW web site (woodturner.org), click on Chapters, then Find a, then Chapters again, and search for a club. (Probably the one in Redmond) Then look up the club's website and attend a meeting or try some of the contacts provided.

BTW, experienced turners don't need a lot of strength, but beginners often apply plenty to the process. Eventually, their technique gets better and they don't have to use much strength.

 

[Dean Center]

You've asked good questions and I am going to make something of a leap in response to them. Get yourself a mentor or some lessons. One session with an experienced turner will provide you a foundation of safe turning knowledge and techniques, that will prevent harm to you and mostly stop the wood blanks from flying all over the place. By doing so, you will also make progress in your turning dramatically faster than going it alone, with DVDs and Youtube.

To find a mentor in your area, first find your local woodturning club. You can look for it on the main AAW web site (woodturner.org), click on Chapters, then Find a, then Chapters again, and search for a club. (Probably the one in Redmond) Then look up the club's website and attend a meeting or try some of the contacts provided.

BTW, experienced turners don't need a lot of strength, but beginners often apply plenty to the process. Eventually, their technique gets better and they don't have to use much strength.

OOPS. Somehow I incorrectly got the idea that the OP's home was in the Seattle area, so the mention of Redmond should be ignored, but the basic recommendation still applies.