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Bandsaw blade question.......

Odie

Odie

Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
TOTW Team
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About a year ago, I purchased two Timberwolf band saw blades from Woodcraft. I've been experiencing some difficulties with these blades. Although the packaging is long gone, I've determined that both these blades are "positive claw" blades. I don't know what that means, but every once in awhile I've had these blades catch on the wood and stop the band saw. I'm thinking these are straight teeth with no "set".

Would the better choice be an alternate set tooth configuration.

The blades are 3/8 and 1/2 wide, 3tpi and 4tpi respectively.

99.99 percent of my band saw use is simply to knock off the corners of bowl blanks in a circular cut. Most of the time these blades work perfectly, but when there's trouble, the catches occur and I usually have to remount the blade to the wheels several times before I can get the corners cut off a single bowl blank. I had this trouble again the other day on a piece of Goncalo Alves. Not every piece of Goncalo Alves was a problem, but this one sure was. I've used the band saw a half dozen times since the troublesome Goncalo Alves......and, it's been cutting well before and after that piece of wood.

I'd like to order an alternate set 3tpi blade, if the positive claw configuration is not the best for this application......

Input please......

ooc
 
Doug Stevens said:
Hi Odie,

I don't know if you have tried these before, but here is a link to the best blade I've ever found for cutting green bowl blanks on the bandsaw. I've been using blades from this source for the past 10 years. Here's the link, http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodturners-bandsaw-blades.aspx

Doug
Click to expand...

OK, thanks for the link, Doug. I've been doing a little researching tonight, and it looks like 3/8" 3tpi alternate set is the way to go. I see these are .032" wide, and the Timberwolf is .025".....probably better.

My only concern would be.......I cut bowl blanks from KD 8 percent MC, all the way up to a very wet 36 percent MC +/-. I would prefer to have one blade to do it all. So, would you recommend this blade for the whole spectrum of requirements?


Another question, Doug.......Have you ever had trouble with bad welds, or bandsaw blades from this source not running perfectly true?


ooc
 
Last edited:
Doug Stevens said:
Yes I would recommend it for use across the entire spectrum.

doug
Click to expand...

OK, thanks.....

Another question, Doug.......Have you ever had trouble with bad welds, or bandsaw blades from this source not running perfectly true?

ooc
 
Didn't see the second question.. :-) I've never had any issues at all with these blades.. However I do as a matter of course when mounting a new blade, dress the blade with an abrasive stone across the back of the blade and on both sides behind the teeth to remove any potential rough spots. Might not be necessary but something I was taught as a child and kept doing. :-)

doug
 
bandsaw blades

Odie, I can't answer your question, but I wondered if you knew that you can resharpen bandsaw blades. I learned the simple technique from Richard Raffan's Turning Wood. He has a short description of how he does it and a photo. He says he can get 10 sharpenings each blade. I usually get about three as I'm still working on developing a light touch. It does save some money and works. I'm pulling the book's name from memory, so someone correct me if it has another title.
 
Doug Stevens said:
Didn't see the second question.. :-) I've never had any issues at all with these blades.. However I do as a matter of course when mounting a new blade, dress the blade with an abrasive stone across the back of the blade and on both sides behind the teeth to remove any potential rough spots. Might not be necessary but something I was taught as a child and kept doing. :-)

doug
Click to expand...

Doug.....I just got through editing in the second question before you responded, so it probably wasn't there in the text you originally saw! :D

I've never heard of dressing a bandsaw blade with a stone! Don't see where it could hurt, but have you ever had problems with "rough spots"?

I've had plenty of problems, over the years, with bandsaw blades not running true.......blade oscillating in and out of the cut.

ooc
 
Greg Thomas said:
Odie, I can't answer your question, but I wondered if you knew that you can resharpen bandsaw blades. I learned the simple technique from Richard Raffan's Turning Wood. He has a short description of how he does it and a photo. He says he can get 10 sharpenings each blade. I usually get about three as I'm still working on developing a light touch. It does save some money and works. I'm pulling the book's name from memory, so someone correct me if it has another title.
Click to expand...

Hello Greg......Well, yes......I did know that. Band saw blades last me quite awhile, and I guess it just seemed like too much trouble to spend the effort, than to just replace the blade......or, I'm just feeling lazy about this! If I'm not using the correct blade to begin with, might as well not bother to sharpen these two Timberwolfs.......

Matter of fact, I have Richard Raffan's Turning Wood book right here as I type. There is no appendix and no mention of band saw in the table of contents. I've scanned through the book but not located that information just yet.........got a page number?

edit: OK, there is an index.....missed that. But, I don't see anything on the bandsaw. My copy of Raffan's book is second printing, April 1986......could sharpening band saw blades be in a later printing?????

ooc
 
Last edited:
Dressing Blades

Rough spots would indicate to me sloppy manufacture.

The best reason for dressing the back of the blade is to round over the back edges for smoother curve-cutting, maybe even tighter radius. I also like to precede each cut by briefly holding a piece of wax candle against the sides of the running blade for lubrication.
 
Joe,

Thanks for the clarification. BTW a shot of Pam will do the same thing as the wax.. quiets everything down and lubricates the cut and is vegetable based and doesn't accumulate on the blade guides.

Doug.
 
Odie, I buy 250 feet rolls of 1/4 inch, I think 4 teeth per inch and I forget the rake but its agressive, and I make my own. I use a jig I got from some outfit years ago and silver solder the blades. My blades are 152 inches so its much cheaper to make my own. True you have to clean up the solder joint. And sometimes they break right off the bat. But why I answered this thread is your description sounds like dull blades. My blades dont last forever. If I am lucky I can saw round a truck load of blanks. Except when I wack a rock right off. When you have to start pushing and the cut is not straight you need a new blade. Or try to sharpen it. By straight I mean it deflects within the blank. It may feel sharp and work like a champ on 1 inch of wood, but try a ten inch thick blank and you burn within the cut and it deflects. Maybe not so much with as thick a blade as you are using. I may be scotch irish jewish feringi but I like sharp blades. A sharp blade is sweet to use and so less dangerous to that stuff we call skin and bone. Just my 2c. Oh, and when I do break a new blade I know the guy that can make it new again.
 
Doug Stevens said:
Odie,

Maybe dressing was a bad choice of words.. really just taking off the hard edges on the back of the blade, also helps with the thunking noise cause by some welds.. Here's a link to the type of stone I use. http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/bladeroundingstone.aspx
Doug
Click to expand...

I get the idea, Doug.

I have an old silicon carbide slip stone that I might use to round off the back side corners of my band saw blade, to test it out for improvement.

Thanks

ooc
 
odie said:
About a year ago, I purchased two Timberwolf band saw blades from Woodcraft. I've been experiencing some difficulties with these blades. Although the packaging is long gone, I've determined that both these blades are "positive claw" blades. I don't know what that means, but every once in awhile I've had these blades catch on the wood and stop the band saw. I'm thinking these are straight teeth with no "set".

Would the better choice be an alternate set tooth configuration.

The blades are 3/8 and 1/2 wide, 3tpi and 4tpi respectively.

99.99 percent of my band saw use is simply to knock off the corners of bowl blanks in a circular cut. Most of the time these blades work perfectly, but when there's trouble, the catches occur and I usually have to remount the blade to the wheels several times before I can get the corners cut off a single bowl blank. I had this trouble again the other day on a piece of Goncalo Alves. Not every piece of Goncalo Alves was a problem, but this one sure was. I've used the band saw a half dozen times since the troublesome Goncalo Alves......and, it's been cutting well before and after that piece of wood.

I'd like to order an alternate set 3tpi blade, if the positive claw configuration is not the best for this application......

Input please......

ooc
Click to expand...

Odie, the folks at Suffolk Machinery can answer all your questions and recommend the correct blade. Their number is (800) 234-7297. Here is some basic information on what blade to use: http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/important-info-vertical.html

I think that perhaps the positive claw is more for resawing dry wood and for your purpose, an alternate set blade would be best. I suspect that the positive claw blade my be cutting rather aggressively in the green wood, loading up the gullets, and generating enough heat to pinch the blade in the kerf. Another possibility is that the blade is worn out or that the set is asymmetrical both of which lead to heat and binding.

Also, you may already know this, but here are six rules on band sawing: http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/six-rules-of-sawing.html

Make certain that the blades are not over-tensioned when using Timberwolf blades.
 
By the way, Suffolk Machinery also recommends lubricating smaller blades with PAM -- the same stuff that is used in the kitchen to spray baking pans. Sometimes the wife comes to the shop to borrow my can of PAM when she runs out in the kitchen. It really is great stuff for lubricating a blade.

In addition to rounding the back of a blade, I also polish the blade with metal polish before installing it. t is a very small thing, but it does make a noticeable difference. For blade guides, I often use hard oily tropical wood with zero clearance. This works well when the blade has been polished glassy smooth.
 
KellyDunn said:
Odie, I buy 250 feet rolls of 1/4 inch, I think 4 teeth per inch and I forget the rake but its agressive, and I make my own. I use a jig I got from some outfit years ago and silver solder the blades. My blades are 152 inches so its much cheaper to make my own. True you have to clean up the solder joint. And sometimes they break right off the bat. But why I answered this thread is your description sounds like dull blades. My blades dont last forever. If I am lucky I can saw round a truck load of blanks. Except when I wack a rock right off. When you have to start pushing and the cut is not straight you need a new blade. Or try to sharpen it. By straight I mean it deflects within the blank. It may feel sharp and work like a champ on 1 inch of wood, but try a ten inch thick blank and you burn within the cut and it deflects. Maybe not so much with as thick a blade as you are using. I may be scotch irish jewish feringi but I like sharp blades. A sharp blade is sweet to use and so less dangerous to that stuff we call skin and bone. Just my 2c. Oh, and when I do break a new blade I know the guy that can make it new again.
Click to expand...

Aloha Kelly........

I've been using the 1/2" blade for close to a year now......perhaps that one is not as sharp as it should be. (I am not a production turner, so the number of uses my band saw sees in the same period of time is probably much less than it is for you.) However, the 3/8" blade was taken out of the shrink wrap packaging only a couple weeks ago, even though I purchased this one at the same time as the other Timberwolf blade. It could be defective, but I suspect the "positive claw" tooth design is probably the source of the catches I've been having occasionally. The confusing part for me is the blade will run perfectly for a dozen bowl blanks, and then have multiple catches on one particular bowl block.......then, it'll run perfectly again for a number of subsequent bowl blanks........:confused:

ooc
 
Bill, I'll check out your links tomorrow......got to get up early, so signing off for the night. This thread is getting interesting......and educational for me.

Thanks to everyone who has responded thus far........:D......and looking forward to more input, if it's coming!

Greg......yep, not the same Raffan book.....no wonder I couldn't find it!

ooc
 
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A friend of mine is a production turner, and had used the Timberwolf blades for years. I was telling him about mine, Lennnox Diemaster bimetal blades. He tried one out, and now that is what he uses. I use the thicker blades because they take more abuse. I prefer half inch blades, and 3 tpi. These are made for resawing. The bi-metal means the blade is a softer metal, and the teeth are a harder metal. These can be sharpened many times, and I have it done at a local shop for a couple of bucks per blade. If you hit a nail with a bimetal blade, it will dull it down a bit but not stop it. Rocks, well, that is another matter. A 96 inch blade is just under $30, and my 150 inch by 1 1/4 inch blades are about $70. Worth every penny. I have never rounded over the backs of my blades. The thrust bearing seems to do that just fine. I asked my bandsaw guru about that and he said to NEVER do it. A 1/2 inch blade will cut a 3 inch radius fairly easily. Any bump on the back of a blade is a sigh of poor workmanship. I guess there are several brands of bimetal blades out there. I have heard of Ellis blades on another forum. If you live in a town of any size, and there is a saw shop, chances are they can make blades for you.

robo hippy
 
Odie. Your main problem is probably being to aggressive with a dull blade. If you do mainly dry wood, blades take a beating. A quick touch on the back of a blade will take out any imperfection at the weld. If you hear a blade ticking it is going to soon break.
Do you ever tune up the saw? Adjust the guides & bearings. Set the tension correct.
Too aggressive a blade can be a problem just like on a radial arm saw but slowing down usually solves that problem. Cheers. Ron.
 
Couple thoughts. WD40 and a paper towel. Turn off the saw, rotate the blade backward through a dampened area if you oil the blade before use. Always do it after use. Wet wood makes corrosion, corrosion dulls a blade. While you're at it, wipe down the iron, too. Especially after nasty, acid woods like oak. Water Displacement, right? Doesn't get oil where it's not needed, and cheaper than aerosol.

Set in the teeth is a good thing when cutting wet wood. Wood heats and swells, and can grab in the kerf on its own, or with tilt help if you're trying to hand-hold on a less-than-flat surface.

I won't accept a bad weld. If it's mail order, RMA. A misaligned weld is a sign of carelessness that can also mean an incomplete one. I don't like blades to break.
 
MichaelMouse said:
I won't accept a bad weld. If it's mail order, RMA. A misaligned weld is a sign of carelessness that can also mean an incomplete one. I don't like blades to break.
Click to expand...

MM......

Bad welds.......you would be surprised how many blades I've had over the years that wobbled because of a misaligned blade while it was being welded. It's such a simple thing to get right.......I guess some people just don't care about the quality they produce.....

......Ho, ho......it's off to work I go!.......:D

ooc
 
Odie My blades come from a local supplier who builds them for me for $6 each. They are 1/2" 3TPI and I guess I'll call them alternate set since every other tooth is set opposite. I have had great luck with these and when they get dull I just toss them for that price. They do occasionally have a weld that ticks but that's never stopped them from working just fine. I tried rounding the back of the blades. I can't tell it makes any difference. Maybe it has to do with the set of the teeth. A fairly large kerf may negate any affect dressing the rear of the blade has.
 
Does the size of band saw have anything to do with how long the blade will last. I am looking to purchase a new band saw and was recently told that a 14" saw will go through blades faster than say a 21" saw - assuming all is equal in what is being sawed. The argument was the tighter radius around the upper and lower wheels put more tension on the blades thus more wear quickly. Also smaller band saws typically run on a slower FRPM (foot rotation per minute) than larger saws (2 speed 1700 to 3600 on small saws) and (4600 on larger saws). Any thoughts or comments on this information that was given to me.

Thanks,

Dale
 
Odie, I'm not going to recommend a particular brand of blade, but a alternate tooth raker design would be better for your cutting habits. This design is not quite as aggressive as the positive hook or claw type but usually will result in a cleaner cut. The reason you are having the blade catch in the blank is most likely a dull blade.
What happens is this, the point of the tooth enters the wood and tries to pull itself through the blank, but if the gullet of the tooth is dull it can't take that big of a bite and either stalls the machine or throws the blade. This is common with low tooth count blades as they become dull and the problem becomes compounded especially on underpowered machines.
You might want to stay away from 3 tpi blades and slow the feed rate, don't let the blade pull the wood into it.
 
Bandsaw blade sharpening

Odie There are some threads on this subject ,look them up. Rob Wallace has a method I have used for about two years now and can get two sharpenings per blade. You probably know this but on cutting wet wood in particular make sure the piece you are cutting has no movement when passing through the blade. Either have it on a piece on plywood or a flat surface on the wood to eliminate movement.

I got a piece of exotic wood from a woodcraft store this summer. Unnamed it is the hardest wood I have ever encountered. Couldn't do a straight cut without burning.
 
Odie,
I use an online company www.carbide.com you can order by specifications. I have a 16" bandsaw and the local stores don't carry that size. They use Lenox blades in carbon steel, bi-metal and carbide tipped. I use the carbon steel, the price is good they are easy to sharpen, although when I mess one up or it gets dull, they usually get cut up and forged into carving blades. I don't know what size saw you have but a 3/8 by 93 1/4 inch blade (14" band saw) with lenox set or alternate set is $12.84 plus shipping. I've been very happy with them.
 
dbonertz said:
Does the size of band saw have anything to do with how long the blade will last. I am looking to purchase a new band saw and was recently told that a 14" saw will go through blades faster than say a 21" saw - assuming all is equal in what is being sawed. The argument was the tighter radius around the upper and lower wheels put more tension on the blades thus more wear quickly. Also smaller band saws typically run on a slower FRPM (foot rotation per minute) than larger saws (2 speed 1700 to 3600 on small saws) and (4600 on larger saws). Any thoughts or comments on this information that was given to me.

Thanks,

Dale
Click to expand...

Dale, if the blade wears out from being dulled then they last approximately the same length of time whether on a large or small saw. However, the blade can also fail from fatigue caused by alternately wrapping around the wheel radius and going back straight several times per second. And, no, a smaller size wheel does not cause higher blade tension. Generally speaking larger bandsaws are set up to have slightly higher tension because of increased likelihood of flutter due to the longer distance from wheel to guide. The other thing that is the main cause of higher dynamic tension in larger bandsaws is the speed of the blade. Large saws generally run at about 3500 to 4000 FPM while smaller 14 inch saws run at about 2400 to 2700 FPM. Bench top bandsaws run even slower. Avoid getting a three wheeler as they are likely to cause a blade to break from work hardening fatigue well before the teeth get dull.

Also, after about five years it would not hurt to check the tires occasionally. A rubber tire reacts with ozone a becomes hard and brittle. Under bright light you can see small hairline cracks that run from side to side and the tire may also appear glazed. A worn out will slightly flatten the set of the teeth on one side of the blade. I don't know what sort of useful life the urethane tires have.
 
In the battle between carbon steel and bimetal, it is like the battle between standard matrix grinding wheels and CBN grinding wheels. A bit more spendy, but a way better value considering change out time and how long they cut. Carbide blades are for cutting veneers, and not really for resawing. Almost no set to the teeth. I know, I tried one out.

robo hippy
 
Bill Boehme said:
Odie, the folks at Suffolk Machinery can answer all your questions and recommend the correct blade. Their number is (800) 234-7297. Here is some basic information on what blade to use: http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/important-info-vertical.html

I think that perhaps the positive claw is more for resawing dry wood and for your purpose, an alternate set blade would be best. I suspect that the positive claw blade my be cutting rather aggressively in the green wood, loading up the gullets, and generating enough heat to pinch the blade in the kerf. Another possibility is that the blade is worn out or that the set is asymmetrical both of which lead to heat and binding.

Also, you may already know this, but here are six rules on band sawing: http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/six-rules-of-sawing.html

Make certain that the blades are not over-tensioned when using Timberwolf blades.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this information, Bill......

I believe you are correct that what I need is an alternate set blade, and the trouble I've been experiencing is using a blade designed primarily for KD wood (positive claw), when much of the wood I cut on the bandsaw has a higher MC.

I'm thinking the alternate set won't be as aggressive as the positive claw when sawing KD wood, but shouldn't have any problems cutting it at a little slower feed rate......therefore, it should be a good blade to cover all the bases!

I believe I'll order a couple carbon steel 111", 3/8 wide, 3tpi, alternate set blades from the outfit Docworks suggested......carbide.com. At $14.28 each, I'm not going to bother with resharpening them. We'll see, but if one of these blades lasts me 6mo, I'll be satisfied. (I don't throw old bandsaw blades away, so the option of resharpening some of these is available to me somewhere down the road at a later time.......)

I also looked over the rules for blade tensioning......that will help me to get the tension correct.....thanks.

Note to Robo Hippy: I might have gone for the bi-metal, but it wasn't available in the configuration I'm interested in. The bi-metal appears to be about double the cost of the carbon steel.......not sure how that would have effected the purchase, but it would have been part of the equation.

ooc
 
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Odie. An alternate set will turn corners better as well! For those interested I use a 7/32" cylindrical stone meant for sharpening chain saw blades, in my Dremel to sharpen BS blades. There are probably 5/32" available as well.
A hook tooth will probably cut KD lumber much better than string wet stuff.
 
The strike-through is when I put a blade on. The new date is when I put on a new blade. Several hundred green bowl blanks (guessing about 400): walnut, cherry, hackberry, maple, beech, Bradford Pear, sycamore, oak, etc. Plus resawing green and KD. Plus countless box blanks. Plus beaucoup shaker blanks and pepper mill blanks. Hundreds of maple angel blanks. Hundreds of maple light bulb blanks. Even some aluminum. Maybe 200 KD blanks for spin tops. A hundred or so crosses that we sell at the store. A hundred or so cedar vases. I'm sure I'm leaving something out.

I've been really hard on it this time. It still cut fairly well, but I was having to push a bit to feed, and I value my fingers more than the blade.

You will be hard pressed convincing me to buy anything other than the Lenox bimetal.

Rich
 

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john lucas said:
.... I tried rounding the back of the blades. I can't tell it makes any difference....
Click to expand...

John, the purpose of rounding the back of the blade is primarily for making tight turns where the back of the blade is riding on one side of the kerf. Typical bandsaw blades have a fairly sharp corner at the back and it can hang on the wood and have a tendency to pull the teeth away from the cut. When the back of the blade is rounded and polished this tendency is reduced considerably. You can tell if this is happening by examining the kerf on tight radius cuts. If you see vertical ridges with light burn marks, that is most likely from the back edge of the blade cutting a tiny groove and hanging.
 
Bill's close with the smaller wheel controversy. The phenomenon is known as "work hardening," and is like cold-working metal with rollers or hammering. It make them harder, which, as usual, makes them more brittle. Cracks develop at the bottom of the gullets where the stress from the tooth hitting work meets the main blade. They can spread to failure.

Don't believe tension is a player except that it might complete the work stress started when increased.
 
Well this is extremely unscientific but I started with a 3 wheel Delta bandsaw. It sucked by the way but it wasn't because of blade breakage. I bought it for resawing and general bandsaw work and then eventually tried to use it for green bowl cutting. The blade wandered everywhere. I don't ever remember breaking a blade. I bent a few and ruined them that way.
I stepped up to a 14" saw. Off brand at first and then a Delta that I own now. I do break a blade occasionally but they are cheap blades welded up buy my local saw sharpening guy. I don't think I break any more than my closest friend who has a 20" bandsaw. He buys his blades from my same guy. We've discussed blade breakage which is really pretty infrequent for both of us and he turns at least as much as I do. We both use our saws for Resawing and other chores as well.
For recreational use such as most of us put our saws through I'm not sure the wheel radius is a factor in blade breakage but like I said this is just an opinion based on owning and working with other saws.
 
Odie,
Like Richard said, you really get so much more with the bimetal blades.

The main problem I have had with blade breakage is from not lowering the upper blade guide down to the work level, and maybe from feeding faster than I should. I have lost several blades to cracks forming on the back of the blade. Think of pushing on a stick. It will bow away from the pressure. This puts stress on the back of the blade. Usually if there is one crack, there are many. Time to scrap it. If you are running your blade, and it is moving front to back, this is why.

Oh, yea, the dull tool saga: when it gets dull, sharpen or throw it away. I have a couple of knuckle scars from making 'one last cut'. Learned that one by peeing on the electric fence. Never again. Lucky it was only a flesh wound.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
.... Lucky it was only a flesh wound.
Click to expand...

Sounds like what Lil Abner's Fearless Fosdick used to say.

There is a downside to having a bandsaw with a really big motor. I have a 16" Minimax with a 3.5 HP motor and had just installed a new 1" blade to cut some mesquite into turning blanks. As I recall, I was a bit careless and put a large piece on the table that was slightly rounded on the down facing side. Of course, it rolled and since the block was about a foot thick, the blade stuck and the next thing that I remember was something that sounded like a rifle shot as that new one-inch blade snapped. After a trip to change clothes, I examined the blade and saw that there was no point in re-welding it because it had likely exceeded the elastic limit in tension and was necked down slightly near the break. The break was not at the weld.

John, small thin blades are fine on a three wheel bandsaw. It is the wider and thicker blades that are likely to fail.
 
Bill Yes, and the wider thicker blades could not be tensioned enough to cut any straighter than the narrow blades. I did all my resawing and bowls with a 1/4" blade because the larger blades bowed worse. That saw was a dog for what I wanted to use it for. It was pretty good for just sawing curves in flat work and with the 16" it was pretty handy. Of course it only had about 5" depth of cut.
 
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