Bandsaw Blades (again!) Confusion regarding Woodturners blade?

[Raja Abusharr]

First, I'm a novice turner (began in August 2023) andi purchased a Laguna 14BX bandsaw.

I blasted through several blades, first the Woodturners 115" 0.032 from Highland, then a Carter green wood, then another Woodturners, then a Timberwolf 1/2" and now back to Woodturners from Highland. I am assuming user error due to wood catching and grabbing on a 3 TPI aggressive blade. They twisted and I wasnt about to mess with them.

I read practically all info on this site and read over a quoted Odie tutorial and talked to and viewed lots of Alex Snodgrass (https://bandsawlife.com/) YouTubes along with long emails with Laguna technician. In this forum I noted a lot of good comments on the bimetal Lenox blades. Carbide tipped blades are overkill for me I believe.

I purchased sleds from Carter along with their guides (I ruined the ceramic guides that Laguna uses) and I think I learned what I did wrong with the ruined blades. I am better now and have figured out guide adjustment, proper tensioning, feed rate, and stabilizing the wood for crosscuts and resawing. I am also debarking the wood to avoid dulling the blades. I still struggle with rotating a blank to create a round blank despite all the above and making a jig to allow for stable rotation of the blank.

So that is all background and the real reason I am posting and inviting responses from seasoned (excuse the pun) turners and woodworkers is what appears to be a major discrpeancy between the Highland Woodworking site's info about the Woodturners Bandsaw Blade and what the manufacturer states.

The blades I have purchased upon recommendations are the Highland Woodturners 3/8 blade. I decided to find out where they are made and went to the manuf. site https://www.diamondsaw.com/pages/products/bandSawBlades/specialty/X-TraDuty.aspx. I know that is the maker since all blades came with stapled tag (included in this post)

The manufacturer has this to say about these blades (i put the link above) "... Not recommended for machines that take a band less than 15’ in length." My bandsaw is for a 115" blade (9'7") clearly far beneath the 15' (180") recommended.

When I emailed Highland about this (wondering if this could be the reason my blades are not performing as well as others are saying) they told me I was looking at the wrong blade... "That’s for the WoodSlicer. A different manufacturer and only for 3/4” blades. Your bandsaw is ideal for 3/8”, 1/2”, and smaller blades. "

So the support team at Highlands either did not read the email I sent or bother to look at the details from the manufacturer.

I'm just trying to determine if part of my problem is that I am using a blade UNSUITABLE for the Laguan 14BX based on what the manufacturer clearly states.

Sorry for the long winded post.

 

[Kevin Jesequel]

The manufacturer’s recommendation is likely due to the band thickness, not its width. I have read that 14” wheels are too tight of a radius for .032 thick bands and can cause stress cracks on the back of the band. That said, I have been running Timberwolf 3/8” 3AS bands, which are .032, on my 14” Harvey without any problems. I did have 2 of the Highland bands break at the welds when I tried them when the saw was new. Not sure if it was due to the welds, the wheel diameter, or something else. I never reached out to Highland to complain or ask for replacement (which I am sure they would have done).

 

[Dave Landers]

I used these blades for many years on my 14" delta w/riser - 105" blades. Using them now on my 20" saw (140").
No problems that weren't mine.

 

[rkriet]

I too have been using those blades without problems on a Delta w/riser (105” blades).

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I went through this learning process about 18 months ago. Bandsaws are fairly safe, but if you try to cut something that isn't firmly planted to the table. Example, trying to cut a 5" log in two. That log is going to roll. When it rolls, it's going to bind, twist the blade, and jam the bandsaw. At that point you might end up with the blade permanently imbedded in the log. I learned this early on. You mentioned sleds, so maybe this isn't an issue for you. When I start making a cut that make me nervous, I stop and rethink my approach (attach it to a sled or whatever). That thing that makes you nervous is going to happen. If you don't stop making those dumb cuts, you're going to get hurt. I'm talking to myself here.

To each his own regarding carbide tipped blades. When I started woodworking, I thought I was going to be doing flat work. I ripped a bunch of maple, dogwood, mulberry, and other hard woods. I went through regular bandsaw blades very quickly. I was not interested (at that time) in sharpening blades. I bought a carbide blade for $120. A Timberwolf blade is about $45 if I recall. I've been using the carbide blade for months now and it's still going strong. Well worth the money, IMO.

Here's the blade I bought if you are interested: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08RD9GZLT

 

[Kent Jaffrey]

I used several of their blades and did find that the band would break earlier than I would have expected and chalked it up to the thicker band as you state. (I do have a 20” saw and did not have this problem with he larger wheels). I switched to a similar tooth set blade with a thinner band thickness and have not had that problem since switching. So I think there is something to all the manufacturers recommending a thinner band for a 14” saw.

 

[john lucas]

I went through the jammed blade scenario many times while learning. And still do occasionally. I buy my blades from my local saw sharpening service. I get 152" 3 tpi 1/2" blades for $12. These blades cut great for woid turning blanks. If the cut isn't critical I use them for resawing. I also gave 1/4" and 3/8" from him. I will do an occasionally do a bandsaw box and they work fine. I tried one of the Highland hardware blades. I got a catch and ruined it after about 3 weeks. Haven't bought an expensive blade since. My saw guy is going to retire so I'm going to buy a roll of the blades I use and cut and silver solder my own

 

[Raja Abusharr]

I went through this learning process about 18 months ago. Bandsaws are fairly safe, but if you try to cut something that isn't firmly planted to the table. Example, trying to cut a 5" log in two. That log is going to roll. When it rolls, it's going to bind, twist the blade, and jam the bandsaw. At that point you might end up with the blade permanently imbedded in the log. I learned this early on. You mentioned sleds, so maybe this isn't an issue for you. When I start making a cut that make me nervous, I stop and rethink my approach (attach it to a sled or whatever). That thing that makes you nervous is going to happen. If you don't stop making those dumb cuts, you're going to get hurt. I'm talking to myself here.

To each his own regarding carbide tipped blades. When I started woodworking, I thought I was going to be doing flat work. I ripped a bunch of maple, dogwood, mulberry, and other hard woods. I went through regular bandsaw blades very quickly. I was not interested (at that time) in sharpening blades. I bought a carbide blade for $120. A Timberwolf blade is about $45 if I recall. I've been using the carbide blade for months now and it's still going strong. Well worth the money, IMO.

Here's the blade I bought if you are interested: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08RD9GZLT

I went through the jammed blade scenario many times while learning. And still do occasionally. I buy my blades from my local saw sharpening service. I get 152" 3 tpi 1/2" blades for $12. These blades cut great for woid turning blanks. If the cut isn't critical I use them for resawing. I also gave 1/4" and 3/8" from him. I will do an occasionally do a bandsaw box and they work fine. I tried one of the Highland hardware blades. I got a catch and ruined it after about 3 weeks. Haven't bought an expensive blade since. My saw guy is going to retire so I'm going to buy a roll of the blades I use and cut and silver solder my own

I'm wondering about making my own blades and have watched the dremel-solder-dremel process and it looks fine. Worse case scenario the blade breaks at the seam and no one is hurt except my ego. I think thats a good idea so I will ask about sharpening services near me. I'm in the Houston area btw. Thanks JL

 

[hockenbery]

I'm just trying to determine if part of my problem is that I am using a blade

I don’t think the blade is the cutting problem. If it’s tracking properly it should cut.

You seemed to have worked through proper tensioning and bearing settings. I double check the back bearings frequently - constant pressures from thick blanks will move the back if they are left a tiny way from tight.

So cutting technique - any time I get off in tracking on the circle I cut straight out of the blank. I can then start a new cut to get back on my circle track. Also if I have a lot of twisty grain and the tension on the wood is closing to pinch the blade I cut straight out.

A common trouble spot is following the curve around the endgrain. The blade will often want to turn the cut outward a bit as it transition from the cross cut to rip cut. The endgrain is harder…. Again i cut straight out and start a new cut to pick up the Track

Band saws cut really nicely in the cross cut, and the rip cut. Almost as well on the transition from rip cut to cross cut.
Not so good on the transition from cross cut to rip cut - Dull blades and cutting too fast exacerbate the problem.
Gee that sounds a lot like where turning tools cut well and poorly!

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I'm wondering about making my own blades and have watched the dremel-solder-dremel process and it looks fine.

Why? I know we aren't all made of money, but for $120 I definitely couldn't be bothered to do all that.

 

[Richard Coers]

If you "blow" through a lot of blades, the problem is you. You only have 6 months of experience on something you have never used before? Why would expect to be perfect at it. All machines require a skill set. The manufacturer's concern is people over tensioning blades. I've made all my own blades for decades. Main reason, a guy gave me about 1,000' of blade coils. It's simple and cheap to make your own blades, but that too requires skills. If a blade breaks at speed in the machine, it is rare that a simple solder joint will fix it. The blades kink and twist from the energy. Unless you know how to hammer out blades, they get tossed. I haven't owned a carbide blade in 50 years of bandsaw work. I prefer to go cheap and put them in the recycling when they get dull. I precision grind a skive joint on a disc sander, I have no idea what exactly a Dremel-solder-Dremel process is, but without a nice clamping jig, making a good bandsaw blade will be pretty difficult.

 

[robo hippy]

A blade binding in the cut can happen for a number of reasons. Primary one is that your slab you are starting with is not flat, so it will rock during the cut, and this puts a really good pinch on the blade. One primary reason for broken blades is the thrust bearing on the back side of the blade being too far away from the blade. It should be just touching the back of the blade. If it is too far away, the back of the blade bends away from the cut and cracks start to appear on the back side of the blade. When my 1 1/4 inch wide blades break, it is good for an adrenaline rush..... When rounding out bowl blanks, I prefer to start with a rectangle or square. This gives me corners that are far away from the blade and keeps my fingers away from the blade. If I cut it into an octagon, then my fingers are a lot closer to the cutting edge, and that makes me uncomfortable. As far as blades go, I round out blanks with a 1/2 inch blade, and a thicker one so it can take a bit more abuse before it fails. 3 tpi, and the Lennox diemaster bimetal blade. The teeth, I think are M42 high speed steel. They cut straighter and longer than any other blade out there. Yes, they cost a bit more, but they are worth it.

Carbide blades are for cutting veneers. I do know Woodmizer makes carbide blades for resawing lumber, but I don't know if they make them for shop owners.

I have run into binding problems when trying to rip kiln dried wood on my bandsaw. Those boards seem to always have pressure on the inside and will cup and warp, and bind when you rip them down. Some times they pinch.

robo hippy

 

[Aaron Harris]

Thanks for all the great tips and cautions above! I too have had to learn/am still learning the hard way sometimes on my 14" Rikon. I don't know why I thought that band-sawing would be a fairly easy, low-skill cutting action, but as someone pointed out above, it is not. In a sense it is like turning, in that making a controlled, supported, predictable cut is the key. I need to watch some of the Snodgrass videos-the learning never stops!

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Aaron, I have that same bandsaw. It's been great so far.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Bandsawing can be easy (but still skilled), but things take a bit of practice and thinking ahead before the wood gets turned into dust, even during the cut.

I don't know if it was mentioned, but every time I adjust the height of the upper guide, I check and adjust the upper blade side guides and rear bearing. On many saws, the upper guide assembly is not dead-on parallel to the blade, so take a second and make sure the side guides are set immediately behind the tooth gullet and that there is no more than the thickness of a sheet of paper to the rear bearing (and maybe 2 sheets worth, tops, to the side guides, to allow for heat expansion). And I keep the space above the wood to the guide to 1/4" - 1/2", max. Don't overwork the saw, let the blade do the work naturally. And adhere to the rules of capable radius for the width of the blade. Pay attention, keep the wood in full contact with the bed, and plan blade escape points (don't try to cut full circles of unbroken waste, make relief cuts at the 90-degree locations, and more often if pushing the radius limit of the blade). Pretty soon bandsawing won't be a nail-biting experience and will become an easy task before turning.

 

[Dave Landers]

Here's some of my thoughts on bandsawing for woodturners

Bandsaws are great for cutting curvy things from flat boards, or resawing. Like we do with many tools, we woodturners sorta abuse them for our own purposes.

Supported cut - if there's an air gap between the bottom of the wood and the saw table, the blade is going to slam that wood down onto the table and Bad Things™ happen. Same if the wood doesn't sit flat (rocks or teeters).
Since we often are first cutting up a log with a chainsaw, it turns out our chainsaw skills can be important for successful bandsawing.
Jigs and sleds and such do help, but nothing beats flat on the table.

Wet wood moves (dry wood too, but less so) - Really annoying (and sometimes frightening) when the kerf closes up and traps your blade. I've had to cut a blade to get the wood off the saw, it bound so tight. Keep an eye on the kerf and make an exit cut if it's starting to close up. Wedges can sometimes help, but can't always resist the power of wood movement - especially in a larger blank.

Circles are hard - Like @hockenbery mentioned, the saw likes to wander at some places around the cut.

Dirt dulls blades. Bark is dirty. Dull blades drift - This makes circles even harder. Things like circle-cutting jigs work when the blade cuts straight, not so well if the blade is drifting.

Wet logs are heavy - Make sure your bandsaw table is big enough to support the blank. If you're struggling to hold the blank on the table, cutting is that much harder (and risky). I made an extension table for my 14" saw that made the world of difference.

I prefer cutting my blanks freehand because I can compensate for blade drift, and exit the cut if things just aren't going my way.

And finally:
Lathes excel at "round" - The bandsaw is great for helping to true up a blank before going to the lathe - especially helpful if the blank is unbalanced and pushing the capacity of the lathe. But to get something round, nothing beats a lathe.
So yeah, true up that blank. But if round is causing issues, just make a series of straight cuts - 6, 8, 10 cuts, whatever, around the blank. Get rid of the most egregious excess and balance it as best you can. But you're going to let the lathe do "round" anyway....

 

[Raja Abusharr]

THANK YOU to all who responded with thoughtful and experience based comments. Many of your suggestions are considered and appreciated. Clearly the diversity of the turning community is reflected in the individuality of each response. I am grateful for the combined knowledge and generosity.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Before believing the vendor (Highland) I would have gone to diamondsaw tech support and ask them the WHY (The technical/engineering reason) why the bands are not recommended for blades less than 15 Ft - Perhaps THEIR website has an error? (in which case maybe they would want to correct it?) Or, at the very least an understanding of why it is the case (Is .032" too thick to make it around the radius of the smaller sized bandsaws? Why? Does the blade metal experience fatigue or cracking, etc - like air craft can experience metal fatigue or some such?) Once an understanding of the technical/engineering reasoning behind it then perhaps armed with that info it could be pointed out to the vendor - Because if the blade is subject to issues when trying to be run on a tighter radius, the Vendor (Highland) would be held liable in a product liability case because they went against manufacturer/engineering recommendations.

As a Vendor (if I was one) I would take such information very seriously.. because my lawyers and insurance underwriters sure would! However if the error was a simple typo on the manufacturer's part in their website information, then apologies would be owed to Highland (and they , as the vendor, might want to add a note to point this fact out until the manufacturer fixes the website?)

As an end user, if a bandsaw blade failure were to cause damage to the machine (or the user) that could be shown to be caused directly by the fact that the blade was not suitable for the machine (Due to the manufacturer's specification) then I would be expecting the vendor that made or sold the blade to me as being suitable for my machine to make things right, including covering damages, cost of repairs, hospital bills, down time, and the like... So I'd be very leery of doing business with a company that recommends something that goes against the manufacturer's own specifications.

In any case, IMHO, Highland's kneejerk response to the situation (banning you as a customer) seems awfully unprofessional to me. I have no experience with either company involved, but just based on their passing the buck (from your first post) I'd have hesitated to buy from Highland.

In my past experiences (Automotive, Heavy Truck, Machinery, Small engine service, as well as I.T.) I was always asking "WHY?" - Many things I was taught by old hands or experienced mechanics, I eventually found (By questioning why and finding out by the science of it) were just not right - or they might have been applicable for some situations (such as it might have been true for older technology but as technology or metallurgy , whatever improved, those "truths" became false) So, I'd have started out by first finding out from the manufacturer the "WHY" of it - and if they could not answer definitively (Do they have scientific testing to back up what they are saying, or are they just saying "Because!" ?) I'd have reason to suspect the manufacturer's info (or whoever was answering the question) and go find out from independent sources (Metallurgy science - what happens to the given type of metal at x Thickness when subject to the flexing at x feet per minute around x radius, and is there a better metal that might suit the requirements at a given thickness? ) All things to think about and I have been known to go down these rabbit holes before (and still do from time to time when I want to FIND OUT - It's just my natural curiosity - about all kinds of things - I've done deep dives into microbiology - during the Covid epidemic , finding out how the RNA/DNA thing actually worked - yes reading those white papers can be supremely boring brain exercise! -- All sorts of things when I really want to find out something, I tend to be fairly good at research.. )

 

[Raja Abusharr]

Absolutely correct! I am a scientist by training, a physician who bases decisions about peoples health on reproducible, verifiable and factual data given that there are no absolutes when it comes to people. Fads, trends, tik-tok, and yes Youtube and google are no substitute to an experienced scientists judgement and training. As you well state, a typo on either end can be the issue. I considered the typo and also wrote to Diamond Saw asking them for clarfication knowing that there could be a typo. They have not replied. What turned this into a questioning of Highland is when the tech first response to was dismissive mentioning the Wood mizer blades (totally irrelevant to both my saw and my purchase history) I wanted to reach out to others on the forum who have spoken so highly of Highland and ask for feedback. That initial response is what prompted a second email with me highlighting the web info on both sites, not pointing fingers just asking for clarification. To say that a person has no experience is like the teacher telling an elementary school child "dont ask questions that you cannot understand." Its actually a major insult. I dont need to know the material science of metals their tolerances to stress etc to be a competent bandsaw operator. Plenty of comments have already helped me understand technique and I am a fast learner of tools, after all, surgical technique is not unfamiliar to me. I just wanted a simple explanation to help me decide the variables in my challenge. Appreciate your insight!

 

[Dave Landers]

wow. I've added a link to this post in my notes about bandsaw blades to help with my next purchase decision.

 

[Jerry Bennett]

I buy my blades directly from suffolk machinery the manufacturer of timberwolf blades. The head guy knows his beans about blades. Buying direct has its advantages, he is one. My experience is few vendors know squat about the products they sell.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

There's a little trick when I'm sawing odd shaped pieces that can't easily be flattened to rest evenly on the table. Instead of using the regular table insert I made a plastic one that's domed above the table surface 3/4" so the workpiece rests on it and part of the table. It pretty much eliminates pinching of the blade.

As to blades I use bimetal blades made locally. Every seller I've purchased from guarantees their welds for the life of the blade (meaning until it's dull).

I agree with Jerry above, very few vendors know squat about what they're selling.

 

[Dean Center]

While we're tapping the considerable experience of the group, I have a couple bandsaw questions and hope the OP won't mind me tacking them on.

1. When we cut out round blanks, do we reduce the kerf of the blade? Would that explain why the blade eventually doesn't cut as well as originally?
2. How do you tell when a bandsaw blade is dull? I can tell when a gouge or chisel in use is dull, but I don't get the same level of feel back from a saw blade.

 

[Clifton C]

Dean, to answer #2, for me, when the blade starts to wander it is time to sharpen or change. The "wander" starts before I have to "push harder".

 

[robo hippy]

How do you tell if your blade is dull? Well, if you are setting off the smoke alarm, that is a good indicator.... Borrowed from a writer from American Woodworking years ago. For sure the blades will start to wander much more, and you have to push harder, which does make that more dangerous. I have 2 stitches in each of 2 fingers from doing that and that warning voice was going off in my head when I did it....

One major complaint I have about bandsaw tables is that they are way smaller than what we need for most of the cutting we do. For sure a bigger wider table on the outfeed side really helps, and one on the infeed side helps as well. Kind of hard to get one on the front side since that is where we need to stand in order to guide the wood. I will build some eventually, and put laminate on them so the wood slides better.

robo hippy

 

[Raja Abusharr]

While we're tapping the considerable experience of the group, I have a couple bandsaw questions and hope the OP won't mind me tacking them on.

1. When we cut out round blanks, do we reduce the kerf of the blade? Would that explain why the blade eventually doesn't cut as well as originally?
2. How do you tell when a bandsaw blade is dull? I can tell when a gouge or chisel in use is dull, but I don't get the same level of feel back from a saw blade.

Your question is exactly what I also have hope to answer as skill builds

How do you tell if your blade is dull? Well, if you are setting off the smoke alarm, that is a good indicator.... Borrowed from a writer from American Woodworking years ago. For sure the blades will start to wander much more, and you have to push harder, which does make that more dangerous. I have 2 stitches in each of 2 fingers from doing that and that warning voice was going off in my head when I did it....

One major complaint I have about bandsaw tables is that they are way smaller than what we need for most of the cutting we do. For sure a bigger wider table on the outfeed side really helps, and one on the infeed side helps as well. Kind of hard to get one on the front side since that is where we need to stand in order to guide the wood. I will build some eventually, and put laminate on them so the wood slides better.

robo hippy

As always good info from a fellow Eugenean

 

[Dave Landers]

One major complaint I have about bandsaw tables is that they are way smaller than what we need for most of the cutting we do. For sure a bigger wider table on the outfeed side really helps, and one on the infeed side helps as well. Kind of hard to get one on the front side since that is where we need to stand in order to guide the wood. I will build some eventually, and put laminate on them so the wood slides better.

This is what I did for my old 14" Delta with its tiny table. Plywood with 2 arms that attach to the holes for the rip fence. Plus a leg down to the stand. Table on the side works out well - the bulk of a blank I'm cutting is there.
Have to remove it to change the blade, but it's not that hard to do

 

[Richard Coers]

If cutting a circle is tough for you or the blade is the wrong size for the diameter, make the blank an octagon or even more sides. It turns just as well as a blank that is kinda round, and WAY EASIER than cutting a circle.

 

[Raja Abusharr]

That's what I end up doing, thanks

 

[Larry Mercier]

I will build some eventually, and put laminate on them so the wood slides better.

robo hippy

I eagerly await your bandsaw table improvement. I have already made a sanding hood inspired by yours. It has improved dust collection.

 

[Michael Beswick]

In the UK Axminster produce blades with additional small teeth on the back edge of the blade for cutting circles. Is there not an equivalent in the US?

 

[Bill Boehme]

Rant deleted and thread closed.