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Banjo aggravation
- Thread starter Andrew Hale
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Yep- Many banjos can be interchanged , possibly with modifications if need be, or correctly sized ones from Oneway (all they need I think is spacing between bed rails? - check the Oneway link in GR's post above) - I replaced my flimsy Harbor Freight lathe banjo with a used one from Laguna that someone on these forums sold me I took a chance at it since it had 1 inch post (the HF posts are 25mm) and I'd just bought someone else's 1 inch post oneway tool rests. To make the Laguna fit I had to fabricate / jury-rig a bed rail spacer clamp (basically a really thick washer filed to just fit between bedways and then another bigger fender washer to clamp down to bedways) and it works so much better than the HF banjo , and the laguna has a "pinch clamp" type lock so it doesn't deform or damage tool rest posts . Seeing your Jet Banjo, now I'm wondering if that is the typical one I'd find on a new JWL-1842.. if so, I may re-think the 1842 as my target for a new lathe...
I have used that model, to me the main grip was the tool rest itself. As I recall, the casting on the tool rest keeps it from being lowered enough for certain cuts.
I know the Oneway and Robust Banjo clamping system is better than the screw clamp style but on my 3520 I opted to upgrade the tool rest, as opposed to the banjo.
When I was looking, it would have been around 4 or 500 bucks... As I would have to buy new tool rests to go with the new banjo.
My solution was to grind the screw clamps flat across, use two if I felt the need and buy some Robust tool rests.
The pic shows some tool posts, no divots but shiny burnished areas and the ends of the flattened screws on the clamping handles. (might not look flat, but they are)
You cannot go wrong with a Robust, or Oneway banjo if they fit. Upgrading the tool rest is just another option...
I know the Oneway and Robust Banjo clamping system is better than the screw clamp style but on my 3520 I opted to upgrade the tool rest, as opposed to the banjo.
When I was looking, it would have been around 4 or 500 bucks... As I would have to buy new tool rests to go with the new banjo.
My solution was to grind the screw clamps flat across, use two if I felt the need and buy some Robust tool rests.
The pic shows some tool posts, no divots but shiny burnished areas and the ends of the flattened screws on the clamping handles. (might not look flat, but they are)
You cannot go wrong with a Robust, or Oneway banjo if they fit. Upgrading the tool rest is just another option...
I have a Powermatic 3520B. I called Oneway and ordered a new banjo. The Oneway Banjo is much better and I should have done it sooner. The other upgrade I did was get a swing away tail stock from PM. I love that also.
I must be the luckiest woodturner ever as all nine of my lathes use the screw clamp style system and I have had no problem with marking the tool post or anything else with any of them including my Powermatic and my 16" Jet. Except for the newest which is about 2 years old they are 14 to 23 years old and have at least been used for hands on by others 2 or 3 times a year without problems and all with their original tool rests for the most part. Again I sure am lucky 
Hi Bill.......I'd love to see photos of your shop's 9 lathes in this thread:I must be the luckiest woodturner ever as all nine of my lathes use the screw clamp style system and I have had no problem with marking the tool post or anything else with any of them including my Powermatic and my 16" Jet. Except for the newest which is about 2 years old they are 14 to 23 years old and have at least been used for hands on by others 2 or 3 times a year without problems and all with their original tool rests for the most part. Again I sure am lucky
Photo of your workstation
How about a photo of your main turning workstation? It's nice to see what folks came up with for storage, accessibility.
I sure wish I had the room for another lathe, but all I have is aisle ways, with no room to spare!
-----odie-----
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I believe ONEWAY has the best banjo. Definitely the best I have used.
The locking handle is at the end end not on the side so it is out of the way and can be adjusted to lock in many positions.
In the unlocked position the tool post hole stays free. Banjos with clamping nuts you have to learn not to let the nuts block the hole.
ONEWAY banjo has a narrower base which makes a big difference when I reverse chuck to turn off the bottom of a piece. When I do this on the powermatic I have to advance the quill on the tailstock a couple of inches to get a short tool rest in position so the banjo doesn’t hit the tailstock.
ONEWAY banjo is very easy to move one handed,
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I have a 3520A. I've never had a problem with dented tool posts. I do use a Robust and a Bestwoodtools tool rest most of the time. Their tool posts are much harder than the Powermatic tool posts. The 3520c banjo has a gripping style tool post clamp so that may be an option.
Reading everyone’s replies has me wondering if the issue is more the original cast tool rest. The amount of deformation isn’t catastrophic, just enough to inhibit the free movement of the post. If I move to a hardened post, will I have enough “grab” with the screw clamp versus pinch?
Attachments
Jet has revised the banjo/clamp to a wedge style system on the new lathes. Not sure how it compares. I guess I have to go look at one in person. Shucks.
Buy a Robust Banjo. I purchased one for my Powermatic back when I had it, and it worked extremely well!
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Wow. That looks like it just may be your problem!
That post looks just like my old HF tool rest posts (one of the reasons I bought the oneway rests when they came up available!) looks like post is cast iron, which is very soft in comparison to the typical steel posts I find on other rests.
When I found that the Sorby modular post I had bought (so I could put together a 25mm S-shape bowl toolrest) was so much harder, and I could crank the screw down tighter to keep things in place (the HF posts liked to slip around even with lock screw pressure) , is when I started looking for replacement tool rests.. Then I came across that Laguna banjo for 1 inch posts shortly after, and solved my tool rest problems.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I have a variety of tool rests. Some from Robust and some from Bestwoodtools and several hand made using drill rod. None of the mark and all seem to lock up well. Every once in a while I will notice the tool rest starting to move. I tighten it and it stays well. I dont know whether I just didnt tighten it enough the first time or what. The denting on my Powermatic tool posts has never been a problem. They are 20 years old.
Personally I don't like the Oneway banjo. I barely lock the tool armrest and then always seenm to have to really hog it to get it loose. The new Powermatic banjo has a really strong pinch style lock. However sometimes you have to tap on the tool rest to get it move after you loosen it. The Robust banjo is the best one I've used.
Personally I don't like the Oneway banjo. I barely lock the tool armrest and then always seenm to have to really hog it to get it loose. The new Powermatic banjo has a really strong pinch style lock. However sometimes you have to tap on the tool rest to get it move after you loosen it. The Robust banjo is the best one I've used.
I have not liked the 'set screw' type of tool rests, going back over 20 years. To me, they are designed to fail. The soft 'pot' metal for the handle lever, against the hardened set screw will strip, when, not if. On my 3520A, the original set screw had a brass insert on the end, but it still slipped. I had a machinist friend make a sliding T handle like you find on the bench vices, and it worked a LOT better. When I got my AB, I fell in love with the locking wedges, but the lever handle still had that problem. After the handle stripped, I found that a mini set of vice grips fit the cogs on the set screw almost identically. I did see the 3520C variation on the locking wedges, and I think they solved the pivoting that the wedges can do, which some times makes it difficult to get rotated and I have to stick my finger in to push them back. They do require some lubing once in a while. Can't remember specifically the Oneway variation. I think it had a longer handle, and the handle was hinged. The Robust banjo may fit your lathe, a 16 inch lathe? Also, Oneway is a good bet too.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Here it is Odie.Hi Bill.......I'd love to see photos of your shop's 9 lathes in this thread:
Photo of your workstation
How about a photo of your main turning workstation? It's nice to see what folks came up with for storage, accessibility.www.aawforum.org
I sure wish I had the room for another lathe, but all I have is aisle ways, with no room to spare!
-----odie-----
Attachments
Odie there are a lot more photos in the "show your shop" thread.
Couldn't find them with a search, Bill......If you could supply a link, that would be helpful.
thanks
-----odie-----
I’ve used jet oem tool rests - no thanks. Recommend you start with either Robust or Steve Sinner Adv Lathe Tools rests with hardened top rod.
Cast rests are a pita, and the soft shaft dents easily by the set screw. Shape the set screw end slightly convex, get tool rests with steel shafts, and that problem is solved, but it doesnt address the too short banjos on those jet lathes.
Cast rests are a pita, and the soft shaft dents easily by the set screw. Shape the set screw end slightly convex, get tool rests with steel shafts, and that problem is solved, but it doesnt address the too short banjos on those jet lathes.
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Photo of your workstation
How about a photo of your main turning workstation? It's nice to see what folks came up with for storage, accessibility.
OK....got it now, BillOdie this is the thread and I'm below your shop photos.Photo of your workstation
How about a photo of your main turning workstation? It's nice to see what folks came up with for storage, accessibility.
Thanks,
-----odie-----
If anyone else is following this, Bill's photos are post #27
As I tend to make my own, I really dont this issue. Although my first lathe was Grizzly like generic and the tool post did mark up some but nowhere near what you have. These days I one lathe with 8mm screw lock and the other is a cam lock. As Robbo alluded to, the screw has it drawbacks and it something I have meaning to sort out for a while now
Andrew,
If you're looking for information on which banjo to buy, then this won't help.
If you want a simple, inexpensive cure you might find it at your local hardware store.
Two brass bolts and a box end wrench or socket wrench. Knock down the first 1/8" (approx.) of thread on each bolt and use them. After much use the bolt ends will mushroom to where they need to be redressed. With good bolts and proper use this should be 3-5 years.
Good luck and happy turning,
Terry Brown
If you're looking for information on which banjo to buy, then this won't help.
If you want a simple, inexpensive cure you might find it at your local hardware store.
Two brass bolts and a box end wrench or socket wrench. Knock down the first 1/8" (approx.) of thread on each bolt and use them. After much use the bolt ends will mushroom to where they need to be redressed. With good bolts and proper use this should be 3-5 years.
Good luck and happy turning,
Terry Brown
Lots of helpful insight here! Since I posted this, I have been paying more attention to what is happening and thinking through the why and how. I move the rest position nearly constantly when turning bowls and forms. A little up, a little down, spin it and do it again. This results not only in a dimpled post, but also fine iron dust that binds the whole thing up. I move the banjo as well, but it feels like I am moving the rest more to compensate for…….what? Doug Freeman mentioned the ‘short” banjos on the Delta lathes, does a Robust or Oneway have greater reach where I am only sliding the banjo as opposed to constantly fiddling with the rest?
Could also be some bad/inefficient habits on the turner’s part……..
Looks to me like you grossly over tighten that bolt! It takes a lot of pressure to deform any kind of metal that much! You can epoxy a bit of brass rod to the end of the bolt, or put a slug of brass in the hole before bringing in the bolt.
Agreed. I used to crank down the banjo screw on my General 260 and even lengthened the tommy bar but never dented the tool rest post. I wound up with a Oneway banjo which grips the ways and tool post with ease. Fighting equipment is a losing battle.
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Not necessarily the case... if you have an ill-fitting tool rest or banjo (or not perfectly round) you'll experience gouging and scoring as the tool rest bears the pressure of the tool in use on only a couple or three small surface areas - The tool rest will shift, twist, slip down and more, all that pounding really does a number on any kind of metal - even with brass or aluminum screw tips (ever seen a cast iron engine bore shredded to pieces by a broken aluminum connecting rod? I have!) In order to make the tool test stay in place, on some of these poorer-quality banjos or tool rests, you just about HAVE to crank down as hard as you can (and even then it does not always hold) Not everyone has had to deal with a crappy, inferior quality lathe like some of us have had to...
Newbie question here...I am using the original cast iron tool rest that came with my Jet, and somehow I dinged it. I cleaned it up with a mill file, but it got me going down a rabbit hole on what other tool rests I should consider. I can appreciate upgrading to the Robust comfort rest with a hardened rod, but do you recommend investing in interior/exterior curved rests too? I wonder if it's more of a skill building exercise to get a clean cut on a curve with a straight rest.
Robust or Advanced Lathe Tools rests. I have the in and out Robust rests - I dont use them that much. I was able to get a couple of @robo hippy ‘s rests before he stopped production, I like them better than the Robust inner. At the right bowl size range the Robust rests work well but they are somewhat limited. Both are ~8” radius.
As my skills improved and experience grew having a curved rest became a lot less important. I’d recommend one of Robust J rests over the inner. The outer rest is more useful than the inner IMO.
As my skills improved and experience grew having a curved rest became a lot less important. I’d recommend one of Robust J rests over the inner. The outer rest is more useful than the inner IMO.
Thanks for the tip on Advanced. I hadn't heard of them before.
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Depends on what and how you turn.
I like the robust 14” j rest for hollowing bowls over 14”
I have a 4” comfort rest that is great for reverse turning the bottom of bowls and hollow forms great for spheres and finials
I’ve used the longer comfort rests a lot in demos. They interfere with pull cuts. When you drop the handle the tool hits the bottom of the rest and comes off the top of the rest. If you plan to do pull cuts you will have to switch to another rest
I don’t use a curved rest. I find they get in my way more than help.
If I were hollowing using scrapers I would want a curved rest to get closer to the wood.
Raising the tool rest alleviates the problem of the tool handle hitting the bottom of the rest during pull/slicing cuts and shear scraping.
Not necessarily. In many cases, I prefer the Robust low profile rests, which provide easier access at steeper angles, especially for spindle work. The comfort rests may or may not work. The profile of the cast tool rests with the angled surface below the top are very ill-adapted to making cuts with the gouge at a very steep angle. When teaching classes on Powermatics, I replace the cast tool rest with a Robust (or similar) rest before class begins.
On a more basic level, it is useful to roughly match the length of the tool rest to the dimensions of what you are turning. The stock tool rests on full-size lathes are far too long for working comfortably on smaller pieces. It is useful to have rests of varied lengths.
I was wondering about the lengths. The one I have now is 14" long. I have only been turning bowls, and it is sometimes a bit cumbersome. I can't imagine going any longer.
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It’s not the handle it is the bar. It’s much more comfortable to just use another tool rest.
I have something like 9 tool rests of different shapes and sizes. Several are J shapes (including one custom left hand J). They all get used. But what YOU need depends on what you are making and how you are approaching it. Calabash? Shallow bowl? Hollow form? Etc. Tool rests are tools, so the best tool for the job maxum applies.
The 'bowl' rests that were 1/3 or so of an arc of a circle, Oneway and Robust in particular, were a royal pain to move around. I built my rests so I would have some thing that worked the way I wanted to it. Robust is not making some thing similar, but I haven't seen one or tried it out, so don't really know. While designed for turning the inside of a bowl, it could be flipped around and made a great outside the bowl tool rest. Never liked straight rests, again because it took more 'positioning' of the banjo and tool rest. Oh, the 'inside' rest from Oneway would bounce when you were turning at the very end/tip of it.
robo hippy
robo hippy
I've done enough woodturning to know darn well what "Banjo aggravation" is referring to, and I love my 3520C banjo. But having been a bluegrass musician a few decades back, every time I see it, my first thought is "Yeah, I know what you mean".