Beginner - Sharpening (cheap)?

[flooshee]

I have owned a lathe for a couple years and done a few small projects, but I have never ever sharpened my tools. After several years of neglect, I want to get back into turning, so I figured the first thing to do is to learn to sharpen my abused tools.

What is the best way for a beginner to learn this? I am personally scared to death that I will damage my tools even more. Also, I have no grinder or belt sander, and I don't have the budget for one either. I saw some type of lathe-mounted sharpening system in a book ("Two Books in One: Woodturning"). Does this work, or is it a really bad idea? Also, I didn't buy the book, so I don't remember how to make the system. Any pointers?

Yeah, I need a lot of help. But, I think woodturning is awesome, and I really want to learn it right.

Thanks in advance,
Andrew

 

[dkulze]

Couple er things. Rockler has the Wolverine system on sale right now for $49. If you can scrape that up, go ahead and snag it. This will save you 40-50 later on.

For a decent sharpening rig that will hold you for years, figure a full investment of about $150-200. This includes an inexpensive grinder, low heat wheel, Wolverine setup with Varigrind. For the el-cheapo approach, look up homemade settups that give you the same effect. If you have access to a welder, you can build pretty much anything you'll need for sharpening jigs.

But ya still need a grinder. A super cheap for $50 will work but you're much better off going ahead and spending another $40 and getting a decent 8" low speed grinder that already has a low heat wheel.

Hand sharpening tools is doable but takes lots of practice and a fairly high amount of skill. Freehanding it on a grinder is much easier but still take a lot of practice and a fair amount of skills. Sharpening with jigs takes most of the work out of it and is worth the investment just in extending tool life and improving learning curves.

Best bet overall is to find the nearest AAW club and call the president. Ask for some hands-on assistance and they'll give you several folks to call. You'll be surprised how helpful folks will want to be.

Good luck,
Dietrich

 

[S. Clark]

Andrew, your going to have to spend some $ if only to get a good lap stone and do them by hand. But frankly, the next most important tool to go with your lathe is a grinder. You can get by on the cheap by using an old washing machine motor and making your own mount and housing. This is exactly what I did and have used it for years. I still use it even though I now own a “real†grinder. My home made one is more portable and is what I use for my demo’s. You’ll still have to purchase a threaded arbor and an eight inch wheel for it, but in the end this will probably cost less than $30 if you buy the inexpensive gray wheel. Be sure to use a slow speed motor; 1700 RPM or less. You can buy a cheap grinder for about $100 from Woodcraft, and it is well worth it. You’ll still need to make a proper tool rest for it. The little ones that come with it are totally inadequate. I made my own following Keith Rowley’s plans from his book “Woodturning, a fundamental courseâ€Â. This book also does a good job teaching the basics about sharpening.

There are dozens of grinding “systems†out there. They all work fine once you learn how to use them. I’ve seen things that install on a lathe. Some of these cost hundreds of dollars but in the end, they way your tools get sharpened is irrelevant. The fact that you get them sharp and keep them that way is what counts. You need to sharpen frequently as you turn so having a lathe mounted system is not practical. You’d have to keep removing your turning, mounting the sharpening system, then removing it and remounting the turning. The thing is, you want to spend your time turning wood not messing with sharpening. So the investment in a basic grinder is worth while.

- Scott

 

[flooshee]

I appreciate your speedy replies. I realize I will have to spend some $, but $150 is way out of the question. One system I saw relied on some kind of sanding discs mounted to the lathe faceplate. This looked like an affordable alternative, but I was curious exactly how to construct & use it. Also, is it bad for the tools themselves?

I look forward to learning more from all of you.
Andrew

 

[john lucas]

I used a sanding disc for quite a few years. It has plus's and minus's. On the plus side, it's very inexpensive and works very well. If you have carbon steel tools you don't want to overheat them. A sanding disc has the advantage of being able to work toward the middle of the wheel. The surface speed of the sandpaper is lower in the middle than the outer edge so you can sharpen much slower and cooler. If you build some sort of tool rest you can control the sharpening quite will with this system.
The minus's, the sandpaper wears out quickly. You can get around this buy buying some of the better ceramic sandpaper discs. It's a little harder to rig up certain sharpening jigs to a disc sander.
I have used 1" strip sanders and also a 3" belt sander mounted on a homemade stand so it worked like a strip sander. These work well also but can easily overheat a tool. If you have High Speed steel tools then this isn't a problem.
If you look around you can find used grinders pretty inexpensively. Then you put a white grinding wheel on it and you have a pretty good system. Eventually you will want a grinder that doesn't vibrate and the wheels run true. These are more expensive.
I highly urge you to buy the AAW video on sharpening. What is good about it, is that you get 3 different view points on sharpening and can then choose the one that works for you. Even though they don't discuss sanding discs some of the same techniques work.
Now back to your first question, building a disc. I've done it 2 ways. One was to turn a disc that would fit my handwheel on the outboard side of the lathe. Then glue sandpaper to this. This way the sharpening wheel is always where you need it. The downside is that it makes the handwheel hard to use.
The other thing I've done is to make a dedicated sharpening disc to fit on the spindle or if you have a chuck, to fit your chuck. Get a nut that fits your spindle threads and glue it into a board. Turn this true. You may have to stack up a few layers of boards to be able to drill a hole to put the nut in.
The other way to do it is if you have a chuck simply turn a rebate in a disc and mount this on the chuck. True up the front surface and mount the sandpaper.
Hope that helped. My dinner is now ready so I need to stop typing and eat.

 

[George Van Beynen]

Couple er things. Rockler has the Wolverine system on sale right now for $49. If you can scrape that up, go ahead and snag it. This will save you 40-50 later on.

Thanks Dietrich, I just ordered one for my second grinder at that price, it will be handy!

George

 

[flooshee]

John,

Thanks for the sanding disc tips. This is the kind-of system I am hoping to rig up. I think it will be easy on the wallet and also let me figure out what in the heck I am doing. I'll try checking into the video.

I appreciate and welcome any more info people want to share, especially regarding specifics (grits of sanding discs, etc). I am really obtuse as far as this is concerned.

Andrew

 

[JimQ]

Andrew, What part of C'ville do you live in? I used to spend a lot of time there when I was growing up. Out on E. High St. E-mail me.



JimQ

 

[WoodDoc]

If I understand correctly, even with the basic Wolverine jig you will have to get a gouge-sharpening attachment for another $50, right? So you will still be out >$100, not to mention the grinder.

I have a regular 8" high-speed grinder with a white wheel, as well as a Veritas rest/jig for grinding straight bevels, e.g., plane irons. I am learning to grind my lathe tools freehand using the angle of the tool rest for a guide. It's a bit of a learning curve, but can be done. For final honing and deburring I use a 1000-grit watersoaked slipstone (~$10). (Alan Lacer uses and sells a really cool diamond slipstone for ~$90--nice but $$$!)

I'm just a newbie turner, but IMO this is about as cheap as you can get away with. There's really no substitute for a basic grinder and a white wheel other than really expensive machines, as far as I can tell. And there's no substitute for sharp tools.

 

[William Young]

how much actual advantage is there to a 8 inch grinder over a 6 inch one.
i only have a 6 inch one with a white wheel and a few jigs.
it seems to be doing a good job of sharpening.
i would think it is just an ordinary high speed one because it was not expensive.
nearly all my tools are high speed steel so is a slower speed grinder really necessary regardless of whether it be 6 or 8 inch ?
w.y.

 

[WoodDoc]

Bigger is always better isn't it??

I don't know there's much of an advantage, but an 8" wheel will be moving quite a bit faster on the edge than a 6" wheel at the same RPM, that is, (8^2 - 6^2)/6^2, or 78% faster.

I have read comments by quite a few pro turners, many of whom prefer a fast wheel because it gets the job done quicker. The advantage of a slower wheel is less chance of heat damage to the metal.

 

[RonW]

A Sorby Tool rep at a recent demo, suggested using sanding disks which he makes by Mounting 6" round sanding disks to wood disks which are then mounted to the lathe. Works very well and.... very cheep.

Ron Wilson

 

[flooshee]

Ron,

This is the system I am looking into. I just have to figure out what kind-of sanding discs to use. Maybe I have some books that suggest the grits, etc. At least it will give me a system to begin practicing my sharpening skills.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[john lucas]

Andrew Any sanding disc will work. Some just wear out faster than others. I find that 80 to 120 works but the finer grits tend to heat up the tool more rapidly so you have to work closer to the center. My dad always has 120 grit on his big 12" wheel and I have use a very light touch to sharpen on his disc. 120 also removes metal so slowly that if you aren't exactly on the bevel of the tool it takes forever to sharpen. What I do is touch the bottom of the bevel to the disc and then lift the handle until I see sparks start to come over the top. Then I rotate the tool trying to keep the sparks coming over until I've sharpened the whole edge.

 

[JimQ]

WoodDoc, The inch per second speed is 1/3 faster on an 8" grinder than on a 6" at the same RPM, or a 6" is 1/4 slower than a 8". The formula is 2 x Pi x R. 6" has a circumference of 18.85" and the 8" is 25.13"

JimQ

 

[S. Clark]

how much actual advantage is there to a 8 inch grinder over a 6 inch one.
i only have a 6 inch one with a white wheel and a few jigs.
it seems to be doing a good job of sharpening.
i would think it is just an ordinary high speed one because it was not expensive.
nearly all my tools are high speed steel so is a slower speed grinder really necessary regardless of whether it be 6 or 8 inch ?
w.y.

It is difficult to achieve a flat bevel using a 6" wheel. Actually a 6†wheel is ok but as it gets worn down the effect is exaggerated. You get what is referred to as a hollow grind. On some tools, like wood chisels, this can be useful but with your lathe tools a flat bevel will allow better tool control. This is only true with bevel rubbing tools; skews, gouges, etc. With parting tools, scrapers, and the like, it is of no importance. This is pretty nit-picky stuff and in the end all you need is a clean sharp edge.

As for slower speed, this is simply to reduce heat on the steel. I’ve seen turners put so much pressure on the grinder that even a slow speed causes the steel to blue. You need to avoid this in order to hold a good edge. High speed steel is more heat tolerant. You can still screw it up though if you lean into it.

 

[WoodDoc]

WoodDoc, The inch per second speed is 1/3 faster on an 8" grinder than on a 6" at the same RPM, or a 6" is 1/4 slower than a 8". The formula is 2 x Pi x R. 6" has a circumference of 18.85" and the 8" is 25.13"

JimQ

I stand corrected. I had a momentary lapse of reason. Hard to believe I started out college as a math major.

 

[William Young]

thanks for the responses;
as far as the smaller wheel going faster and causing burning that is not a problem for me . i use a light touch and respect the quality and price of my tools too much to lean into them to the point of burning the ends.

but if i start getting too much of a hollow grind as the wheel wears down i will probably go to the bigger grinder. .

now might be a good time to start watching the want adds for a good used 8 inch one.
w.y.

 

[JimQ]

WoodDoc, don't feel too bad, I spent the largest part of my working life as an over the road truck driver. Surprising what I found to read when waiting for loads, including a college calculus book, and accounting books. Now I teach Tax classes for H&R Block.

JimQ

 

[dkulze]

Couple er more things. There's lots of sites out there that discuss how to make your own grinding jigs. It's pretty easy to make a basic gouge grinding jig since all it is is a movable cup to rest the base of the handle in while grinding a consistant angle on the tip. Add some type of angled holder to this and you have an Irish/Ellsworth/fingernail grind jig. With a welder or a well stocked shop, this is quite makable.

Second, I've found that the difference between a 6" and 8" grinder is mostly how quickly the wheel will wear and how wide a wheel I can mount, as the 6" are usually set up for a skinny wheel. Wider is nice. I don't drop off the sides as much and it takes longer to get it out of flat. Between slow and high speed, with the nice HSS tools, temp isn't really an issue. What is is the "oops" factor. Much easier to screw up the grind and have to start over again with a fast wheel. Slow is a bit more forgiving.

Finally, one thing that hasn't been mentioned here is exploding wheels. The nice part about getting an actual grinder is the wheel guard. If you're lucky, you'll never have a wheel crack and explode. If not, chunks of rock weighing in at over a pound and flying at your head are a major unhappy. After having a friend point this out to me, that annoying guard I'd removed went right back on the grinder and my plans to mount an 8" wheel on my 6" grinder went right in to the garbage.

Dietrich