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Best UV inhibiting finish for Bois D'arc and other colored wood

Rusty Fleeman

Rusty Fleeman

Joined
Mar 16, 2015
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Location
Texas
I'm sure there's already a great conversation out there some where on this, but I have just obtained some of the most vivid yellow/gold colored Bois D'arc I've ever seen. What do you all use to finish such woods to maintain the unique color as long as possible. I know all Woods will alter with time and UV exposure, but I sure would love to delay the inevitable as long as possible! Thanks for your input.
 
Enjoying the vivid almost glow-in-the-dark-fluorescent yellow color of freshly cut Bois d'Arc is a pleasure that not many other people besides woodturners get to enjoy. Unfortunately, the color will soon change to a rich chocolate brown. The color will change even in a somewhat dark room so I don't think that UV light is necessarily the culprit. Maybe it's exposure to air. It would be wonderful it the fantastic yellow color could be retained. I have experienced similar spectacular colors in freshly cut green wood of other species, most notably was from a redbud tree in our back yard which exhibited a whole rainbow of colors until the wood began to dry out.
 
That's what I've been seeing. I saw one article saying marine grade varnish slows it down but not much. Oh well. I guess I better enjoy it while I can! The wood will still be a nice change from the mesquite I typically get.
 
With FBE I've had good luck with acrylic. The specific brand was ML Campbell I think. I used it 11 years ago and still have vivid red color in the piece.
 
Well I did a lot of testing one year on Osage Orange and Box Elder and Cherry. I tried several different UV inhibitors including some sprays used to keep outdoor photographs from fading. When placed in direct sunlight for 2 days Box Elder red turned to brown and Osage went to it's darker tan look. 2 days was all it took not an extended period. The only one that worked at all was Spar Varnish which lasted a few days longer but it's such an ugly orange color that most of us would never think of using it on fine turnings. Now this was direct sun for probably 16 hours a day. If you keep the work out if direct light it can last for many years. I have some Box Elder pieces that are well over 12 years old that still have good color. Maybe not as good as they were to begin with and they have been sitting mostly in a class enclosed cabinet out of any direct light. The Osage pieces I have have all turned to that really pretty tan. If you want that really pretty yellow find some Mulberry or Yellow heart. They both stay yellow but neither has the look of freshly cut Osage.
You can bleach a piece but if often changes the color as well as lighten it. Osage if you bleach it enough it actually goes gray. Box Elder light areas will bleach, the Red and tan's don't. This looks nice because it adds visual contrast to the red when the wood next to it get lighter. It doesn't however stop the sunlight from fading the red. One experiment I plan to do one of these days is to bleach Cedar just a little. I love the colors of cedar straight off the tool but when you put a finish on it the wood gets much darker and I don't like it much. I thought that if I bleached it a few shades lighter then when I put the finish on and it darkens maybe it would only darken to where I like it. I tried once on a thin bowl and the bowl blew up right before my eyes. The bleach penetrated the wood so rapidly that those areas swelled the other areas that were still dry didn't and everything cracked. Next time I try that I'm going to dunk the whole bowl in water so everything is soaked evenly and then apply the bleach.
 
Rusty Fleeman said:
That's what I've been seeing. I saw one article saying marine grade varnish slows it down but not much. Oh well. I guess I better enjoy it while I can! The wood will still be a nice change from the mesquite I typically get.
Click to expand...

On exterior eastern red cedar doors I use Waterlox Marine Sealer followed by Waterlox High Gloss Marine. Yes, it slows down the color change due to UV. As most marine varnish finishes it's somewhat soft (flexible) so not sure how you would like it on a wood turning. Pretty expensive also.
 
Spray Deft. Try it - several coats, one after another with a short waiting period in between, It dries fast, so subsequent coats can go on quickly. I have pieces done over 40 years ago that still retain good color. Wear good respiration and have good ventilation though. Build up the the finish then steel wool/buff it back. The more coats the better chance of keeping the color. BTW, I agree with Bill, it's not just UV, it's also oxidation. The soonest you can spray it on the better.
 
Mark, what type of Deft do you use? Is it the oil based lacquer? I was looking for Deft at the local hardware store and found a couple of different types. Will only the spray work? What about brush on, either water or oil based? Any thoughts you could share would be helpful. Thanks!
 
Jon Minerich said:
Mark, what type of Deft do you use? Is it the oil based lacquer? I was looking for Deft at the local hardware store and found a couple of different types. Will only the spray work? What about brush on, either water or oil based? Any thoughts you could share would be helpful. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Hey Joe,
I use the original deft oil based gloss or semi-gloss aerosol. Satin works too, but I have found that the gloss or semi-gloss works best. Brushing lacquer Deft is fine as well. Not water based, however. I use the aerosol to lock in colors when needed, which is not frequently, for me. Many years ago I used it a lot, and needed it last year and sought the original formula type, used the aerosol, and it worked great. I know that a base coating of several deft coats can be used, then build up several light Waterlox wipe on/off original finish over that works well too. Buff with Tripoli. The Deft will lock in the color and the Waterlox will prvide a tougher finish coat. Always use the original formulas, and I prefer the gloss as it is the clearest. I still have pieces from the seventies using that exact combination that are still clear today.
 
I don't want to dissagree with Mark, he's been doing this a lot longer than I have. However I tried Deft in my experiments, along with a commercial grade lacquer that we can get locally and another brand that I can't remember that claimed to have a high UV inhibitor included in it. In that same experiment I tried 2 different Polyeurethanes, Waterlox, Shellac, and a few other spray on "Art" finished designed to spray on artwork to prolong it's longevity. I already mentioned the Photo spray. None of them worked when subjected to direct light for 2 days. I was frankly quite shocked and frustrated. these were all freshly cut and sanded pieces of wood with the finish applied that day. Now a lot of things work well when the work is not in direct sunlight. I have been using the same commercial grade lacquer from a company in Crossville, TN called Benco for my hand mirrors and they all still look great. At least the ones I can keep track of. If there is any degradation it's too hard to tell. I don't have before and after photos of the same thing unfortunately. These mirrors have been stored inside either on shelves or dressers or in some cases show cases.
 
No problem dissagreeing John, I dissagree with myself all the time :-). To begin with, I wouldn't make that claim relative to putting an object in direct sunlight. I actually don't think that is possible at this point in time. Let me me take another run at it, however.

I have a few ideas that I'd like to contribute to your experiments. I don't have much interest in working with Osage, especially because of the fading issues, but I am interested in the process, the puzzle of determining something that could work. Archival-ness, or longevity, is something that photographers who print their work are obsessed with, and as you probably know, there are three laboratories in the US: Aardenburg Imaging, (run by Mark McCormick Goodhart) who worked for 9 years at the Smithsonian, Wilhelm Institute (run by Henry Wilhelm) (who McCormick Goodhart worked with initially), and the IPI (Image Permanence Institute) at Rochester Institute of Technology. In all cases, "ink science" is at the center of longevity, followed by "paper science" the substrates that carry the inks. At this moment, under the right storage conditions, on the correspondingly archival papers, Hewlett Packard's Vivera Inkset is currently king of the hill, exhibiting 300 year longevity without significant fading, besting both Epson and Canon inks.

Knowing just enough to be dangerous about the subject, and having three 44" Wide HP Z3200ps wide format printers, I have an interest in using the best of materials in the prints I make of my photographic work. In dealing with the subject, I too have experimented with UV inhibiting materials and processes, and although not currently able to give a definitive answer, as I said I have some suggestions for continuing experiments.

Wondering if you did experiment with a finish sold by a company called Breathing Color, called Timeless? Timeless is a varnish used to protect prints made on canvas and to help impede UV deterioration. According to their website, ( https://www.breathingcolor.com/timeless ) Timeless Varnish is:
  • * Certified 100+ year archival by the Fine Art Trade Guild
  • * Formulated to work perfectly with Breathing Color products
  • * Available in High Gloss, Satin, and True Matte finishes
  • * No diluting required. Ready to use right out of the container
  • * Apply with roller (use our Timeless Roller) or HVLP spay gun (see how)
  • * UV protection build right in, so your prints will last longer
  • * Manufacturer direct supply for the lowest pricing and the highest quality
Many fine art printers use Timeless in conjunction with archival inks on archival substrates to prevent fading. There are, of course a number of aerosol delivery rattle can spray varnishes that also have claims to UV protection. I don't know what you experimented with.

I have found that not only the products, but the method of application is critical in achieving success. I use distilled water and dilute the varnish and heat both the varnish and the substrate while applying the first coats to ensure the deepest penetration, including a few drops of photo-flo.

This is just one suggestion - not sure if you have tried it, and I think it would require a significant buildup to accomplish anything of real value on wood.

Secondly, I have used and have experimented with Rabbit Skin Glue, which has been traditionally a size used by artists to mix with gesso for priming canvasses. Gilders have long used rabbit skin glue as a size for gold leafing. I have mixed thin solutions and put on woods that have fade problems and as long as I can achieve a good enough initial penetration and subsequent build up coatings (all done warm) gradually thickening the mixture and using that as a base coat, that over the years it has proven to be a significant UV inhibitor in certain cases. As I have never tried it with Osage, I couldn't say, but I would recommend at least trying it, as it has been a widely used material by artists over several millennia. They make synthetic RSG these days, so it vital to get the original granules. Moser carries it.

I won't belabor the point about Deft, other than to say using my process of application, applying the finish from warm to hot on both the wood and heating the Deft, I was able to achieve excellent penetration and felt what I got was successful, however, not by any stretch of the imagination in direct sunlight exposure, which makes it entirely no contest.

I would imagine there are UV curable finishes out there however, that would do the trick. If using UV to actually cure the product, then how could UV harm it? Roland among several others makes a clear UV curable ink, perhaps that's a place to start.

Here is another approach: Nanoparticle-based plasmonic 'pigments' are an area to investigate as well. Ultimately blocking UV is at the heart of it and sturdy coatings to keep those things in place abound. Particles can be customised to block specific wavelengths.

This website actually sells plasmonic metal nano particles: https://nanocomposix.com/pages/plasmonics

According to them: "By changing nanoparticle size, shape, and composition, the optical response can be tuned from the ultraviolet through the visible to the near-infrared regions of the electromagnetic spectrum."

That's about all I got. Good luck with it. I keep most of my pieces in archival storage, so I guess what I have offered previously just doesn't count. Mulberry is another one that will fade to brown, as eventually will many exotic woods such as Cocobolo as well all know.

Mark
 
Excellent Mark. As a photographer I did study all the archival inks and other things. My boss and I tried a lot of different finishes because we made a lot of posters and panels that were frequently displayed outside. We use my Bosses window for the test because it was east facing and got sun from morning until noon. Nothing we tried worked for more than a week in that direct sunlight. Wish I could remember all the brands but that was about 6 or 7 years ago. Wish I had time to do a lot of experiments but at this stage I'm happy with the lacquer I use. I appreciate your responses.
 
It very well may not be from the UV. My guess is it's oxidation plays a big role. And even with a coating, unless the moisture content is very low, then you could still get oxidation from the moisture in it.
 
Just saw where General Finishes is coming out with "UV Cure" Urethane. I don't have specifics but may be relevant to this discussion.
 
I've been looking at all the different deck finishes to see which ones will hold up the best in the intense summer sunlight that we get in this part of the country. What I have found is that the clear finishes provide no UV protection. The tinted finishes provide limited UV protection, but the wood grain is somewhat obscured. The deck stains that provide the best UV protection are heavily pigmented and basically opaque paint that completely obscures the wood.

As already mentioned, the varnishes that provide UV protection darken the wood considerably and also somewhat obscure the figure. It seems sort of pointless to preserve the color of wood by using a finish that hides the color of the wood. :D
 
I haven’t really tried to keep new wood color on old wood, maybe I like the older color better than the newer color, besides I think mother nature will always win in the end :)

I should rephrase that, I usually like the color that the wood gets as it gets older better than what the wood color is when turned just a few days ago o_O

Osage Orange box.jpg Osage Orange box older.jpg
 
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Bob If you bleach Osage with too generations it turns gray. I was shocked when this happened. 3 or 4 coats might do the trick but I think it would still darken with age. Now if you used yellow paint it would stay that color. :)
 
So much great advice and guidance from you all! Thanks for the input. I'll let you know how it goes. For now , they are sealed blanks stored inside a lidded trashcan. I am hoping this will retard any color loss until I can get the pieces turned.
 
The color only fades on the outside. Once you cut into it you'll have fresh new color. The reason I say it's UV and not oxidation that causes the color shift is I have boxes made from woods like Cherry, Purple heart, and Osage. The inside of the boxes are just like day one. The outside of course has changed color. When you first turn purple heart it will appear brown. Once you put it in the sun it turns purple. Over the years the purple gets darker.
When I sell pieces that are made from Osage I let them sit around the shop until the color has shifted. I don't want a customer coming back to me because the color shifted on them.
 
john lucas said:
The color only fades on the outside. Once you cut into it you'll have fresh new color. The reason I say it's UV and not oxidation that causes the color shift is I have boxes made from woods like Cherry, Purple heart, and Osage. The inside of the boxes are just like day one.
Click to expand...

If you look at the pictures of the Osage I added previously in this thread, you can see that the inside color is nearly as dark as the outside of that box, oxidation does that, that box sits with the lid inside in a regular lighted room.

I have some small boxes from Padouk and Bloodwood and Mulberry and Purpleheart here and they all have changed in the 20 or so years on the inside as well as the outside, but not at the same amount, both the Padouk and

Bloodwood have changed less on the inside than the Mulberry and Osage Orange or Purpleheart, my conclusion is that not all wood is equally affected by oxidation.[/QUOTE]
 
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