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Bottom of Bowl Designs and Signatures

Norm Marentette

Norm Marentette

Joined
Jun 2, 2021
Messages
243
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594
Location
Kingsville, ON
After 3 years of intense bowl turning I am at the point where I feel I have the design form done but still struggle with 2 things, design of the bottom and signature design or process. I am really interested what other turners think and are doing? I am still not happy with a design I have been working on. I feel the bottom of the bowl design could be the final determination of buying a bowl? I am sure this probably something that changes and develops with experience and tastes of individual turners over time. I have decided on a signature and type of wood only on it but may incorporate location where wood was harvested. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
 

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Some turners put the species of wood, the date made, their name and anything else they can think of. They use ink , a burning pen or branding iron. The bottom does not sell the bowl. Because I make and sell between 150 - 200 bowls a year I don't have time to do any of that. I use a branding iron with my initials . Do what ever moves you.
 
Do not put a date on there. If it doesn't move right away, that date will trigger a psychological reaction that will work against you.

-o-
 
In my humble opinion it looks like there is too much mass on the bottom of your bowl. I would remove everything in the middle so the bowl only sits on the outer rim of the foot. Are you turning them while mounted to a recess? You might want to try a tenon that you can turn off after hollowing the bowl. Just my 2c.
 
Norm, your bowl shapes look good, but as you describe, your feet could be improved. Here are my humble thoughts, since you asked. Some feet are a little large in diameter, the rule of thumb is "1/3 of the diameter" or so. As mentioned, you could remove some of the mass in the center of the foot, as well--they'll sit better and look more 'finished'.

I've wrestled with the transition from bowl bottom to foot. A good friend was fond of the 'swoop' from bowl bottom to foot, such as you show and have executed nicely, and he sold many pieces in a local gallery. I find, to my eye, it seems ultimately indecisive. A more defined or crisper separation of bowl and foot strikes me as more appealing. I'd be interested in what some of our more artistic members have to say about that.
 
I like a bit smaller foot for my bowls. Platters though get a wider foot for stability. I never measure, but figure I am in the 1/3 or so range of the total diameter. I might get a bit wider for smaller bowls, but not always. Just do it till it looks good to you, and then try another one. It has taken me almost 30 years to get to where I can eyeball my foot size to where I like it.

robo hippy
 
It's really a matter of taste. Since you asked, I find the black circle a bit too bold, compared to your signature. Maybe smaller and thinner? Just my opinion.
 
There are but a few elements to a bowl; body, rim and foot. They should be distinct. I don’t think the swoop works as a transition.
Ideally, the curve of the bowl should continue through the foot. One curve, rim to rim,,including the bottom. The foot can almost appear to be added on.

About 1/3 the large diameter works so well that it’s quick and easy. Plan the 1/3 when you begin making a bowl. Good to have strategies from the start.

I sign my work, and include the species. That’s it. I used to add the date, but dropped that for the reason Odie stated.
I like the bowl back center on your picture. The foot is still too big, but the transition being sharper, is better.
Don’t put lines and textures on the bottom. Try continuing the curve. It will increase the perceived value to your customers.
 
My bottoms vary frequently, Some with an obvious foot, some without, some have a very shallow bead so that when bowkl sits flat, it appears to "float" a little. All depends on the bowl and my mood at the time, pretty much. I don't have a consistent reliable design for bowl bottoms.

As for signatures, I just hand print (archival india ink pen) name, date completed, and species (or in some cases where the bowl is a unique artistic design, and a name comes to mind, I may simply title it, plus species if known)
 
Norm Marentette said:
After 3 years of intense bowl turning I am at the point where I feel I have the design form done but still struggle with 2 things, design of the bottom and signature design or process. I am really interested what other turners think and are doing? I am still not happy with a design I have been working on. I feel the bottom of the bowl design could be the final determination of buying a bowl? I am sure this probably something that changes and develops with experience and tastes of individual turners over time. I have decided on a signature and type of wood only on it but may incorporate location where wood was harvested. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
For every bowl or vessel I add my initials, month/yr. and species of wood. I use a .03 or .05 black Copic marker that are extremely fine. Hope this helps.
 
As Will has said, it's all up to the individual. What I have is a branding iron for the larger pieces 12" plus and all the smaller ones I sign with a Dremel then darken it with a fine sharpie pen, this is all done prior to any finish. Name only unless requested otherwise, some galleries dates, other dates and species. I find the galleries that cater to the tourist trade want species.
As to foot design, size etc again it's aesthetics and the individual. I generally subscribe to the rule of thirds, but as I am near to Southeast Asia and have lived there I am influenced by the region and the rule of thirds has some sway but not always.
 
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odie said:
Do not put a date on there. If it doesn't move right away, that date will trigger a psychological reaction that will work against you.

-o-
Click to expand...
I find this a truly double-edged sword. The negative is wondering what's wrong with it that it hasn't sold prior to this sale. The positive is that it demonstrates how stable your work is in that it isn't warped or cracked from further drying, so the buyer can be assured it's not going to self-destruct when they take it home.
 
Signature only, but I include an individualised double sided folded over ticket with each item that goes to the gallery that provides details about the species (botanic and common name) and anything in particular about the wood. Excuse the setting out here, which doesn't quite work when copied here....


Wood Works
by
Neil Strong

Beautiful pieces of wood that guide me
in what form they might take in their new life beyond the living tree​

This bowl is made from ancient recycled

Murray River Red Gum
(Eucalyptus camaldulensis)
with rare checkerboard grain pattern

A native tree that grows in South Australia.
The piece has been finished with a thin coating of
carnauba and beeswax. ​
PTO​

Also the following blurb on the reverse side...

Finish: a thin coating of food-safe carnauba and beeswax

All pieces are made from recycled or
rescued wood

In support of our planet, no harvested wood is used from native forests.​
Thank you for purchasing this piece. To help you care for it and receive years of pleasure:
• Position out of direct sunlight
• If required:
o Clean with a damp cloth
o Reapply a thin coating of beeswax or pharmacy paraffin oil if in contact with food
o Buff with a soft cloth
​
With time it will develop a rich patina. ​
PTO​
 
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First few years I did not sign my turnings, after that I used a woodburning tool, and I have been signing my turnings for better than 20 years pretty well as I still do, not all the same size, but yes about 1/3 on the regular bowl shaped , much wider on platters and sometimes there is only room for my initials on certain shapes.

Here are 4 pictures that kind of show how I sign my work, one old picture with different pieces that were signed. I put my name, wood species, year it was made, for a while also a number to help sellers to keep track of prices for the pieces, I never have had anyone question the date is was made, if anything it shows the quality of the piece and looks after a number of years.

Here is a typical foot size and shape on a regular bowl

Typical foot on my bowls.jpg

With a small foot there is just room for initials of course.

small foot initialed.jpg

On this cake platter the foot is as wide as possible to make it stable.


Cake platter with maximum foot.jpg

This picture shows different pieces with different size feet and manners of signing them, this was taken in 2005 and I still sign my turnings very similar, also the area within the feet have a lower area within the foot where I sign it.


feet as signed here in 2005.jpg
 
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Great feedback from everyone, really appreciate everyones input. I certainly think a smoother transition to the foot area from the bowl shape is something I will try to attain. As for signature and design, still open to suggestions. Thanks again. Norm.
 
I sign with a wood burning tool and add a code number which includes the date (month and year and the order in that month) plus the type of wood. The code looks like this 5-823 which would be the fifth bowl I made in August 23. No purchaser would connect it with a date, but it is helpful to me as I watch my style and skill (hopefully) progress.
 
I looked at Leo's hollow form and my first thought was, "if I just walked into the room, that piece would fall over". Takes me back to my childhood, "honest mom, all I did was touch it". I am one of those people...

robo hippy
 
To begin I burned my signature but it was uneven so I ordered a brand. Had stopped putting species on and dates. The wife thinks I need to add both . Probably will use roman numeral for year. I do the foot differently on most bowls,
IMG_6407.JPGIMG_6411.JPGIMG_6633.JPG
 
I really like it when the curve of the bowl flows continuously from the sides to the bottom, interrupted by the foot, not a flat bottom-- not explaining this well, I'm afraid. Imagine that the inside of the foot is a curved surface, a dome if you will, that wouid complete the shape of the rest of the bowl in one continuous arc of you were to turn the foot off.
 
Thanks for the info everyone. Rogers comment about the curve on the bottom is what I am going to try for my next few bowls. I agree maybe simple is best.
 
Re: signature - I’ve been using a wood burning pen but it never looks very smooth. Question to those who use an ink pen - under your finish or on top of your finish/wax. I’m worried that some finishes might have a chemical reaction with some inks and bleed. What works? What to avoid?
Thanks
 
Likewise as Kirk, I have had no trouble with any bleed or smear with the archival ink pen I got on Amazon - I believe it is just India Ink. It dries very quickly and I apply my finish (I use a lot of Tried & True original which is linseed oil & beeswax) and have also used rattle can lacquer , as well as Triple Thick Glaze , and neither of them affect the ink at all, far as I have seen, (But they will cause Sharpie ink to run, so I have become adept at a super-light spritz every few minutes when applying lacquer or glaze to my colored spin-tops... up until they have a full coat over top, then I can apply extra coats to get the nice shiny finish) I suppose I could look up my purchase history and get you a link to the one I use , if you want.
 
I’ve been using a cheap engraver with a sharp tip. Works very well to give a fine signature/species/year (though I’m considering dropping the year—just need a better record keeping system). That said, sometimes the engraver doesn’t work well, for example with porous end grain. In that case I use a fine woodburning tip.
 
Not all bowls need a "foot". Sometimes a rounded bottom of a bowl is good. Sometimes a shallow concave on the bottom suffices.
I like Robo's 1/3 the dia of the bowl ......roughly. Have not measured a foot in many years.
When the bottom of the bowl is done, you do not want the new owner to be able to figure out how you mounted the bowl on the lathe.
 
I vary the foot diameter quite a bit depending on the intended use of the piece. 1/3 looks quite good in general, but a bowl intended as a family serving bowl or a kids cereal bowl (or, dare I say it, a dog bowl?) gets a bigger, more stable foot, maybe half the bowl diameter, or much more for Rover. For more artsy pieces the base can be quite small sometimes to achieve a gravity-defying look. Weighting the bottom, eg with lead, can let you use a base only 15-20% the maximum diameter and still be tolerably stable.
 
Norm, your concerns about ink are justified. Most will bleed or run with finish, and often fade over time. Stick with the archival pens mentioned above, if you're going to do ink.
 
I'm looking for a wood burning pen to sign my name and the species, but most of the posts are over 9 years old. Can anyone suggest a pen and tip that actually feels like a pen
 
I think any of the woodburning units will work OK for signatures, like the Colwood Cub. For decorative pyrography, you might want something more sophisticated. I like a small round tip, as it has no significant resistance with whatever I'm trying to write. It seems to me that all brands of the 'pen' parts are similar and corky and only sorta pen-like.
 
We all have different opinions of what looks best and how to do it. I like bowls with a fairly small foot that lifts it off the table. I always complete the outside before turning the inside, gripping the finished foot. I prefer smooth curvatures without bumps and the foot, just sits outside the curve. I use a vibrating Dremel to mark the bowl with my name and species, not the date, which make it akward to sell 10 years later. Also I don´t understand people using a branding iron. Would you use that for an oil painting?


FootEng.jpg
 
Dates: about two years ago the stopped putting dates on my bowls for the same reason Odie mentioned, similarly when gifting one I don’t want the recipient to wonder why I gave them something that was a couple years old.

Instead, I’ve adopted my own version of a date code. 2310 would be the conventional 2023, 10th week. Instead I use my age, and the number of weeks since my birthday. Easy for me to understand and place on the calendar, but meaningless to other unless I’ve let them in on the secret.
 
Ron Solfest said:
Dates: about two years ago the stopped putting dates on my bowls for the same reason Odie mentioned, similarly when gifting one I don’t want the recipient to wonder why I gave them something that was a couple years old.

Instead, I’ve adopted my own version of a date code. 2310 would be the conventional 2023, 10th week. Instead I use my age, and the number of weeks since my birthday. Easy for me to understand and place on the calendar, but meaningless to other unless I’ve let them in on the secret.
Click to expand...
I experimented with Julian calendar but finally just stopped putting dates.
Lennart Delin said:
Also I don´t understand people using a branding iron. Would you use that for an oil painting?


It is like the fact my signature may not be the most readable after 50 years taking verbal scripts over the phone. Now I would like to see how you brand a canvas after painting.
Click to expand...
 
Darryl Fective said:
I started off using Sharpie, but moved up to a dental handpiece. My handwriting isn't great, so I'd go over printouts in red ink attached with double-sided tape. I bought a Laserpecker Pro to burn in a logo and have been using it for other things as well.
Click to expand...
The Laser Pecker makes it pretty easy to sign. I just wish their app was more user friendly.
 
I'm becoming intrigued by the Laserpecker. Not sure which model would be best for signing the bottom of bowls. I also like Darryl's art on the side of the goblet. Do you think it would be possible to fake fractals on the side of a bowl? I really like the patterns, but they're clearly not worth dying for!
 
It depends on your budget. I bought the Laserpecker 1 and am happy with it for what I do. You can't look at the laser so the LP1 comes with a set of goggles. The LP2 has a cone that protects the viewer. Much more convenient. The LP4 can do metal. They range from $300 to $3,000 if I recall.

You could definitely do a fake fractal with a laser burner. How large you can make it will depend on the model.

Edit: Maybe I'll try a fake fractal burn tonight.
 
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